Am I An Idiot??? (Going From D750 to a6500...)

[Mark Romero 2]

1 minute ago, mercer said:

Unsure, why this was quoted. This site acts funny sometimes. Anyway, I don’t know if you wrote this somewhere but what lenses do you own for either system or both? 

I still think the D850 may be the smartest investment for you, or a 5D IV if you’re interested in the Canon ecosystem at all. 

Well... I already started to sell off my Nikon lenses  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sold off the 18-35 G and sold off the 85 f/1.8 G and my Sigma 10-20. So right now I only have my 50mm f/1.8 G and a couple of DX lenses that I use on my D7000, which I am selling off as well.

For the Sony a6500 / a6000 I have the 10-18 (my bread and butter lens, 98% of my still photos are done with this lens, and about 75% of the video I shoot is with this lens), a couple of 16-50 kit lenses (one is a really bad copy), a 50mm f/1.8 OSS, a Sigma 30mm f/2.8 (not the f/1.4, but still a competent - if a little slow at f/2.8 - prime lens that is sharp).

I also have an 85mm f/2.8 SAM A-Mount lens that I use with an adapter.

I just picked up a  70-300 G original version A MOunt to use with an adapter but I am having some problems with it. Might just be human error, might be the lens, might be my adapter.

So that's kind of another reason to sell the D750 and just consolidate; I don't mind paying for lenses, I just don't want to have to pay for the same lenses for two different systems!

And almost as important is I don't want to have to keep track and organize two different systems. Especially as I will start to add video lights and maybe a filter or two. Plus I also have a drone (Phantom 3 Advanced), so keeping it to one camera system really is just going to make it that much easier to get me a bit more organized.

At least I hope it will help make me more organized...

[mercer]

I get that, it seems like you already know your answer... crazy or not.

I started with video and a t2i. I eventually bought an eos-m and for a good 2-3 years I was happy. And then I decided I needed 4K and since Canon is Canon, I had to look elsewhere. And after testing almost every brand of consumer 4K, my old eos-m videos were still amongst my favorite. I also had a D5500 for a while and that was the closest image I could find to the Canon as far as enjoyable colors, but it didn’t have IBIS and I still thought I needed 4K... so...

Eventually while deciding I was going to buy a GH5, I came across a 5D3 ML Raw video and I was hooked... Everything I loved about the Canon colors yet in Raw video... So instead of going with the new, shiny camera with every feature I could ever need, I spent more on a 5 year old camera... and I haven’t looked back.

Now I am just a hobbyist, so obviously you have to base your decision on other things, so selling off the D750 may make the most sense, but in the process you will probably miss those Nikon colors with every photo you process and every video you edit/grade.

But if I was doing RE or event work, I would be primarily concerned with AF, so I would most likely buy a Canon 80D and do as much work as possible until I could afford a 5D4 or a 1DXii.

Or I’d get an 80D and a C100ii and expand my business from two fronts. I would imagine a dedicated video camera could be a marketable package to potential clients?

[Mark Romero 2]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I get that, it seems like you already know your answer... crazy or not.

I started with video and a t2i. I eventually bought an eos-m and for a good 2-3 years I was happy. And then I decided I needed 4K and since Canon is Canon, I had to look elsewhere. And after testing almost every brand of consumer 4K, my old eos-m videos were still amongst my favorite. I also had a D5500 for a while and that was the closest image I could find to the Canon as far as enjoyable colors, but it didn’t have IBIS and I still thought I needed 4K... so...

Eventually while deciding I was going to buy a GH5, I came across a 5D3 ML Raw video and I was hooked... Everything I loved about the Canon colors yet in Raw video... So instead of going with the new, shiny camera with every feature I could ever need, I spent more on a 5 year old camera... and I haven’t looked back.

Now I am just a hobbyist, so obviously you have to base your decision on other things, so selling off the D750 may make the most sense, but in the process you will probably miss those Nikon colors with every photo you process and every video you edit/grade.

Yes, well the 5D Mk III did enter my mind for a moment or two, but the lack of a tilting screen (I photograph 95% at waist level) and the fact I would probably have to upgrade my gimbal from a Zhiyn crane to a Ronin M or Movi was kind of off-putting.

