Z Camera E1 for $200

[mercer]

Z Log? Is that just a gimmick, because it doesn’t seem very flat ooc? Of course, 11 stops isn’t bad for such a camera. 

At that price, it seems the only comparable camera would be the GX850, a grey market version can be had for around $375.

I purchased the Steadicam Curve a few years back with grand plans to use it with the a5100... I never got around to messing with it, so with the right adapter, this little cam could be perfect.

I know the Yi4K does up to 60p, and is an action cam with a much smaller sensor, but they are similarly priced, but as far as IQ goes, which fares better?

[markr041]

45 minutes ago, mercer said:

Z Log? Is that just a gimmick, because it doesn’t seem very flat ooc? Of course, 11 stops isn’t bad for such a camera. 

At that price, it seems the only comparable camera would be the GX850, a grey market version can be had for around $375.

I purchased the Steadicam Curve a few years back with grand plans to use it with the a5100... I never got around to messing with it, so with the right adapter, this little cam could be perfect.

I know the Yi4K does up to 60p, and is an action cam with a much smaller sensor, but they are similarly priced, but as far as IQ goes, which fares better?

The Yi 4K+ does 4K 60p at even 200 Mbps. Resolution is excellent, color is nice, and the 60p means you can make 4K slomo. No picture settings except sharpness and a flatter profile. There is no stabilization in 4K 60p, so you must use a gimbal. Not good in dim or low light - excessive NR  yields soft results. And you have the usual fisheye distorting effects. It is really for specialized uwa use. The Z can be shot handheld with OIS lenses. 

I do not know much about the gx850. It is larger than the Z, and may have less manual controls in video mode. It is not a videocentric camera like the Z. 5 minute limit on 4K video - no limit for the Z. The Z has mic port, not the 850. The 850 has focus peaking and magnification and a touchscreen.

Confirmed: no manual control whatsoever in video on the gx850. Only autoexposure. Fail.

[mercer]

@markr041 Really, no manual control in the 850? I hadn’t even conceived such a notion... that’s a useless camera.

If you have a minute, I have a couple questions... does the Z files have any grading latitude... obviously I don’t expect much, nor would I do much... but do simple corrections break the image? I most likely would just correct and then add a light Tint or Colorize in FCPX. Also did you expose to the middle, over, under? And finally how is the build quality? I read it is made of magnesium, but how do the buttons feel? How is the battery and microSD door feel? Oh yeah one more... how is battery life?

Thanks for taking the time?

[markr041]

23 minutes ago, mercer said:

@markr041 Really, no manual control in the 850? I hadn’t even conceived such a notion... that’s a useless camera.

If you have a minute, I have a couple questions... does the Z files have any grading latitude... obviously I don’t expect much, nor would I do much... but do simple corrections break the image? I most likely would just correct and then add a light Tint or Colorize in FCPX. Also did you expose to the middle, over, under? And finally how is the build quality? I read it is made of magnesium, but how do the buttons feel? How is the battery and microSD door feel? Oh yeah one more... how is battery life?

Thanks for taking the time?

I only got the camera two days ago, so I will report back as I learn more. On build, it seems solid. The battery/card door is firm and solid. The port door is a little rubber thingy. It won't break. The buttons have the right feel, you know when they are pressed and they are not loose.

For the outside sunny videos I shot a little under. The results were a little over and I could pull down in post to retrieve the highlights and color. This presumably reduces noise in shadows. The low light comparison video was shot at 0, with no exposure adjustment in post.

Ooc the colors are a bit muted, one can up the sat in camera or in post. I added just a bit in post, and the colors emerged nicely.

I am taking the camera on a trip now - I need the portability. I will learn about battery life and if there is any overheating. I will try the Z-log. As I said, with the normal setting, I did adjust exposure and sat in post with no obvious issues.

[mercer]

17 minutes ago, markr041 said:

I only got the camera two days ago, so I will report back as I learn more. On build, it seems solid. The battery/card door is firm and solid. The port door is a little rubber thingy. It won't break. The buttons have the right feel, you know when they are pressed and they are not loose.

For the outside sunny videos I shot a little under. The results were a little over and I could pull down in post to retrieve the highlights and color. This presumably reduces noise in shadows. The low light comparison video was shot at 0, with no exposure adjustment in post.

