Am I An Idiot??? (Going From D750 to a6500...)

[PannySVHS]

 

Cine 2 and 4. Always nice it seems:)

[Mark Romero 2]

2 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

I've shot extensively with both, IMO when shooting video IBIS is vastly superior at stabilizing the image and reducing the micro jitters when shooting handheld. Plus the 5d4 file sizes, ugh. Though I would love DPAF on my a7rII, its not worth the mjpeg files for me.

So shoot Cine 4/2 which has been shown in tests to have the same DR than slog, its just distributed in a different way and you don't have to overexpose then pull down highlights.

I am terrible at the maths, so I don't want to swear by this, but I BELIEVE that Sony says SLOG has a pretty significant dynamic range boost over the various Cine gammas:

http://helpguide.sony.net/di/pp/v1/en/contents/TP0000909109.html

Although I will defer to you if real-world experience is not in line with Sony's documentation.

[mercer]

2 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

I've shot extensively with both, IMO when shooting video IBIS is vastly superior at stabilizing the image and reducing the micro jitters when shooting handheld. Plus the 5d4 file sizes, ugh. Though I would love DPAF on my a7rII, its not worth the mjpeg files for me.

I had the a6500 for a while and felt the IBIS was very good, especially at fixing the RS issue, but then when I bought my 5D3 and 24-70mm f4, I was blown away by how steady that lens is. The IS on that lens gets great reviews, so I just figured it was a one off. But then I bought the 35mm f/2 and was blown away yet again by how steady the lens is. With a strap and my elbows at my sides, it’s damn near rock solid. With that being said, my comment wasn’t intended to be a pissing match between Canon IS lenses and Sony IBIS, I just wanted to express that I know IBIS is tempting but the OIS on Canon lenses is pretty impressive and often goes unmentioned.

I understand why people are annoyed with the large file sizes of mjpeg, but since storage is pretty much the cheapest of “accessories,” it never really bothered me much. Anyway just throwing it out there in case Mark hasn’t considered it. 

Honestly Mark would probably do well with almost any camera on the market since I would imagine most real estate videos are watched on cell phones.

If I were shooting real estate, weddings, trade shows, or any event really, I would think AF would be one of the most important features needed, so I would stop reading this site and go buy a Canon.

[Trek of Joy]

9 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

I am terrible at the maths, so I don't want to swear by this, but I BELIEVE that Sony says SLOG has a pretty significant dynamic range boost over the various Cine gammas:

http://helpguide.sony.net/di/pp/v1/en/contents/TP0000909109.html

Although I will defer to you if real-world experience is not in line with Sony's documentation.

There are tests floating around on youtube/vimeo that show otherwise. Being able to shoot at base ISO's rather than the sky high ISO's required for Slog, and not needing to use LUT's makes life a lot easier too - but my grading skills are pretty basic. The DR curve is distributed different in Slog compared to Cine, but they both produce about 12 useable stops. Sony's claims of 14+ stops is just not true.

4 minutes ago, mercer said:

I had the a6500 for a while and felt the IBIS was very good, especially at fixing the RS issue, but then when I bought my 5D3 and 24-70mm f4, I was blown away by how steady that lens is. The IS on that lens gets great reviews, so I just figured it was a one off. But then I bought the 35mm f/2 and was blown away yet again by how steady the lens is. With a strap and my elbows at my sides, it’s damn near rock solid. With that being said, my comment wasn’t intended to be a pissing match between Canon IS lenses and Sony IBIS, I just wanted to express that I know IBIS is tempting but the OIS on Canon lenses is pretty impressive and often goes unmentioned.

I understand why people are annoyed with the large file sizes of mjpeg, but since storage is pretty much the cheapest of “accessories,” it never really bothered me much. Anyway just throwing it out there in case Mark hasn’t considered it. 

Honestly Mark would probably do well with almost any camera on the market since I would imagine most real estate videos are watched on cell phones.

If I were shooting real estate, weddings, trade shows, or any event really, I would think AF would be one of the most important features needed, so I would stop reading this site and go buy a Canon.

Storage isn't the issue for me - though it does eat card space awful quick. Its how taxing the large files are on your computer when you have 100 clips, transitions, slight exposure/color corrections, titles and such on a timeline. 

Not trying to start a flame war either.

