External recording on the Sony a7S mark 2

[tomsemiterrific]

I own a Shogun, and was hoping to record 4k with it from my a7SII. But I can only figure out how to make it record 1080p.

So, can you record 4k from the a7SII on the Shogun?

Besides ATOMOS, is there an external 4k recorder that will work with the Sony?

[IronFilm]

For the cost and ergonomic clumsiness of it all,  I would not bother with external recording from the a7Smk2. You're not gaining 10bit from it

[tomsemiterrific]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

For the cost and ergonomic clumsiness of it all,  I would not bother with external recording from the a7Smk2. You're not gaining 10bit from it

True. But I'd only use it in studio--and I would be gaining Pro Res. Since I use Final Cut Pro Res is worth a lot in terms of ease of editing.

[Mattias Burling]

Final Cut can convert to Prores in the background while editing.

[Shirozina]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

For the cost and ergonomic clumsiness of it all,  I would not bother with external recording from the a7Smk2. You're not gaining 10bit from it

You are gaining 4.2.2 colour and a much better codec which won't show compression artefacts (which people wrongly assume is an 8bit problem) This will allow you to shoot S-Log and not have smooth tones like skies fall apart (banding) when you apply a LUT / grade it later like it does with the internal codec. It's a clumsy solution though......

[tomsemiterrific]

7 hours ago, Shirozina said:

You are gaining 4.2.2 colour and a much better codec which won't show compression artefacts (which people wrongly assume is an 8bit problem) This will allow you to shoot S-Log and not have smooth tones like skies fall apart (banding) when you apply a LUT / grade it later like it does with the internal codec. It's a clumsy solution though......

Absolutely right. The Shogun (Flame, etc) improve color info and image quality similar to the way superior components of an external audio recorder improves sound quality.

Not all that awkward a solution if you're just using it in studio.

[matthere]

The videodevices Pix range of 4K recorders are also a more robust option than the Atomos recorders.

[tomsemiterrific]

4 hours ago, matthere said:

The videodevices Pix range of 4K recorders are also a more robust option than the Atomos recorders.

Not familiar with those products.

[matthere]

Hope this helps, you don't get 4K 60 on the Pix but you get sound device's audio quality the build quality is amazing, will last a lifetime.

[Shirozina]

17 hours ago, matthere said:

The videodevices Pix range of 4K recorders are also a more robust option than the Atomos recorders.

I 'upgraded' from a shogun to a PIX-E but If I needed an external recorder again I'd get the inferno as it has a much brighter screen so it's usable outside and it can also do 60fps. Likely VideoDevices will upgrade the PIX-E's with a high NIT screen and 60fps at some point....

[tomsemiterrific]

Hi, everyone, and thanks for contributing to help me solve my issue.

I talked to Atomos today, and after a bit of back and forth the guy asked me to check my HDMI cable--and see if it worked for 4k.

Now this seemed futile to me, because I KNEW it did.

But I pulled out my XC15 Canon to test the cable and BOOM, the Shogun was recording 4k like a top!!

Back to the Sony--Bupkis. 

But I did recall I had another micro HDMI cable, so,.....  just for laughs I decided to try it--and BLAM!!! The Shogun screen lit up with the Sony 4 K and I was recording on SSDs. 

So, here's the deal. Just because a mini or micro HDMI feeds 4k into your external recorder for one camera or brand of camera does not mean it will feed 4 k into another. 

Capisce?!?

Try to remember this...because it will be on the test.

[jax_rox]

On 20/10/2017 at 4:22 PM, Mattias Burling said:

Final Cut can convert to Prores in the background while editing.

Transcoding XAVC-S to ProRes is entirely different to originating in ProRes.

On 20/10/2017 at 5:57 PM, Shirozina said:

You are gaining 4.2.2 colour and a much better codec which won't show compression artefacts (which people wrongly assume is an 8bit problem) This will allow you to shoot S-Log and not have smooth tones like skies fall apart (banding) when you apply a LUT / grade it later like it does with the internal codec. It's a clumsy solution though......

