Addressing some of the myths around Sony a6300-MINI a7sII??!??

[flip21]

Hi there,

First of all let me just say that I'm a proud owner of both the Samsung NX500 and the NX30. I use both cameras to shoot video. I don't care about stills.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Samsung NX1 is the best APSc camera out there... in good light... however I am looking for the best and cheapest APSc camera, that shoots 4K video in extreme low light conditions (6400 ISO and above). I don't have money for neither the A7s II nor the A7s. But I once heard that there is a camera out there, called the A6300, that is a kind of mini-A7s II, but cheapper ;). Is it? On some Youtube videos it seems like it is, on others it doesn't... 

So I have some final questions about the SonyA6300.

1st: does it overheats? I know it does, but does it overheats only if  you shoot 4K video continuously, for 20 minutes or so? If I shoot small 5 minutes MAX clips, or takes, will it still overheats? If it it overheats, how long does it takes to cool down? Does the camera also overheats in 1080p?

2nd: Is the 1080p 60fps video that bad and soft? Is it worse than, for instances, the NX30, or the than Sony A6000? Is it less sharper than these two? Why?

3th: Why do people say so many bad things about the kit lense of the A6300? Is it worst than the samsung 18-55 kit lens?

4th: how does the EOSHD Pro colors 3 work? Do I have to install it in the camera? How do you do that? Is it added in post?

5th: How much costs a speed booster?

6th: does  the SONY SEL5018 50MM F1.8 OIS delivers  the same quality as the Samsung NX 45mm, but with OIS?

Thanks

[IronFilm]

If you want an a7S mk2 which is cheaper (understandable! As the a7Smk2 is so expensive, you start to ask yourself, why not just get a real camera like the FS5?!), then go get yourself the Panasonic GH5!

BONUS: you won't need to put up with the compromises that the A6300 has! (indeed, arguably the GH5 is better than the a7S mk2) 

[jax_rox]

The GH5 is hardly the best choice for low light. 

An A7sII that's cheaper is an A7s. How much do you really need 4K internal?

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, flip21 said:

I'm a proud owner of both the Samsung NX500

Radical alternative thought: don't buy another camera! :-o I know, it sounds sacrilegious, but it isn't so crazy. Especially if you're just an occasional amateur, then I'd recommend you sit out another round or two of camera upgrades.

However, if you're a professional who is out there getting paid with shoots 3 to 10 times a week, then yes it could start to make more sense to consider an upgrade. 

 

[IronFilm]

30 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

An A7sII that's cheaper is an A7s. How much do you really need 4K internal?

Indeed, if a person really really NEEDS extreme lowlight capabilities, on a tight budget, then the a7S mk1 secondhand is a solid buy. (although you're giving up more than just internal 4K, for example IBIS)


 

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, jax_rox said:

The GH5 is hardly the best choice for low light. 

 

Well, seeing as this thread is titled "...addressing some of the myths around..." let's address some of those with the GH5/MFT!

Should stating "lowlight" be enough to rule out the GH5? Of course not! 
Because it is very likely the GH5's lowlight capabilities is sufficient for the asker's needs. 
It is good to remember some historical context, remember how excited everyone was about how good the 5Dmk2 was in lowlight? (a camera which I don't regard as superior to a GH1+speedbooster combo) Of course now the 5Dmk2 is seen as being "bad" in lowlight by 2017 standards. 

But then again the MFT world hasn't stood still either since the original MFT camera the GH1 either, which each model (GH2/GH3/GH4/GH5) taking strides forward in improvements in lowlight since the previous model (that is a lot of steps of improvement! We're up to the GH5 now).

Look at this shot at night with the old Panasonic GH2 for instance with only practical lighting:

Is it perfect? No. 
Is it unacceptable? No.

