New Panasonic G9 - multiaspect sensor?

[PannySVHS]

1 hour ago, maxotics said:

I still miss my GM1.  I broke the mechanical shutter, then my daughter broke the screen.  Anyway, I just love the all around thinking of the Panny cameras.  BTW, I bought my daughter a Fuji X100.  She never used it.  She took my G6 and basically sleeps with it, even though I have a lot of better cameras in m opinion

Ahh, still love my G6, what a fun camera! GM1 is a beauty. I think it´s the prettiest Panasonic camera. If it only had a little wheel on the back like GF1, G6, etc. have.

If only my GF1 had that beautiful HD the GM1 has:) GF1 is another beautiful, classic looking camera. Weird, how details make a camera a standout design classic.

[Brian Williams]

4 hours ago, maxotics said:

My limited experience is the Olympus and Fuji 4K is nowhere close to the quality of the Panasonic cameras, like the G7.  So surprised you think their quality as good.  

I won't use an Olympus because the video still stinks.  And even though the Fujis have larger sensors, they still have, again in my opinion, sub-par video.

All this is predicated on my belief that Panny video is miles ahead of Olympus of course.  So curious what other's thoughts are.

  

 

Ok, fair enough, though have you read Andrew's reviews here for both the E-M1ii and X-T2? Both companies have had abysmal video up to now, but I think both have pulled it together with these two newest cameras. I have the Olympus now, it's video quality is easily as good as the G80. The X-T2 has the same sensor as the A6300, with it's X-Trans business added to it, and it's just as good as the Sony, just with better colors and the same crappy rolling shutter.

I've owned all four cameras and all had amazing video quality.

But if you're basing your displeasure with Olympus and Fuji on their past cameras, I can understand that.

 

[maxotics]

9 hours ago, Brian Williams said:

Ok, fair enough, though have you read Andrew's reviews here for both the E-M1ii and X-T2? Both companies have had abysmal video up to now, but I think both have pulled it together with these two newest cameras. I have the Olympus now, it's video quality is easily as good as the G80. The X-T2 has the same sensor as the A6300, with it's X-Trans business added to it, and it's just as good as the Sony, just with better colors and the same crappy rolling shutter.

I've owned all four cameras and all had amazing video quality.

But if you're basing your displeasure with Olympus and Fuji on their past cameras, I can understand that.

 

Thanks Brian!  Yes, my experience is past experience.  Interesting that Olympus finally has their act together.  I don't doubt you.  I did a little video with the X-T2 but found the autofocus inferior to the Sonys.  Is that wrong too?

[ntblowz]

Meanwhile I just got a gm5, it’s such a gem! The only tiny interchangeable camera with evf, but too bad market doesn’t accept it.

[kidzrevil]

I rather pick this up than a gh5 to be honest. 4K 60p with improved image processing over the gh5 AND better stabilization is a no brainer

[wolf33d]

I will pick it over GH5 too. 

Better stabilisation. Better AF in video according to first tests. And I am shooting 100% 4K60p. 

AND less expensive

[jonpais]

‘no brainer’ generally refers to questions that require little or no mental effort, so I agree that this is a no brainer - the GH5 is hands-down the better video camera. The GH5 outshines the G9 in just about every area when it comes to recording moving pictures: it’s got flat profiles like V-Log L and HLG, both offering two stops greater dynamic range than the linear photo styles, in addition to more flexibility in post. HLG firmly places the GH5 in the future, with many predicting HDR to have a greater impact than 4K. Even if you have no intention of ever delivering in HDR, HLG, like 4K, has other benefits, even if your deliverables are in SDR HD. On top of that, the GH5 has internal ALL-I 10 bit 4:2:2. It’s a world camera (not so the G9) with unlimited recording time. Also missing on the stills oriented G9 are 6K anamorphic mode at 24fps, master pedestal and many other features. For what it’s worth, the EVF and IBIS on the GH5 are already very good; but while the G9 has made improvements in these areas, it has taken a step backward with the smaller, lower resolution LCD. And when I’m not using an external monitor, I rely exclusively on the LCD for framing and focus.

[wolf33d]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

‘no brainer’ generally refers to questions that require little or no mental effort, so I agree that this is a no brainer - the GH5 is hands-down the better video camera. The GH5 outshines the G9 in just about every area when it comes to recording moving pictures: it’s got flat profiles like V-Log L and HLG, both offering two stops greater dynamic range than the linear photo styles, in addition to more flexibility in post. HLG firmly places the GH5 in the future, with many predicting HDR to have a greater impact than 4K. Even if you have no intention of ever delivering in HDR, HLG, like 4K, has other benefits, even if your deliverables are in SDR HD. On top of that, the GH5 has internal ALL-I 10 bit 4:2:2. It’s a world camera (not so the G9) with unlimited recording time. Also missing on the stills oriented G9 are 6K anamorphic mode at 24fps, master pedestal and many other features. For what it’s worth, the EVF and IBIS on the GH5 are already very good; but while the G9 has made improvements in these areas, it has taken a step backward with the smaller, lower resolution LCD. And when I’m not using an external monitor, I rely exclusively on the LCD for framing and focus.