Cheers

[Mark Romero 2]

15 minutes ago, mercer said:

I had the a6500 for a while and felt the IBIS was very good, especially at fixing the RS issue, but then when I bought my 5D3 and 24-70mm f4, I was blown away by how steady that lens is. The IS on that lens gets great reviews, so I just figured it was a one off. But then I bought the 35mm f/2 and was blown away yet again by how steady the lens is. With a strap and my elbows at my sides, it’s damn near rock solid. With that being said, my comment wasn’t intended to be a pissing match between Canon IS lenses and Sony IBIS, I just wanted to express that I know IBIS is tempting but the OIS on Canon lenses is pretty impressive and often goes unmentioned.

I understand why people are annoyed with the large file sizes of mjpeg, but since storage is pretty much the cheapest of “accessories,” it never really bothered me much. Anyway just throwing it out there in case Mark hasn’t considered it. 

Honestly Mark would probably do well with almost any camera on the market since I would imagine most real estate videos are watched on cell phones.

If I were shooting real estate, weddings, trade shows, or any event really, I would think AF would be one of the most important features needed, so I would stop reading this site and go buy a Canon.

Thanks for the input. It is always good to get a diverse range of opinions on things.

Is the dual pixel AF that much better than the AF on the a6500???

12 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

There are tests floating around on youtube/vimeo that show otherwise. Being able to shoot at base ISO's rather than the sky high ISO's required for Slog, and not needing to use LUT's makes life a lot easier too - but my grading skills are pretty basic. The DR curve is distributed different in Slog compared to Cine, but they both produce about 12 useable stops. Sony's claims of 14+ stops is just not true.

Storage isn't the issue for me - though it does eat card space awful quick. Its how taxing the large files are on your computer when you have 100 clips, transitions, slight exposure/color corrections, titles and such on a timeline. 

Not trying to start a flame war either.

Cheers

Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I kind of figured Sony might be over-optimistic with their data  claims.

And yes, being able to shoot at ISO 200 is much better than ISO 800 (which is base ISO for Slog 2 on the a6300 /a6500). Plus, I am a simple man with simple grading abilities, and slog 2 does not seem to like pedestrian colorists such as myself...

[mercer]

24 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for the input. It is always good to get a diverse range of opinions on things.

Is the dual pixel AF that much better than the AF on the a6500???

DPAF is basically like having a Hollywood focus puller walking around with you. Sony’s PDAF is decent but they’re still at least a product cycle behind Canon’s DPAF. And since Canon isn’t going to stop developing their AF capabilities, I don’t know if any company will ever catch up.

Honestly, I don’t really like saying you need to buy this camera or that camera... everybody’s needs are different. But if you’re uncertain between the D750 and the a6500, then maybe explore other options. And there are plenty of options out there. I mentioned Canon because of their AF and color science. If you’re happy with the a6500, stick with that. I have no horse in this race.

44 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Storage isn't the issue for me - though it does eat card space awful quick. Its how taxing the large files are on your computer when you have 100 clips, transitions, slight exposure/color corrections, titles and such on a timeline. 

Not trying to start a flame war either.

Cheers

I hear ya... I edit ML Raw to ProRes with 2014 MacBook Air...

I’ve always converted my footage to ProRes, every footage I’ve ever shot with every camera I ever shot with, and they work beautifully without issue on FCPX. So even old t2i footage had huge file sizes but they were optimized for FCPX, so it was never an issue. Do you edit native files?

[Don Kotlos]

Just now, mercer said:

DPAF is basically like having a Hollywood focus puller walking around with you. Sony’s PDAF is decent but they’re still at least a product cycle behind Canon’s DPAF. And since Canon isn’t going to stop developing their AF capabilities, I don’t know if any company will ever catch up.

It is not as far off as you might think. Max Yuryev did some head tracking comparisons between C200, A6500 and GH5 and I would say the A6500 did pretty well.

The AF from A9 & A7rIII is supposed to be even better than A6500. 

 

[jonpais]

People might quibble about the methodology, but it looks like a draw to me.

[mercer]

13 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

It is not as far off as you might think. Max Yuryev did some head tracking comparisons between C200, A6500 and GH5 and I would say the A6500 did pretty well.

The AF from A9 & A7rIII is supposed to be even better than A6500. 

 

I saw that and yes it isn’t bad but not quite as smooth as the Canon... especially with DPAF using a considerable amount less of AF points than the Sony variant.

[jonpais]

I wish I hadn't seen that comparison, is there any way to make me forget? Must not buy the a6500, must not buy the Sony, don't buy another camera... OMG!