 

I think in this day in age, there is no reason in 2017 to be against any of the current cameras due primarily to its low light capabilities. Unless you're in some niche scenario, such as say you are doing a one man doco of homeless people living in underground sewers?! But even then, I'd happily use say my D5200 with a Sigma 18-35mm f1.8, if that is all I had available to me. 

 

[jax_rox]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

for example IBIS

I shot on my A7s extensively for three years before upgrading to the II and I can't say that I was ever lamenting the lack of IBIS. Certainly, if it was a choice over IBIS or low light, I'd go wit low light personally (at least in the case of A7sII) despite the fact I agree with: 

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

there is no reason in 2017 to be against any of the current cameras due primarily to its low light capabilities

It's a rare situation that I shoot over 3200ISO. Too much obsession with paper specs these days. 

That said, the sensor size of the A7sII is what secures it for me. And the benefit of its low light abilities is that you can shoot at 800, 1600, 3200 ISO very cleanly, not something you can do much on other DSLRs. That's a much more useful feature than being able to shoot a mess of noise at 409,500 ISO.

[Deadcode]

20 hours ago, flip21 said:

Hi there,

First of all let me just say that I'm a proud owner of both the Samsung NX500 and the NX30. I use both cameras to shoot video. I don't care about stills.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Samsung NX1 is the best APSc camera out there... in good light... however I am looking for the best and cheapest APSc camera, that shoots 4K video in extreme low light conditions (6400 ISO and above). I don't have money for neither the A7s II nor the A7s. But I once heard that there is a camera out there, called the A6300, that is a kind of mini-A7s II, but cheapper ;). Is it? On some Youtube videos it seems like it is, on others it doesn't... 

So I have some final questions about the SonyA6300.

1st: does it overheats? I know it does, but does it overheats only if  you shoot 4K video continuously, for 20 minutes or so? If I shoot small 5 minutes MAX clips, or takes, will it still overheats? If it it overheats, how long does it takes to cool down? Does the camera also overheats in 1080p?

 Im shooting weddings with my A6300, overheat warning occured sometimes, but the camera never turned off itself. In 1080p/50p it does not overheat.

2nd: Is the 1080p 60fps video that bad and soft? Is it worse than, for instances, the NX30, or the than Sony A6000? Is it less sharper than these two? Why?

It has moire and aliasing. With proper settings it looks OK

3th: Why do people say so many bad things about the kit lense of the A6300? Is it worst than the samsung 18-55 kit lens?

Yes the 18-55 is sharper. The 16-50 can barely give you the 4K resolution. For the (used) price and size it's good

4th: how does the EOSHD Pro colors 3 work? Do I have to install it in the camera? How do you do that? Is it added in post?

If you buy it you will see. It's an in camera settings.

5th: How much costs a speed booster?

Metabones is about 800 eur, Viltrox is about 160 eur, zhongyi lens turbo ii is about 130. I would (and did) choose Viltrox

6th: does  the SONY SEL5018 50MM F1.8 OIS delivers  the same quality as the Samsung NX 45mm, but with OIS?

I dont know about NX 45mm, but i have the 50 1.8 OSS. It has good stabilization but the sharpness is poor till F2.8. For video it's fine even in wide open.

Thanks

Your Welcome

 

[flip21]

2 hours ago, Deadcode said:

 

Hi,

Thanks for your kind reply Deadcode  You address my concerns almost completely  . I don't shoot weddings, and long clips, so in this case, overheating won't be a problem, right? I shoot only small clips/takes... By the way, do you know if the camera overheats, how long one have to wait for it to cool down in a normal situation?

Do you have the A6300? I guess so. Do you by any chance have also the A7s? How do you compare the two? Can we say the A6300/A6500 is the best APSc camera for low light in video? Will it be comparable with the A7s, till 12800 ISO? I really love the Samsung colors, do you think I can get something similar out of the box, with no color correction in post, with the EOSPRO colors 3? I don't have time to cooler correct video

By the way, people say the A6300 is worst in low light, at 1080p. But I saw some videos, and it seems in 4K, the low light is similar to the A6000 1080p. Does this means, the A6000 is better in low light, than the A6300, at 1080p? Thanks

Again, thanks

Flip

PS: I also want to thank the other replyes, but I don't want the GH5. It is too much expensive, and the AF is bad for video, and the low light is worst than the A6300. I want the best bang for the buck. But there is so many stuff said about the A6300, that I don't really know what is the truth anymore. 