[leeys]

2 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Well... I am not sure I am going to do this job forever, but I do LIKE real estate photography a lot. Lucky for me I am in a higher priced market and charge reasonable rates. I am on the more higher priced end of photographers, and there is no telling what the future brings in terms of low priced competitors. So I do like to be prepared for the future. 

RE photography CAN be quite profitable, but it does come down to being good and efficient. The ability to move fast and meet deadlines is incredibly important because a lot of real estate agents are often quite disorganized and as a photographer you often get pushed back until the last moment while the cleaners are doing the last vacuuming or the stager is putting the last pillows on the couch.

Anyway, that's my feeling this morning. Who knows if I will change my opinions again by the afternoon

Hey, from one small freelancer to another; while it's good to specialise, don't get too caught up and miss on other opportunities.

Also, plenty of people will egg you on to get the shiniest and latest gear, from salespeople (a Phase One sales engineer's eyes lit up when I said I was freelance) to other forum-goers. Remember the difference: You're a business now, compared to amateurs who have the discretionary income to do so. Watch that bottom line and good luck!

[kidzrevil]

I think you are overthinking this. Maybe you should consider working on the basics like color, lighting and composition because those are both really good cameras and one is not gonna make your work look better than the other. The only thing you are going to get going between those cameras are a full frame aesthetic vs. super 35mm. Don’t be fooled by the legions of people that say Sony has bad color, they simply do not know how to grade properly or they picked the wrong profile. 

To answer your question though I have never shot with the nikon before but I seen excellent footage with it. I have an a6500 but I find it to be useless without a battery grip and a thumb rest accessory added to it because the ergonomics are terrible without it imo. The image quality (yup even in SLOG3 8bit) and the noise is almost non existent until you hit 1600-3200. It’s usable up to a very high iso like 6400 but its clean because of image processing. I think the a6500 covers the needs of most people BUT if you are doing this professionally you may want to keep the Nikon D750 because when a client or an agency asks you what you are shooting with they are going to google your camera model if they are unfamiliar. A “pro-sumer” camera has locked me out of certain jobs from agencies unfamilar with me or my work. So yeah keep the Nikon if you are doing pro work. Is the quality better ? No. 

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Yeah, I know a few people doing real estate stills with a D300 (12MP crop sensor) and a Sigma 10-20 (hardly the sharpest lens out there) and they do quite well for themselves. 

 

The friend I know who does the highest volume real estate (as in at times dozens and dozens of houses per week!) was up until a few months ago shooting them on 2x Nikon D700 bodies, also 12 megapixels. 

[noone]

For video away from what you are doing there is always weddings and parties I guess (not something I would want to do for pay- too nerve wracking).

There will be a LOT more wedding work here in Australia soon I think because of legalizing same sex marriage.

Kids parties?  Engagement parties?    Offering stills and video?

 

How do you find the 1/160 flash sync of the Sony and 1/200 of the Nikon?    Enough?     The other thing for me would be the 1/4000 max with each of them.    No problem indoors but I guess it depends on what the light is like there.

 

For architecture, I would keep looking for a "cheap" Canon 17mm F4 L TS-E and it works great with the FF Sony's (and ok with Canon DSLRs even).

[IronFilm]

14 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I like the D750, but I DO need a backup, and it kind of makes sense of I am going to do video in addition to stills to have an a6500 and an a6000 as a backup (or an a6300 as a backup) instead of a D750 and D5500 (I would get the model that has the touch screen for faster focusing). 

 

I wouldn't say there is that much of a dealbreaker for me personally with a Nikon D5200/D5300/D5500 vs a Sony a6000, and sticking with the Nikon brand has benefits for now. 

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Well... I am not sure I am going to do this job forever, but I do LIKE real estate photography a lot. Lucky for me I am in a higher priced market and charge reasonable rates. I am on the more higher priced end of photographers, and there is no telling what the future brings in terms of low priced competitors. So I do like to be prepared for the future. 

 

From having observed others in the real estate industry (as photographers, or videographers), my suggestion is in the long run to earn more and move up to focus on getting architectural / lifestyle shoots, plus coporate videos (or stils/portraits) for building related business (such as construction companies, or cabinet makers, etc). As they'll pay more than picks for just yet another real estate listing. 