[mercer]

1 minute ago, jonpais said:

I wish I hadn't seen that comparison, is there any way to make me forget? Must not buy the a6500, must not buy the Sony, don't buy another camera... OMG!

Buy a Canon and be happy with the colors and the AF. ?

[jonpais]

????

[mercer]

@jonpais have you ever owned a Canon? Just curious, I know you’re a Panny guy who has dabbled with Fuji, but I don’t remember hearing if you started shooting with Panny, or like many of us, started with a t2i?

[jonpais]

@mercer My very first digital camera was a Canon S90. I loved it.

[Trek of Joy]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I hear ya... I edit ML Raw to ProRes with 2014 MacBook Air...

I’ve always converted my footage to ProRes, every footage I’ve ever shot with every camera I ever shot with, and they work beautifully without issue on FCPX. So even old t2i footage had huge file sizes but they were optimized for FCPX, so it was never an issue. Do you edit native files?

I'm traveling right now, transcoding takes a loooong time on my travel machine. Native files are slow on my MacBook, but much easier to deal with. When I'm back home in a couple months and working on my hot-rodded iMac, I'll convert to prores first.

Cheers

Chris

[jonpais]

@mercer Glenn, have you ever viewed your footage on a 55” television? 

[mercer]

3 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@mercer Glenn, have you ever viewed your footage on a 55” television? 

No, unfortunately I do not have a 55” tv or access to one. 

[jonpais]

@mercer Well, if you ever get the chance to... I was skeptical myself when @Vesku used to talk about watching on a large screen, and I think Ken Ross also mentioned it: but I had a 40” HD TV sitting in my apartment for years and never watched it. Since getting the LG however - it’s like you’ve never seen your work before - the picture doesn’t fall apart at all, on the contrary, to use a cliched phrase, it’s like a veil is lifted. My attitude now is, forget a new camera body, invest in a decent display, because what’s the point of having a great sensor if you’re restricted to watching your clips on a tiny laptop? A phenomenal set can be had for little more than the price of an a6500 and kit lens, I’m sure. Anyhow, something to think about. There’ve been countless pages here devoted to gear, that’s what this site is about - but very little attention has been paid to how we actually view the content once we’ve finished a project. 

[mercer]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

@mercer My very first digital camera was a Canon S90. I loved it.

My point being there is such a stigma about Canon cameras on these forums when Canon DSLRs have and still are being used on network television. I work in the trade show industry and easily 95% of all trade show videographers use Canon DSLRs or C100s. I’ve seen a few Sony’s and strangely, one BlackMagic Pocket. Obviously this is anecdotal, but I am just referencing what I’ve noticed on the trade show floor. And I would bet that other than this microcosm of pros, the majority of small budgeted videography is shot on Canon cameras... be it DSLRs or the C series. 

But back to the point, it is not my intention to persuade Mark into buying a Canon, I was merely stating there are options and if color and AF are top priorities, then Canon is definitely worth looking into.

I only asked you if you’ve ever used a Canon is because I know how obsessed you are with color, so I thought you may enjoy testing out a Canon... be it an 80D or a 5D4. Maybe hold off on another couple Veydra lenses and give a Canon camera a shot... it would make a great blog post for you ?.

9 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@mercer Well, if you ever get the chance to... I was skeptical myself when @Vesku used to talk about watching on a large screen, and I think Ken Ross also mentioned it: but I had a 40” HD TV sitting in my apartment for years and never watched it. Since getting the LG however - it’s like you’ve never seen your work before - the picture doesn’t fall apart at all, on the contrary, to use a cliched phrase, it’s like a veil is lifted. My attitude now is, forget a new camera body, invest in a decent display, because what’s the point of having a great sensor if you’re restricted to watching your clips on a tiny laptop? A phenomenal set can be had for little more than the price of an a6500 and kit lens, I’m sure. Anyhow, something to think about. There’ve been countless pages here devoted to gear, that’s what this site is about - but very little attention has been paid to how we actually view the content once we’ve finished a project. 

I bet it looks great. I look at a lot of videos online and I mostly use my phone, but then when I find one I am particularly fond of, I’ll watch it on my 40” . I try to separate things because I can be easily distracted... so I have a laptop and iPad for screenwriting, a laptop for editing, and then I just use my phone for watching videos, posting/reading forums, Instagram, etc...

[Geoff CB]

23 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

You know that your A7rII has even faster rolling shutter in FF 1080p than D750 right? Also it offers much better resolution as well... 

Oh I know, a large part of it is nostalgia for an older camera.