Audio for talking heads - on a budget??

[Kisaha]

@tupp maybe you can't tell the difference between microphones, me and @IronFilm participate in specialized sound forums, and if we copy-paste your statement here, would bring a lot of laughs, or rage, to the sound professionals around the world.

Also, I am working 19 years as a sound pro, have worked in 4 countries , and what you said just ain't true! As simple as that. Ignorance on a field you clearly do not comprehend ain't a sin, just you do not have to push your wrong perspective on a subject matter that you haven't mastered, especially on a forum that people help other people. I do not comment on most color correction and log posts here, but sound is literally my life, and before my professional career.

you are not "specifically" (what that does even mean?) an "audio person", so you can't understand that the critical point here ain't only, how "wide"  the reception is, but other qualities and characteristics of sound capturing, that do not apply to most people's limited knowledge. Sound (and Acoustics) are physics, it is science, it is also a form of art, that needs a lot of experience (much more than image, because you can not really "see" the sound, while image mistakes are visible to anyone) and advanced techniques.

I respect your opinion, but I would never say anything like that to someone interested in sound.

[tupp]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

@tupp maybe you can't tell the difference between microphones,

Almost every mic that I have seen on hand-held booms had an interference tube.  What kind of mic is that?

 

 

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

@IronFilm participate in specialized sound forums, and if we copy-paste your statement here, would bring a lot of laughs, or rage, to the sound professionals around the world.

They might stop laughing when the director and post production sound supervisor start asking why there is so much extraneous noise in the audio.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Also, I am working 19 years as a sound pro, have worked in 4 countries , and what you said just ain't true!

I have been in production for a little while.  By the way, I started out in audio recording.

 

I have worked on all kinds of film productions in various departments, from small corporate gigs to large features on stages and on location.  I am telling you exactly what I see audio pros use on such sets.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Ignorance on a field you clearly do not comprehend ain't a sin, just you do not have to push your wrong perspective on a subject matter that you haven't mastered, especially on a forum that people help other people.

[snip]

you are not "specifically" (what that does even mean?) an "audio person", so you can't understand that the critical point here ain't only, how "wide"  the reception is, but other qualities and characteristics of sound capturing, that do not apply to most people's limited knowledge.

When I was involved in audio recording, I was utterly ignorant about the different types of mics and recording techniques.  I also was completely unaware of certain brands/models that had more desirable response for certain applications.

 

Please enlighten those of us with limited knowledge with your mastery of the important mic properties in recording.  Specifically, please explain what is more important than the degree of directionality in regards to film audio production, given a quality, professional mic.

 

[Kisaha]

when you are buying a lens, you look only at the focal range? 

Anyway, I made myself clear, you have a different opinion, all opinions are good.

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, tupp said:

You should tell that to the pro's here in Hollywood.

 

Almost all the boom operators that I see here on set are using shotguns on their booms, both indoors and outdoors.  These operators are nimble and precise, and they want clean, dry audio.

 

I am not specifically and audio person, but I always use my boomed shotgun mic, and I have always gotten great results.  I would never want anything with wider reception.

Wow. Please *do* post exactly this on jwsoundgroup.net (which is the only forum dedicated just to production sound for film).

I'll get my popcorn ready. This will be good.

 

btw, if you just want the narrowest pick up pattern at all times, why not always only use a 816? (What do you use/own now?)

11 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

all opinions are good.

I don't buy into that PC / sjw nonsense, some opinions are clearly wrong.

[Kisaha]

@IronFilm

Yes, I said that his opinion is completely wrong, but I do not have the time/energy to do anything more than 2-3 replies per completely wrong posts! I gave a few examples, and made myself as clear as possible, I am sure people with increased critical judgement will do their homework, search, read, learn, and do the right thing!

For the rest, there is so much you can do. Not anyone can be saved :p

[Richard Bugg]

Here is an interesting comparison of the Rode NTG3 (shotgun) and the AT4053b (hypercardioid) in what seems to be a reflective room. 

[Richard Bugg]

18 hours ago, tupp said:

Almost all the boom operators that I see here on set are using shotguns on their booms, both indoors and outdoors. 

I'm wondering if this may be because many sets, whilst technically indoors, might typically be in large spaces, and therefore less prone to reverberation/reflected sound than, say a small bare room. In that case, the pickup pattern might be the most important aspect, rather than the mic's performance in a reverberant space. Hence, the shotgun mic might be preferred for "dry audio" in that setting. Would that be consistent with your experience?

[Anaconda_]

Richard, what do you think you're doing trying to bring rationality into a discussion that's basically turned into 'I'm more of a professional than you' contest. 

[IronFilm]

I would like to see tupp name the soundies and specific mics he sees used indoors all the time.

 

As likely he is either misclasifying the mics, or they're just amateur soundies.

 

As he is going against the grain here of what most people do here who specialize in location sound as their career.

 

An even superficial glance at jwsoundgroup.net could tell you that

[Drew Allegre]

I picked up an Octava Mk-012 on ebay (and yes, I researched the Chinese fakes).  It was supposed to be the "movie" kit with a hyper, but it came with a cardioid.  Still sounds pretty damn good to me in my tiny little 8x10 room that I call my office.  But I'm going to send it back or sell it, because I found another one on ebay with all three capsules for $200, and I had to jump on that.  Should have it by next week.  

So, my audio kit has gone from basically an H4n and whatever I can borrow to a Zoom F4, UWP-D11 kit, and the Mk-012.  Total expenses including cables, a decent pair of headphones, and a few odds and ends = $1300.

I'm confident that this project is going to sound significantly better than it would have with an H4n and AT875r.  Thank you folks!  The back and forth has actually been helpful.  Lots of things to consider from a lot of different perspectives.