16 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

RE photography CAN be quite profitable, but it does come down to being good and efficient. The ability to move fast and meet deadlines is incredibly important because a lot of real estate agents are often quite disorganized and as a photographer you often get pushed back until the last moment while the cleaners are doing the last vacuuming or the stager is putting the last pillows on the couch.

Agreed, from what I've heard you really need to nail your workflow down. As it is about doing a high volume (which is why real estate agents mucking you around can be a big problem! As it might muck with the rest of the day's schedule). 

16 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Anyway, that's my feeling this morning. Who knows if I will change my opinions again by the afternoon

hahaha

16 hours ago, mercer said:

I still think the D850 may be the smartest investment for you, or a 5D IV if you’re interested in the Canon ecosystem at all. 

Boggles the mind why a person would go for a 5Dmk4 over a D850 if they're already in the Nikon ecosystem :-/ 

14 hours ago, leeys said:

You're a business now, compared to amateurs who have the discretionary income to do so. Watch that bottom line and good luck!

Yes! Each gear purchase I make I try to think about what % is "for business" and what % is "hobby plaything for my own pleasure".

[Nikkor]

Nikon has d-lighting. I believe the new nikons have or will have this in 4K mode. This will give you a lot more DR than any crappy 8bit slog. 

[Don Kotlos]

6 hours ago, Nikkor said:

Nikon has d-lighting. I believe the new nikons have or will have this in 4K mode. This will give you a lot more DR than any crappy 8bit slog. 

That's a bit harsh and no d-lighting cannot be used in 4K mode. But the flat profile should give you enough dynamic range. 

If you know what you are doing 8bit slog can give you great results. 10bit would be better of course. 

[Mark Romero 2]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The friend I know who does the highest volume real estate (as in at times dozens and dozens of houses per week!) was up until a few months ago shooting them on 2x Nikon D700 bodies, also 12 megapixels. 

Yup, in 95% of the cases, 12MP is enough. Plus it speeds up the workflow so much more, and it takes up less hard drive space.

The one drawback (for me) of full frame is that you basically have to close down one stop more for the same depth of field that you would get with crop sensor, meaning I have to crank up my flash guns one stop higher to compensate. And I already use my flash guns pretty hard, so that is a bit of a trade-off.

I could just get an original a7s, shoot in 1080p internally, and probably use the a7s for stills as well. The only time i really NEED more than 12mp is when I have to crop in significantly for a view shot, and since I am in the hills above San Francisco and the Golden Gate bridge, well, there are lots of view shots to be had...

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I wouldn't say there is that much of a dealbreaker for me personally with a Nikon D5200/D5300/D5500 vs a Sony a6000, and sticking with the Nikon brand has benefits for now. 

Yeah, one fellow real estate photographer I know shoots stills on his D300 and video on his D7200. He seems to be fine with it.

I like Nikon a lot (I started with a D5000 for RE photography and then moved to D5100 and D7000 and D750). Just for the way I work, and with my bad back, I find the Sony is just a bit better for my style.

[Mark Romero 2]

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

From having observed others in the real estate industry (as photographers, or videographers), my suggestion is in the long run to earn more and move up to focus on getting architectural / lifestyle shoots, plus coporate videos (or stils/portraits) for building related business (such as construction companies, or cabinet makers, etc). As they'll pay more than picks for just yet another real estate listing. 

Agreed, from what I've heard you really need to nail your workflow down. As it is about doing a high volume (which is why real estate agents mucking you around can be a big problem! As it might muck with the rest of the day's schedule). 

hahaha

Boggles the mind why a person would go for a 5Dmk4 over a D850 if they're already in the Nikon ecosystem :-/ 

Yes! Each gear purchase I make I try to think about what % is "for business" and what % is "hobby plaything for my own pleasure".

Agreed with each of your points.

1 hour ago, Don Kotlos said:

That's a bit harsh and no d-lighting cannot be used in 4K mode. But the flat profile should give you enough dynamic range. 

If you know what you are doing 8bit slog can give you great results. 10bit would be better of course. 