Yes, better chroma sub-sampling and a far superior codec are nothing to sneeze at. ProRes is one of the best codecs out there. That said, banding is a direct result of limited bit-depth. Compression artefacts will clear up, and by virtue of recording in a 10-bit 'space' (even though the signal is limited to 8-bit), you may find banding clears up to some extent, but banding in and of itself is a result of bit depth not compression.

7 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

Just because a mini or micro HDMI feeds 4k into your external recorder for one camera or brand of camera does not mean it will feed 4 k into another. 

I've never encountered this before. How strange. Good to know!

[IronFilm]

On 10/21/2017 at 8:25 PM, matthere said:

Hope this helps, you don't get 4K 60 on the Pix but you get sound device's audio quality the build quality is amazing, will last a lifetime.

Yes, this is a strong point in favor of the Video Devices equipment over Atomos:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1140405-REG/video_devices_pix_lr_xlr_audio_interface_for.html

Also, Video Devices is the same company as Sound Devices, and I can say both of my pieces of Sound Devices gear is built like a tank (MP1 & 552). 

8 hours ago, tomsemiterrific said:

But I did recall I had another micro HDMI cable, so,.....  just for laughs I decided to try it--and BLAM!!! The Shogun screen lit up with the Sony 4 K and I was recording on SSDs. 

Wow, that is weird :-o

[tomsemiterrific]

3 hours ago, jax_rox said:

I've never encountered this before. How strange. Good to know!

Yes. Me neither. I called the Atomos tech who helped me earlier and told him about the HDMI 4K issue.  He said it must have been some impedance difference that was causing it. It matters not. What matters is knowing about this in purchasing a mini-4k HDMI to standard HDMI cable.  Try before you buy if possible. Not sure you can tell by cost. The one that worked on the Canon but not on the Sony was a bit more expensive and more robust in build. So...beauty is only skin deep it seems. 

[Shirozina]

On 24/10/2017 at 4:42 AM, jax_rox said:

but banding in and of itself is a result of bit depth not compression.

 

Don't agree - at the very least it's a combination of the 2. 

[jax_rox]

On 25/10/2017 at 6:25 PM, Shirozina said:

Don't agree - at the very least it's a combination of the 2. 

Banding is the result of lower bit depth, though that banding will look worse when it's highly compressed. So, sure more highly compressed footage will make banding look worse. But the reason you have banding in the first place is due to lower bit depth (i.e. available 'steps').

[stephen]

Question for Video Devices PIX-E5 owners and users. How good is the screen for outdoor usage? Is it comfortably usable with some form of hood ? Read conflicting reports. Some say it’s OK, other say it’s not usable. Trying to decide between Video Devices PIX-E5H and Atomos Ninja Flame. Basically would prefer the smaller size and weight of PIX-E5H but will 5 inch and 500 nit of brightness do the job?  Atomos Ninja Flame is bigger and bulkier but everybody is saying screen is awesome and usable in daylight even without hood.

[Shirozina]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

Question for Video Devices PIX-E5 owners and users. How good is the screen for outdoor usage? Is it comfortably usable with some form of hood ? Read conflicting reports. Some say it’s OK, other say it’s not usable. Trying to decide between Video Devices PIX-E5H and Atomos Ninja Flame. Basically would prefer the smaller size and weight of PIX-E5H but will 5 inch and 500 nit of brightness do the job?  Atomos Ninja Flame is bigger and bulkier but everybody is saying screen is awesome and usable in daylight even without hood.

Needs the hood and even then difficult to see in bright sunlight. Likely they will bring out a replacement at some point but as of now I'd put up with the larger size of the flame to get the usability outside and if you have a GH5 the 10bit 4.2.2 60p. Although I 'upgraded' from the original Shogun to get the PIX-E as I wanted something smaller the fact is that the 7" screen is a lot easier to use for focusing.