Ooc the colors are a bit muted, one can up the sat in camera or in post. I added just a bit in post, and the colors emerged nicely.

I am taking the camera on a trip now - I need the portability. I will learn about battery life and if there is any overheating. I will try the Z-log. As I said, with the normal setting, I did adjust exposure and sat in post with no obvious issues.

Thanks, this is great info. I’m actually kind of interested in pairing this with some c-mount lenses and a tiny swivel foot monopod I have. Any chance you have a Fujian 25mm c-mount lens to test it with? Also please report back with your Z-Log results or thoughts.

[markr041]

24 minutes ago, mercer said:

Thanks, this is great info. I’m actually kind of interested in pairing this with some c-mount lenses and a tiny swivel foot monopod I have. Any chance you have a Fujian 25mm c-mount lens to test it with? Also please report back with your Z-Log results or thoughts.

I don't have c mount lenses. Btw, you can get a modified Yi 4K+ that has a c-mount.

https://www.back-bone.ca/product/ribcage-yi-4k-plus/

[mercer]

5 minutes ago, markr041 said:

I don't have c mount lenses. Btw, you can get a modified Yi 4K+ that has a c-mount.

https://www.back-bone.ca/product/ribcage-yi-4k-plus/

I’ve been eyeballing their mods for the past couple years, first with a GoPro and now with the Yi, but I just never seem to pull the trigger.

 My main cam is a 5D3, but I’m looking for a second glove cam camera that I can carry around mostly for fun. I’m leaning towards a Leica Typ 109, but I may get another GX85 or an E-M10 M3 or maybe a Fuji X-E3... or something. For the price, the Z is kinda tempting though.

[markr041]

40 minutes ago, mercer said:

I’ve been eyeballing their mods for the past couple years, first with a GoPro and now with the Yi, but I just never seem to pull the trigger.

 My main cam is a 5D3, but I’m looking for a second glove cam camera that I can carry around mostly for fun. I’m leaning towards a Leica Typ 109, but I may get another GX85 or an E-M10 M3 or maybe a Fuji X-E3... or something. For the price, the Z is kinda tempting though.

It is expensive, and that's a really small sensor. You don't want go give up 4K with those other choices!

[PannySVHS]

 

@markr041, thank you for your tests. I think the lowlight shots are full of very unpleasant digital sharpening and noise reduction artefacts. Are these screencaps? Results from GH4 look better, judging from a friends footage and what´s on the web.

Glenn, LX100 sounds good. Not many great video examples out there on the web but a very very few super nice ones. EVF is not best and screen is no swivel. Today I held a GX8 in my hand. Was beautiful to hold, awesome EVF. Too bad it´s without IBIS in video mode. Will be interesting to see what camera you might be deciding for.  I would suggest a G85 for having some fun time. The lens in the LX100 is tempting too, but ergos, EVF and lack of mic and swivel screen and 15min 4K recording limit to consider as well. Oh well, G85 is winner:)

My favorite LX100/Leica 109 video on vimeo is this one for nice but natural colors (but nice also) and whole feel of the image. My favorite color wise, also compared to other model shoots shot by another guy. This one below is showing off some nice 60p also.

 

[mercer]

47 minutes ago, markr041 said:

It is expensive, and that's a really small sensor. You don't want go give up 4K with those other choices!

Exactly and there isn’t much of an image I’ll be happier with than from I’m already getting with the 5D3 and ML Raw, so my second camera really needs to be fairly small, simple to use, and most likely 4K.

Right now it’s a toss up between the Leica 109, an RX10ii or maybe an XC10 if I can find one for the right price.

For the most part I don’t want to deal with interchangeable lenses, and if I do then another host of features come into consideration... IBIS, sensor size, etc...

In the meantime I’ll just continue to watch the cool videos from eoshd members.

[markr041]

16 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

 

@markr041, thank you for your tests. I think the lowlight shots are full of very unpleasant digital sharpening and noise reduction artefacts. Are these screencaps? Results from GH4 look better, judging from a friends footage and what´s on the web.