Depends on your need. I guess for 95% of filmmakers, GH5 is definitely better. 

I am in the market for a 4K60p small camera and not more than $2K. The pros of GH5 over G9 for video you mentionned: 
VLOG: I do not use it in 4K60p 8bit
HLG: N/A in 4K60
ALLI and 10bit : N/A
Unlimited recording time: I never record for more than 1min
6K anamorphic: N/A for 4K60p 
Master Pedestal: never used that 

G9 on the other hand has Better AF / Better IBIS and less expensive. I will take that any day thanks. 

Again, depends on what you need. 

 

[kidzrevil]

@wolf33d same here ! I’ll neglect using half the gh5 features. HDR ? What am I shooting it for the two people with HDR tv’s i’ll pass. SRGB 16-235 luma still owns the lionshare of the tv market (I was just TV shopping btw lol). All I really need is the 4K @ 60fps  & the IBIS is worth its weight in gold. Also lets not forget the image processing of the sensor has been improved. If its anything like the jump in quality of the g7/g80 sensor over the gh4 im sold. Im cool with the 8bit recording its only like....16 million colors anyway right ? ?

also fun fact most of the TV’s on the market actually display up to 99% of srgb...some cheapers models cover even less than that ! I don’t think we’re missing out by skipping on the HLG wave for now

[leeys]

For you Americans, maybe having fixed 60hz is good enough; but I've been to enough places where I know I need to switch between 50/60hz. G9 not having that is kinda a downer, even if I don't use 90% of the GH5's capabilities.

[liork]

On 9.11.2017 at 8:50 PM, Don Kotlos said:

Lets not forget the power switch. I have no idea why Olympus thinks using both hands to turn on a camera is a good feature.

The E M1 II power switch can be assigned to the lever around the AEL button on the camera right side.

And, by the way, many Canon DSLR have a left side power switch but they are still the most popular today...

[jonpais]

The G86, scheduled for release in the first quarter of 2018.

[Orangenz]

No V-Log, HDR or anamorphic.

But it has Cine-D, Cine-V, 150MBps 4K 60, 180fps full HD.

And both 4K and full HD video are using full sensor width, full resolution read out then downsize

[jonpais]

‘no brainer’ implies that any thinking person would come to the same conclusion. That’s why nobody ever says, ‘it’s a no-brainer for me’. Naturally, if a videographer dislikes the idea of dozens of useful features all thrown in at practically no cost (in fact, I paid more for my GH4 when it was released than for my GH5), I wouldn’t dream of trying to change their mind. But it’s been my experience that several features on past cameras that I thought I’d seldom if ever need, or wasn’t even aware existed, later turned out to be invaluable. Concerning improvements in color reproduction, stabilization and focus acquisition in video, we won’t know anything until reviewers get their hands on the G9. My own experience tells me these changes, while desirable, will be very modest and incremental rather than jaw-dropping. 

As far as TV sets go, even though I’m the only one for miles around with a 55” OLED does not mean I can’t shoot HDR and enjoy it for my own personal pleasure. Incidentally, the cost of an OLED TV is around 20% what it cost five years ago (LG's first 55in OLED set, the 55EM970V, cost £10,000 when it launched in 2013), and prices continue to drop.

[kidzrevil]

Maybe it all comes down to why you use the camera. I don’t ever see you post content outside of test videos so Im taking your need for features with a grain of salt. No narratives, no short films,fashion stuff or other content just test videos so I can’t see how what you shoot and what you need applies to the general or even the professional user. Maybe testing tech is your thing ? I don’t shoot for my personal use, I shoot for profit or to entertain people but either way I aim for what works over whats new. All those features in the GH5 are great but half the people even going on about it dont even have the skill set to take advantage of the extra data in those files. Worse yet even though the camera is very forward thinking some of the GH5 headline features like HLG are only available on a miniscule amount of TV sets on the market today.

Imagine if someone owns a 3-5 year old display ? That feature will be wasted cause no one is going to be able to see it but you and only you. You’re supposed to shoot for the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator in todays market is a 1080p 8 bit SRGB display unless you know the delivery requires something specific.

