Canon 5D 2K raw feed update - 1920x720 possible on 1000x card?

[Andrew Reid]

That is true. I was also going to say that if A1ex and the guys can pull this off, they will have single handedly jumpstarted a stagnant Canon dslr line. But their Cinema line may suffer. It'd be interesting to know what Canon thinks of all this?

 

I guess the Black Magic may have a competitor after all ! . . .

 

The Cinema EOS line would not suffer. Which pro with $$$$$ to spend needs a hack? They need reliability. They need ergonomics. They need standardisation. Image quality is important but only one factor. Canon are wrong if they think DSLR video will cannibalise their C300 and C500. Maybe the 1D C would suffer... But I can't see someone like Philip Bloom selling his C300 and going back to a DSLR + Magic Lantern just for image quality.

 

For the creative bandits like us who just want world beating image quality and are willing to be brave, the hack is perfect.

[P337]

They should try the 7D, it has the biggest/fastest buffer.

[Zach]

It begs the question: Was Canon just throwing us a hidden gift with the 5D3?

 

Haha. highly doubtful 

[Oscar M.]

The Cinema EOS line would not suffer. Which pro with $$$$$ to spend needs a hack? They need reliability. They need ergonomics. They need standardisation. Image quality is important but only one factor. Canon are wrong if they think DSLR video will cannibalise their C300 and C500. Maybe the 1D C would suffer... But I can't see someone like Philip Bloom selling his C300 and going back to a DSLR + Magic Lantern just for image quality.

 

For the creative bandits like us who just want world beating image quality and are willing to be brave, the hack is perfect.

 

You got a point . . . . The "Creative Bandits" reference was good.

[Andrew Reid]

HA, Andrew deleted all my posts, even the ones not directed to him

 

Nobody wants to read that shit. You have PM.

[kabuto1138]

If they could only get a minute of record time, that will change everything. 

 

I can't donate for some reason.  They have that function disabled.

 

Bet that would make even harder for canon to take legal action since they are not making anything out of it now.

[Andrew Reid]

Canon can't take legal action if they tried because it isn't illegal, nor does it infringe copyright. Canon should take the approach of Panasonic. Welcome the project, then build the features into the next model.

 

Just the fact that they have added DNG and 30fps raw bursts is incredible enough in itself.

 

To get raw video would be truly beyond anyone's wildest dreams, beyond even a Philip Bloom April fools.

[kabuto1138]

This beyond Philip Blooms April fools.  This is probably what someone was referring to as a "game changer" less than a month ago.   ;)

 

Does anybody here know how to import DNG files to premiere 6? I can import them to after effects but to premiere.  I heard there is a DNG importer but can't find it anywhere in the adobe site.  Thanks.

[Andrew Reid]

It's funny that these guys were laughing at the DSLR crowd a few months ago, kind of ribbing us about how easily people get excited about raw when what really matters is the script, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

And now the joke is on them! Remind me what the C300 shoots again... Erm is it 8bit mud!?

[kabuto1138]

8bit with gaussian blur filter included

[Sean Cunningham]

It's funny that these guys were laughing at the DSLR crowd a few months ago, kind of ribbing us about how easily people get excited about raw when what really matters is the script, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

The folks that go there in a technical forum are really annoying.  It's not only ignorant but obviously inappropriate and odds are they're neither proficient in the verbal or visual aspects of storytelling.

[jcs]

Image quality is stunning, no signs of moire. I think it looks like a 1:1 crop of the sensor. It isn't the full frame, more like a 1.3x crop horizontally and a much more severe crop vertically.

 

1.3 crop comment: it seems that the 1DC and 5D3 aren't that different. The 1DC's full frame image looks very similar to the 5D3 (soft), whereas the ~1.3 crop and S35 mode looks pretty good.

[Andrew Reid]

Consider this - the hacked 5D's 2K raw image is better than the 1D C's 1080p.

 

We are being diddled.