Glenn, LX100 sounds good. Not many great video examples out there on the web but a very very few super nice ones. EVF is not best and screen is no swivel. Today I held a GX8 in my hand. Was beautiful to hold, awesome EVF. Too bad it´s without IBIS in video mode. Will be interesting to see what camera you might be deciding for.  I would suggest a G85 for having some fun time. The lens in the LX100 is tempting too, but ergos, EVF and lack of mic and swivel screen and 15min 4K recording limit to consider as well. Oh well, G85 is winner:)

My favorite LX100/Leica 109 video on vimeo is this one for nice but natural colors (but nice also) and whole feel of the image. My favorite color wise, also compared to other model shoots shot by another guy. This one below is showing off some nice 60p also.

 

You have a video with a direct comparison that I posted. No basis from that to say the GH4 is is better. Same sensor. I agree the very low light examples are not great, but m43 is not great for that in general. They were jpegs from frames, so that may have affected the results.

 

[PannySVHS]

 Your lowlight test in the church with posted framegrabs shows enough of a basis to say: there are a lot of GH4 videos showing much, much, much better low light quality than that. Same sensor is not enough at all, if implemented badly. EM5 Mark 1 has the same sensor as GH4 and its HD material is even much worse than GH1 quality. GH4 has better lowlight than a A6000 or a Nikon D5300 has, to compare it with cameras of its time.

[markr041]

The comparison that is relevant is the video I posted above using the GH4 and the Z with the same lens under dim, not low light. The Z colors are more accurate and the shots are less noisy. Comment on that, especially after downloading the original I uploaded. I agree that the sensor is not the only thing that counts, obviously. And i am not arguing the Z is the better camera, but the comparison video suggests at a minium no worse image for the Z, if not better.

[PannySVHS]

10 hours ago, markr041 said:

The comparison that is relevant is the video I posted above using the GH4 and the Z with the same lens under dim, not low light. The Z colors are more accurate and the shots are less noisy. Comment on that, especially after downloading the original I uploaded. I agree that the sensor is not the only thing that counts, obviously. And i am not arguing the Z is the better camera, but the comparison video suggests at a minium no worse image for the Z, if not better.

I am  just recognizing the terrible low light screenshots you have posted. They show super weird and nasty processing under these low light conditions. That would indeed be relevant to me if evaluating the Zs image quality. Another thing, 60mpbs bit rate for h264 UHD is too low for a variety of shots with motion rather than a photographic stills setup. So to me, I repeat, to me, it suggests, image quality is worse for the Z. Thank you for your testing, which I have always appreciated and I highly value. Just on that Z camera, I see it differently.

I must say, your Yi 4K footage has impressed me. For daylight that would be a fun camera. For the not modded version, how can one tame the fisheye effect?

[markr041]

On 12/2/2017 at 2:54 AM, PannySVHS said:

I am  just recognizing the terrible low light screenshots you have posted. They show super weird and nasty processing under these low light conditions. That would indeed be relevant to me if evaluating the Zs image quality. Another thing, 60mpbs bit rate for h264 UHD is too low for a variety of shots with motion rather than a photographic stills setup. So to me, I repeat, to me, it suggests, image quality is worse for the Z. Thank you for your testing, which I have always appreciated and I highly value. Just on that Z camera, I see it differently.

I must say, your Yi 4K footage has impressed me. For daylight that would be a fun camera. For the not modded version, how can one tame the fisheye effect?

The stills are jpeg compression applied to the video; who knows what does. Again, again the best comparison is the *video* I posted with GH4 and Z shots in low light with the same lens, where the Z is better. It does not tell us much about the limits of 60 Mbps of course, but it does indicate low light differences directly. 

A compromise on the Yi 4K+ might be to shoot at 2.7K at 60p. Then you can choose to crop the sensor and avoid fisheye, and get better than FullHD. 

[markr041]

DCI 4K and Z-log footage coming soon. Meanwhile, The Z returns to its roots - in Shenzhen:

Lumix 14-140mm lens.

[markr041]

DCI 4K graded zlog:

 

True 24.00 fps. Lumix 14-140mm lens.

[markr041]

Extreme high-contrast setting: Zlog-graded DCI test video:

 

[markr041]

 

[markr041]

Original Zlog DCI 4K clip available for download. See for yourself how it grades.