“The Middle Path”: A Lumix GH5s Short

[Matt Holder]

Luke - the sound was boss in the film -   and the daylight hilight roll off was exceptional in the outdoor sunny scenes. 

 

 

An intelligent story too - Great work.

 

The highlight roll off is the one thing that i can't get my Gh5 to do well without exposing to the left.

I am very / incredibly  happy with my GH5 but can see myself having a Gh5s as well. Gh5s with my voigtlander 25 / f.095 is going to be a beast.

 

Its all about the lenses folks!  

[Neumann Films]

Thanks Matt, yeah having a $38,000 lens helps quite a bit! It felt pretty funny shooting with that lens on a $2500 camera but it definitely added something extra to the footage.

[cantsin]

14 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

High bitrate 10bit h.264 is practically the same as ProRes

http://brightland.com/w/h-264-vs-prores-equivalent-quality-with-3x-smaller-files/

Yes. But the real gap between a Panasonic GH camera (or a Sony A7 camera) and a Blackmagic (or RED) camera is that in-camera noise filtering and artificial sharpening cannot be switched off. (On top of that, in-camera geometry and vignetting corrections for system lenses can't be switched off.)

Sothe image from a GH camera will always look more processed and therefore more video-ish. 

Aside from that, BM cameras produce much deeper colors (i.e. higher color resolution) than GH (and A7) cameras in video mode - which is quite visible in gradation/variation of skin tones, among others. It would be a great achievement if the GH5s made a difference here over previous GH cameras.

But losing IBIS also means losing one of the killer advantages of the GH5 over Blackmagic - its versatility as an all-in-one, handheld run-and-gun camera. 

[Orangenz]

5 minutes ago, cantsin said:

Sothe image from a GH camera will always look more processed and therefore more video-ish. 

You're quite the funny man!

5 minutes ago, cantsin said:

But losing IBIS also means losing one of the killer advantages of the GH5 over Blackmagic - its versatility as an all-in-one, handheld run-and-gun camera. 

Can you remember the last place you put it? My GH5 ibis is still in the camera. 

[sanveer]

I want to see the difference between this and the A7sii in rolling shutter.

The IBIS can be replaced to some extent for low light street videography (wherein your camera and gear won't be visible enough) by using something like new Ronin-S (which btw you could make even smaller by 6-7 inches or so, by removing the lower bit and mounting on something tiny).

I guess there are work arounds to the IBIS, and Panasonic just wanted to squeeze out the Mazimum Possible real estate from the sensor, to push it into and beyond Full Frane Low light territory. And they seem to have succeeded. While in 2:3 photo modes it may not be apparent, but in 16:9 video the difference in crop between the GH5 and GH5s would be very noticeable (even with the multi-aspect video preserving crop on the GH5). ["The Four Thirds sensor wastes 25% of the sensor area when cropping to video mode, and 7.4% of the image circle (diagonally). The APS-C, on the other hand, wastes only 16% of the sensor size, and 4.5% of the image circle.")]. I am guessing this 25% is huge for low light. 

http://m43photo.blogspot.in/2013/05/multi-aspect-sensor.html?m=1

 

I also think some crazy over-sized lens designs (floating lens element in a super wide diametre lens) on M43 could add quite a few stops of stabilization. Maybe that's thr Next Tech Development in M43. 

Low light and AF were the ONLY weaknesses of Panasonic IMHO, and it seems to have addressed one of those pretty well.

[jonpais]

I'm not seeing this 'video' or 'over-processed' look you're referring to either, @cantsin. Skin tones are marvelous on the new GH cameras. The only limiting factors as far as I can tell from my own personal experience are as follows: lighting, white balance and color correction. 

[cantsin]

30 minutes ago, Orangenz said:

You're quite the funny man!

Can you remember the last place you put it? My GH5 ibis is still in the camera. 

Troll.

[Orangenz]

6 minutes ago, cantsin said:

Troll.

Ok, you're quite the funny troll

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, Neumann Films said:

Not releasing any clips was a point of contention this time around

What about once the camera ships, you could release it then? (as I guess they're trying to avoid raw clips being leaked before the shipping date)

 

8 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Why not have both? For $4300 you can have 2 cameras, each with a different set of strengths. 