 

The more that comes out the more I am sure of it.

[P337]

What needs to be understood is that these "2K" DNGs actually have about 1920x1080 pixels of "actual image", the rest are black bars.

 

So far each model seems to have a set width for the "actual image" but the image height can be changed by setting the camera's recording resolution in Canon's menus.  Also in the 5x and 10x mode the width can be increased but the height is about cut in half.  Further more 1080p and 720p modes seem to use the same "actual image size" of about 1920x1080 but the DNGs also mimic the frame-rate so in 720p mode you get a usable 1080p60.  However the memory buffer to your storage card is limited to about 30 frames, so that's about 1 second for most frame-rates and half a second for 60 fps.  

 

Here are a few examples of "usable image" sizes:

60D in 1080/720 = 1736 x 1154

60D in 480p = 1736 x 694 (almost 720p but needs a little up-resing in post)

60D in 5x = 2520 x 1764

60D in 10x = 2520 x 1080

 

5D3 in 1080 = 1931 x 1288

5D3 in 5x = 3592 x 1320 (a bit of a crop factor though, Andrew said about 1.3x)

5D2 in 1080 = 1880 x 1248

 

There have been very little advancements, 1% tried 720p 24fps on the 6D and only got 54 frames.  That is about 20 more frames and about 2 seconds and so far the longest 24fps recording on record.  They have also found that turning the camera to "JPEG" (Not RAW+JPEG or RAW) increases the frame buffer to about 50 also but won't compress the DNG.  The problem is that the buffer simply isn't fast enough and as I said before they will have to compress the DNG much like BlackMagic does.  

 

Alex just threw in a quick DNG converter to see if it would work, it does but it was designed by CHDK some time ago and based on a previous version that didn't support compressions, if they can implement the newer DNG then they might be able to add compression but even at a basic 3:1 compression ratio that's only 3-6 seconds before the buffer fills again.  

[TC]

I don't know how successful they will be with raw recording, but hopefully it gives the Magic Lantern devs a better idea of why the 'official' Canon image is so soft. Part of this would seem to be deliberate and unnecessary downscale/upscale to 1904 then 1920 image width. Maybe they can bypass that routine.

[Andrew Benton]

I'm curious about the heat, can the 5Ds cope with this higher output? Feeling they'd get plenty hot, and seeing how the 1DC needed the improved internal design to handle 4K video

[ScreensPro]

Consider this - the hacked 5D's 2K raw image is better than the 1D C's 1080p.

 

We are being diddled.

 

Can't we just rejoice in this great achievement by ML without sinking into propaganda?

 

The 1-DC records 4K C-log for much longer than a few seconds, with audio, so what is the point comparing? The 1080p (s35) is stunning and can record to practically any CF card. Incomparable to a few seconds of raw to expensive CF cards that were not even available when the 5DIII was launched (let alone the 5DII).

 

ML are doing something stunning and you are making it about yourself and your agenda.

[P337]

I don't know how successful they will be with raw recording, but hopefully it gives the Magic Lantern devs a better idea of why the 'official' Canon image is so soft. Part of this would seem to be deliberate and unnecessary downscale/upscale to 1904 then 1920 image width. Maybe they can bypass that routine.

 

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2764.0

 

This is interesting (to me):

Encoder feed is 1720x974 (550D) and 1904x1072 (5D3) For 600D, sizes are 1728x972 (crop) and 1680x945 (non-crop)

 

So the T3i was actually only as good as the T2i in its 3x crop mode??  WOW  I'm afraid to hear the numbers for the newer Rebels and isn't that 1680x945 number very familiar (7D's HDMI out image resolution) so I bet the 7D was just as bad as the T3i.

[TC]

@Andrew Burton: depends what is generating the heat. Is it the continuous read from the sensor, or is it the DIGIC processors compressing the image? I suspect the latter generates more heat than the former. With raw files not much processing is required (by definition).

[ScreensPro]

BMCC and RED cams can get pretty hot