[Deadcode]

1 hour ago, flip21 said:

Hi,

Thanks for your kind reply Deadcode  You address my concerns almost completely  . I don't shoot weddings, and long clips, so in this case, overheating won't be a problem, right? I shoot only small clips/takes... By the way, do you know if the camera overheats, how long one have to wait for it to cool down in a normal situation?

I dont know how long you have to wait because i never experianced actual overheating. Tests on the youtube shows you can record about an hour continuesly without shutdown

Do you have the A6300? I guess so. Do you by any chance have also the A7s? How do you compare the two? Can we say the A6300/A6500 is the best APSc camera for low light in video? Will it be comparable with the A7s, till 12800 ISO? I really love the Samsung colors, do you think I can get something similar out of the box, with no color correction in post, with the EOSPRO colors 3? I don't have time to cooler correct video

Yes i have a6300, and this is the best low light APSC camera available right now. ISO6400-8000 is fine, 12800 is a bit over the limits. Compared to A7s the A6300 lacks behind about 2 stop in ISO performance. But its far enough with F2.8 lens in almost every normal situation. Yes, eoshd pro color will give you very good colors out of cam.

By the way, people say the A6300 is worst in low light, at 1080p. But I saw some videos, and it seems in 4K, the low light is similar to the A6000 1080p. Does this means, the A6000 is better in low light, than the A6300, at 1080p? Thanks

A6300 oversamples 4K video from the full 6K sensor. If you are using 1080p it oversamples from a line skipped 13MP area... The difference in noise is about 2 stops, ISO6400 is crap in 1080p mode. The usable range is ISO100-1600 in 1080p and 100-6400 in 4K. The a6300 still performs better in terms of noise in 1080p compared to a6000 thanks to the temporal noise reduction

 

1 hour ago, flip21 said:

Again, thanks

Flip

PS: I also want to thank the other replyes, but I don't want the GH5. It is too much expensive, and the AF is bad for video, and the low light is worst than the A6300. I want the best bang for the buck. But there is so many stuff said about the A6300, that I don't really know what is the truth anymore. 

 

[ade towell]

the Sony 35mm 1.8 oss is a great lens for the a6300 .Use the kit lens for the wide and use the image zoom on the 35mm to get a pseudo 50mm field of view

[arson519]

the number one thing i hated about my a6300 was battery life it seemed i needed to change batteries every 30 minutes just having it on quickly drained batteries. i did not experience overheating i dont shoot long takes. once you have ibis you never want to go back 

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, flip21 said:

PS: I also want to thank the other replyes, but I don't want the GH5. It is too much expensive, and the AF is bad for video, and the low light is worst than the A6300. I want the best bang for the buck. But there is so many stuff said about the A6300, that I don't really know what is the truth anymore. 

If you want the best bang for buck then I'd say there is two core choices:

A) stick with what you have now (maximum bang for buck! You're getting great results from ZERO spent)

B) Panasonic G80/G85 (king of bang for buck out of the current models from all the manufacturers)

[flip21]

Panasonic mirrorless cameras AF is unusable for video. I want a good low light camera that also offers good low ligh video AF. Unfortunatelly Panasonic is having a hard time implementing it on their cameras

[Mark Romero 2]

I have owned an a6300 since about August of 2016. I also have an a6000. These are a few observations that I have, and that others in various Sony forum groups seem to share.

1) The a6300 probably has the sharpest 4K footage around. Maybe the D850 footage is sharper??? But for APS-C cameras, for pure resolution, I don't know if any other camera beats it.