Or get a GH5S + gimbal for even less!

 

5 hours ago, ajay said:

Some people at Panny are claiming better dynamic range but so far, no real confirmation via a legitimate test. Has anyone seen anything of substance? Seems like everyone is focused on low-light tests.

If the shadows are simply cleaner than in the GH5 (which it appears yes they are indeed) then that should automatically mean greater dynamic range which is usable?

[Oliver Daniel]

9 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Why not have both? For $4300 you can have 2 cameras, each with a different set of strengths. 

@Neumann Films, what is the top anamorphic resolution for this camera. That part of it was really throwing me off with the screen grabs you posted. Does this new cam match the anamorphic res of the GH5?

 

Well I could, however I think I'l be reaching to the original GH5 for IBIS - I actually own ZERO I.S lenses! (one of my fave's being the Olympus 40-150mm 2.8). One of the reasons I dumped the FS5 is because some of my shots from 50mm had an annoying ugly-style handheld jitter here and there, regardless of my steady hand. So IBIS happened. 

Having a GH5S would fill a gap (lowlight), although most of my shoots are controlled. Another body would really be for multi-cam reasons. 

Great lowlight is a bonus, however the main pull of the GH5S is the better quality image via much smoother looking highlight rolloff. Its awesome what they've done. 

As it stands, in the most logical non-emotive sense, I think a 2nd GH5 body would be a better fit. 

[Sage]

7 hours ago, Matt Holder said:

Highlight roll off is the one thing that i can't get my Gh5 to do well without exposing to the left.

GHa  ; )

[IronFilm]

Better auto focus too:

 

"After spending lots of time comparing all the videos from both camera, I feel very comfortable to say the GH5S has noticeably better video tracking performance when compared to the GH5. (GH5S running pre-production firmware 0.2 GH5 running firmware 2.2)

 

GH5S’s focus tracking just seems to be more responsive, it pick up changes a lot quicker. And the most important thing is the consistency seems to be much better than the GH5. With the GH5, when it detects and tracks the subject, frankly I think it works not too bad. The problem is that every now and then, the camera would just take a nap and stop or take a long time to follow the subject. Now with the GH5S, while it is still not perfect, but the consistency is just so much better. The GH5S almost always can detect any changes in focus and adjust reasonably quickly and correctly afterwards. I also notice a lot less overshoot when it’s adjusting focus as well when compare to the GH5."

 

If the GH5S is already that good with pre-production firmware, how much better is it going to be once polished up and shipped? :-D

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLNQmaEdBUQ

 

http://www.photobyrichard.com/reviewbyrichard/panasonic-lumix-gh5s-review/

@Neumann Films did you see better autofocus with your anomorphic lens than you'd experienced before?   

[maxotics]

6 hours ago, cantsin said:

Yes. But the real gap between a Panasonic GH camera (or a Sony A7 camera) and a Blackmagic (or RED) camera is that in-camera noise filtering and artificial sharpening cannot be switched off. (On top of that, in-camera geometry and vignetting corrections for system lenses can't be switched off.)

Apple has a target data rate of 884 Mbps for 10bit 3840x2160 UHD ProRes 4:2:2 HQ,  The Blackmagics can do that, and even 4:4:4:, the GH5 cannot.  The 400mbps for the GH5 sounds like a huge data rate, but it's to reduce temporal inter-frame compression,.  It isn't true 10-bit color depth, as I would judge it.  Simply put, Panasonic and Sony can't match the data processing power of a Blackmagic.  Of course, the BM cameras are bigger than they look in pictures, a lot bigger, like "I'm not carrying that thing around" bigger!    For the size of the GH5/S, one can have no complaints.

[AaronChicago]

It would be great if Panasonic allowed the option of turning off internal sharpening.

[Mmmbeats]

I'm delighted about the improved ISO performance.  My situation is that I do a lot of work in museums and galleries and environments where the lighting is deliberately subdued, yet I have to work as unobtrusively as possible.  I absolutely love working with the GH series cameras but often struggle with exposure in some quite basic situations (on the occasions where I simply can't affect the lighting).