You will shoot HLG with the understanding the end user is using an HLG compatible display. Most consumers do not have one and the sales #s for HLG tv’s aint quite flying off the roof. I can almost guarantee you most people on this forum are not using a wide color gamut 4k display with hdr. So knowing this it was definitely a no brainer. Idk why people say “no brainer”, maybe a young whipper snapper like me isn’t old enough to get some of these colloiqual terms but I said it because it didn’t even require a second thought. It was so obvious to me that the GH5 will be better for some people  who need the features but to me and what I shoot and who my clients are the features on the G9 emphasizes what works and focuses on currently available technology everyone could enjoy. Def a no brainer for me @jonpais

Again HLG is a great feature but by the time it becomes a standard there will be way more cameras on the market better than the gh5 that supports it. Sometimes being the first to do something aint always a good thing. The tech is too young, the market hasn’t even caught up to 4K as a consumer standard yet ??‍♂️

[fuzzynormal]

So, video on the G9 comes up a tad short compared to the GH5.  The video specs ain't as elaborate.  However, as far as I'm concerned, the claimed improvement of G9's IS to 6.5 stops might mitigate those perceived shortcomings.  If the G9 could perform closer to what Olympus offers in IS, then that alone makes it slightly superior for actually acquiring footage than a GH5.  Of course, that's my perception/preference based on how and what I typically shoot.

Personally, I'd take better IS over anything else.  Intense pixel peeping is for folks that want to do that.  So LOG and high bitrates for them is great.  I do think that with dslr shooters there's just way too much over-emphasis on the IQ minutia, and not enough practice of just plain old good shooting/composition.  I really doubt that I'll ever have a client in my world that complains about 12 stop vs. 13 stop dynamic range.  And, as long as it's the ballpark, they sure don't give a crap about skin tone either.  That sort of discrimination among low-budget productions is just unrealistic.  They will, however, recognize that a poorly shot video with crappy b-roll is a poorly shot video with crappy b-roll.  Bad shooting aesthetics is what it is.  If you can't manage to get the footage, and tell a good story with it, then what's the point if it's technically pristine?

The G9's auto focus is supposedly improved too, but that doesn't matter to me.  I shoot manual glass.

I'm more interested in what a camera is going to be able to do for me and my way of shooting while I'm in the field.  This is why I've always had a soft spot for my old Olympus EM5II.  Not great on specs, but just a good field camera that allowed me to do some insane stuff completely handheld.  While I appreciate Panasonic's attempt at IS and OIS, it's not near as good as what Olympus offers.  And, to be clear, IS isn't the end-all-be-all for shooting.  It's a tool and a preference.  Sometimes I like shooting handheld without IS; just depends on the project. 

These tools are cheap, so it comes down to "what can you offer me right now?"  I'm not really projecting using any camera beyond a year.  Why would I worry about some HDR tool if that's not even something I need to consider?

Now, as a current GH5 owner, I'm only using the GH5 within the same specs range as a G9.  No GH5 LOG modes or insanely high bitrates for me.  Thus, a G9 looks like a rather decent camera IMHO.  I'm not in the market for a camera right now, but if I was I'd give the G9 serious consideration...along with whatever Olympus can put up against it. 

[PannySVHS]

 

If it is the same old 24/28mpbs bitrate for HD in 24p to 60p, then for video the GH5 would stay the "no brainer" film camera for me. Even more, if HD is not at least up to par with G6 or G7 HD, as GX85 was two steps backwards in that regard.

[jonpais]

2 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

Maybe it all comes down to why you use the camera. I don’t ever see you post content outside of test videos so Im taking your need for features with a grain of salt. No narratives, no short films,fashion stuff or other content just test videos so I can’t see how what you shoot and what you need applies to the general or even the professional user.

Here's some of my personal work.

 

 

[kidzrevil]

Looks good  ! I love Fuji’s black and white color science ! None of this content requires any of the features of the GH5 though. Was any of this footage commissioned for a client or is it all personal work ? @jonpais

I got commissioned to shoot this last month. I had the option of renting a high end camera but the Panasonic G80 was more than sufficient for the shot list provided to me. 

this is my only point about the extra features of the GH5. As good as they are they will have little impact on the end product depending on the delivery. A Panasonic G9 would cover my personal needs especially the stabilization. Another stop and a half of stabilization would have a direct impact on my work. 10bit hlg would get lost in a project like this that is going to social media which you can expect will be viewed on phones and tablets. I do however see the importance of a GH5 I have friends that do VFX work so 10bit 422 is crucial to them. @jonpais

[mercer]

33 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Here's some of my personal work.

 

 

Damn Jon, put away that GH5 for a little while and pick up that X-T2. That Acros looks epic. If you throw on a little grain it will look like early press footage from the Vietnam War. Also please test out some 1080p ProRes F-Log with your BlackMagic Video Assist.

I’ve been looking for a second camera... maybe I should have a second look at the X-T20. Acros and Takumar lenses could be a killer combo.