2) The high-iso / low light performance is probably the biggest reason (along with the excellent resolution) to buy one over other cameras.

3) The 4k seems to me to have better moire handling than the GH5 or the D7500 / D500 in the sample I have seen, but I would try to verify that.

4) The 1080p is significantly worse than the 4K footage, but I don't know if it is really worse than most 1080p cameras. Some people say that it is worse than the 1080p footage of the a6000. Some other people say that the 1080p footage of the a6300 gets better if you DON'T use the XAVC S codec and instead use a codec with a lower bit rate.

5) The screen of the a6300 is highly reflective. It also dims when shooting 4K. They released firmware 2.0 to help reduce (not eliminate, but help reduce) overheating. Now with firmware 2.0 I think the screen gets EVEN DIMMER. It is very hard for me to see in bright conditions.

6) I have experienced overheating a couple of times. One time when it was about 85F outside (about 30C) and I was trying to shoot 4K video. I do tend to shoot short video clips (I am a real estate photographer / videographer) and my video shooting workflow is like this:

Set up tripod / slider -> pan back and forth / slide back and forth for 10 seconds -> review footage -> move tripod to new location -> repeat process.

So even though I only shoot for 10 seconds or so max before moving to a new spot and setting up again, my a6300 overheated in about 15 minutes time.

Worse than that, I then switched to my a6000 to shoot some 1080p outdoors and after about 15 minutes the a6000 overheated, too!!!

So I waited around and probably after about 20 minutes time I was able to use the a6300 again but I only used for about another 6 minutes before it overheated again.

This was BEFORE the new 2.0 firmware. So now it will probably do a bit better.

Another time the a6300 overheated on me when again it was about 85 degrees outside and this time when I was shooting STILLS. I shoot stills with the LCD 99% of the time (I almost never ever use the EVF).

7) Sony colors are kind of weird. You will most likely need to either purchase something like the Pro Color PDF or learn a lot about the different color spaces. 

8) Sony a6300 controls are... different. Some people HATE them. Personally, I hated them when I first got the camera because I was use to photographing with Nikon D750 and D7000. Recently I broke my a6300 and I used my Nikon cameras again (for stills) and I soon discovered that it was hard to switch back to Nikon. The a6300 has a control dial on the back that does four or five different things (exposure compensation / ISO / drive mode / screen display settings / focus point selection are the defaults, I think), and although you might press the wrong part of the dial and end up adjusting ISO when you meant to adjust drive mode, it is so much easier (now) that to use the D750 where you have to use two hands (one to support the camera and another to both press down on a release lefer AND turn the drive mode button).

9) a6300 works excellent on a gimbal like the Zhiuyn Crane (although panasonic cameras do, too, as far as I know).

10) a6300 might have a bit better audio than Panasonic cameras??? No headphone jack, but people say the preamp on a6300 is better than preamp on GH5 / G85. But I would definitely research this.

11) For still photography - and for my type of work - my a6300 and Sony 10-18 is as good as my full-frame D750 and 18-35 AF-S G for all practical purposes.

I don't know if I can link to the videos on youtube, but Max Yuryev has a couple of videos comparing the GH5 to the a6500, and the g85 to the a6300 (I think) he uses both sony and panasonic cameras in his professional work. 

Also, regarding low light / high iso , you might want to look at this thread regarding how some forum members view the lowlight capabilities of their GH5 

 

 

[Mattias Burling]

1) The NX1 looks higher res at least to my eye, so does the GX80.
3) Ive never seen moire in any of them.

The rest sounds about right.

[Kisaha]

@Mark Romero 2 why do you have a second profile?!

this is a trap/troll topic from a well known DPR troll which has been banned multiple times there. He is on my ignore list, so I wouldn't like him to reply straight to me.

my reply goes to Mr Romero.