Yeah, the D750 in flat profile has plenty of DR.

If I were ONLY shooting on either a tripod or a slider and I could live with the softish 1080p then I am pretty sure I would stick with the D750. I think... But I need to be fast so I would use a gimbal and the AF of the a6500 makes me feel it would have an advantage here.

As for slog... I obviously DON'T know what I am doing...

[Don Kotlos]

12 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

If I were ONLY shooting on either a tripod or a slider and I could live with the softish 1080p then I am pretty sure I would stick with the D750. I think... But I need to be fast so I would use a gimbal and the AF of the a6500 makes me feel it would have an advantage here.

As for slog... I obviously DON'T know what I am doing...

You don't need slog for most things. The Cine profiles are great with more than enough dynamic range. The Cine/Pro/sgamut3.cine colors work great and if you boost saturation a bit you can have a great straight out of the camera look.  

[Mark Romero 2]

6 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

You don't need slog for most things. The Cine profiles are great with more than enough dynamic range. The Cine/Pro/sgamut3.cine colors work great and if you boost saturation a bit you can have a great straight out of the camera look.  

Thanks for the suggestions.

[mercer]

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Boggles the mind why a person would go for a 5Dmk4 over a D850 if they're already in the Nikon ecosystem :-/ 

Well, Mark already said he has sold off most of his Nikkor, Nikon Mount lenses, so it is not entirely unreasonable to go to Canon... especially since refurbished 5D4s recently popped up on the Canon store, during a sale, for less than $2400. Best AF in business saves time. Also Canon lenses with IS are as good as Sony IBIS. So if he didn’t have the $3500 for a D850, he may have $2500 for a 5D4.

[Don Kotlos]

On 11/14/2017 at 8:54 AM, Geoff CB said:

Hard call. Loved the video on the D750 (use a A7rII now) but always go back and forth on buying a D750 for cheap. The 1080p isn't the same as 4K, but it has great DR, highlight rolloff, and the best Full Frame rolling shutter performance you can buy, making the motion cadence great. But my  A7r II has an image stabilizer,  4K, and most importantly, an EVF. 

You know that your A7rII has even faster rolling shutter in FF 1080p than D750 right? Also it offers much better resolution as well... 

[Mark Romero 2]

20 hours ago, noone said:

For video away from what you are doing there is always weddings and parties I guess (not something I would want to do for pay- too nerve wracking).

There will be a LOT more wedding work here in Australia soon I think because of legalizing same sex marriage.

Kids parties?  Engagement parties?    Offering stills and video?

 

How do you find the 1/160 flash sync of the Sony and 1/200 of the Nikon?    Enough?     The other thing for me would be the 1/4000 max with each of them.    No problem indoors but I guess it depends on what the light is like there.

 

For architecture, I would keep looking for a "cheap" Canon 17mm F4 L TS-E and it works great with the FF Sony's (and ok with Canon DSLRs even).

Thanks for the suggestions on drumming up business.

The 1/160th of a second flash sync speed of the a6500 (and the 1/200th of a second on the D750) are somewhat annoying. In essence, when i am photographing a room with a beautiful sunny view, I have to stop down to about f/11 and crank my speedlights all the way up in order to capture the view.

Even sometimes at 1/200th of a second I get banding with the flash on the D750, so that is kind of a wash between those two.

[Mattias Burling]

A backup X70 gives you 1/4000 flash sync speed at 28mm eq. Could be an option.

Otherwise, bracket.

[Trek of Joy]

19 hours ago, mercer said:

Also Canon lenses with IS are as good as Sony IBIS.

I've shot extensively with both, IMO when shooting video IBIS is vastly superior at stabilizing the image and reducing the micro jitters when shooting handheld. Plus the 5d4 file sizes, ugh. Though I would love DPAF on my a7rII, its not worth the mjpeg files for me.

On 11/16/2017 at 6:09 AM, Nikkor said:

Nikon has d-lighting. I believe the new nikons have or will have this in 4K mode. This will give you a lot more DR than any crappy 8bit slog. 

So shoot Cine 4/2 which has been shown in tests to have the same DR than slog, its just distributed in a different way and you don't have to overexpose then pull down highlights.