1. NX1

2. Sony a6300/6500 AND latest Fuji (apparently the same sensor)

3. 4. NX1, plus  -bonus-NX1 is at the top 3 of the least rolling shutter in 1080p. Also NX1 has No crop in high speed options, and Andrew did recently a comparison, giving 7/10 to the NX1 and 5/10 to the Sony.

5. 6. 7. 8. NX all the way! Can't even stress those differences enough, and I add the better consumption management and with bigger capacity batteries. Ah, full touch screen control with the best menu system/UI/wi if-Bluetooth-NFC in industry (Panasonic is catching up in remote control though)

9. That is subjective. I have used professionally the NX1 with Ronin gimbals (and AF) with great success. I am planning to buy a Crane soon, split between the V2 or 2.

10. NX1, plus headphone out.

11. NX1 has 28mgpxls BSI sensor, and the 12-24 and 10mm fish eye are 2 of my favorite 3 lenses. Sony doesn't have a native fish eye. I haven't used the UWZ. Sony is a great photo camera, but all the rest of the issues (ergonomics mainly, try to use a bigger lens on that one) and this and that would make that a tie, at least.

[IronFilm]

@flip21, Don't stress over AF.

I never use it!

And in all other ways, Panasonic is quite simply a better implementation. 

[Mark Romero 2]

Quote

 

1) The NX1 looks higher res at least to my eye, so does the GX80.
3) Ive never seen moire in any of them.

The rest sounds about right.

 

Thank you for the feedback. Good to know. 

[Mark Romero 2]

9 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

 

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

@Mark Romero 2 why do you have a second profile?!

I can't seem to log in to my ORIGINAL account anymore  I used the "Forgot Password" feature, and it says that the email I entered doesn't have an account...

my reply goes to Mr Romero.

1. NX1

2. Sony a6300/6500 AND latest Fuji (apparently the same sensor)

3. 4. NX1, plus  -bonus-NX1 is at the top 3 of the least rolling shutter in 1080p. Also NX1 has No crop in high speed options, and Andrew did recently a comparison, giving 7/10 to the NX1 and 5/10 to the Sony.

5. 6. 7. 8. NX all the way! Can't even stress those differences enough, and I add the better consumption management and with bigger capacity batteries. Ah, full touch screen control with the best menu system/UI/wi if-Bluetooth-NFC in industry (Panasonic is catching up in remote control though)

9. That is subjective. I have used professionally the NX1 with Ronin gimbals (and AF) with great success. I am planning to buy a Crane soon, split between the V2 or 2.

10. NX1, plus headphone out.

11. NX1 has 28mgpxls BSI sensor, and the 12-24 and 10mm fish eye are 2 of my favorite 3 lenses. Sony doesn't have a native fish eye. I haven't used the UWZ. Sony is a great photo camera, but all the rest of the issues (ergonomics mainly, try to use a bigger lens on that one) and this and that would make that a tie, at least.

Good to know. I am not familiar at all with the NX1 or the Fuji cameras, so I would certainly suggest that the OP (and anyone else reading this thread) certainly research them further.

As for the Panasonic (and the Nikon D7500 and the D500), despite being a Sony user, I would almost certainly recommend the Panasonic GH5 or G85 over the a6300 / a6500 for MOST users. This is just based on what I have "learned" from youtube videos from people I respect (Max Yuryev, Curtis Judd, the camera store) as well as from other posters on this forum.  

Off Topic: 

For me, personally, I do MOSTLY still photography but I am trying to get more and more video jobs, so the a6300 / a6500 still makes more sense (to me) over something like the GH5 based on the sample still quality I have seen, and the 4K of the a6300 / a6500 seems to have a bit better dynamic range and low light / high iso capability than the GH5 (maybe a stop and a half???), which to ME are important.

I believe you mentioned in a post recently about the difficulty of using the a6300 in the hot sun during a wedding in Greece (apologies if that wasn't you), and I could certainly imagine with my experience with the a6300 that scenario would be a nightmare with the a6300.