To qualify that a bit - I very, very rarely end up in a situation where I can't expose the image.  f/1.4 on a speedboosted lens usually does the trick, and I'm sure the same would be true of f/0.95 on a native lens, but I hate being stuck with that as an option so often.  That razor-thin DoF is just not the right choice for so much of what I want to capture.

If we really are looking at a 3 stops or so ISO performance advantage over the GH5 then that is a massive, and for me game-changing advance.  To put it in context that would be an increase over my current workhorse GH4 of 16 x the usable light-gathering!!! And that might even be a conservative estimate.

I'm looking forward to two things - exposing at a range of apertures in challenging lighting situations to suit my storytelling ideas (without having to hire in a A7S just for the purpose!); and getting a decent all-purpose f2.8 zoom so I don't have to keep swapping out lenses in the middle of busy events, etc.  That's alone is going to be a Godsend.  I just wouldn't have been able to rely on the low-end exposure before.

Bummer about IBIS though, obviously.

[mkabi]

2 hours ago, maxotics said:

Apple has a target data rate of 884 Mbps for 10bit 3840x2160 UHD ProRes 4:2:2 HQ,  The Blackmagics can do that, and even 4:4:4:, the GH5 cannot.  The 400mbps for the GH5 sounds like a huge data rate, but it's to reduce temporal inter-frame compression,.  It isn't true 10-bit color depth, as I would judge it.  Simply put, Panasonic and Sony can't match the data processing power of a Blackmagic.  Of course, the BM cameras are bigger than they look in pictures, a lot bigger, like "I'm not carrying that thing around" bigger!    For the size of the GH5/S, one can have no complaints.

For this reason... BM and other companies, I'm going to wait till at least  after NAB 2018 to satisfy by ever growing G.A.S.

[Emanuel]

2 hours ago, AaronChicago said:

It would be great if Panasonic allowed the option of turning off internal sharpening.

I believe the GH5s lower resolution will grant less sharpness on it. GH5s is a better acquisition device. Just not so hybrid. And period :-)

[anonim]

2 hours ago, Mmmbeats said:

I'm delighted about the improved ISO performance...

I'm often in the same situation. But, what I've found is that, exactly, GH5 with full open Voigtlanders at ISO 1600 gathered more light than exists for  the human eye - and, the most important, because of m43 DOF, f1.0 in fact don't result in THAT shallow DOF (it is near f2 at full frame measure). In fact, it seems to me that non m43 users don't realise how good and usefully advanced are pro m43 primes wide open in lowlight situations.

To sum up: having fully clean Iso 3200-6400 image from GH5s is dream come true - but not something that in the 95% of real life situation couldn't be achieved by fast primes. But, lacking of Ibis is for me hardly compensable for far more situations.

Keep in  mind that situations when we need to up ISO level to the 12800, even 6400, are in reality such that their color informations are extremely poor.

[MurtlandPhoto]

3 minutes ago, anonim said:

I'm often in the same situation. But, what I've found is that, exactly, GH5 with full open Voigtlanders at ISO 1600 gathered more light than exists for  the human eye - and, the most important, because of m43 DOF, f1.0 in fact don't result in THAT shallow DOF (it is near f2 at full frame measure). 

To sum up: having fully clean Iso 3200-6400 image from GH5s is dream come true - but not something that in the 95% of real life situation couldn't be achieved by fast primes. But, lacking of Ibis is for me hardly compensable for far more situations.

This is where the magic is for me: I love shooting wide open with my 17.5mm at ISO 1600, but sometimes I need more DoF and would love to use my Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8. The GH5s will allow me to shoot in those types of scenarios at ISO 3200-8000. 

[anonim]

1 minute ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

This is where the magic is for me: I love shooting wide open with my 17.5mm at ISO 1600, but sometimes I need more DoF and would love to use my Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8. The GH5s will allow me to shoot in those types of scenarios at ISO 3200-8000. 

In theory iti is so But in real life - first of all, I really don't like software corrected native lenses (nor their limited stabilization); and second, to use f2.8 (which, in fact, is more >f3 in the case of these zooms), you have to crank ISO up to 12800 in equivalent situation where your 17.5 use ISO 1600 wide open.

As we can see, even GH5 in ISO 12800 inevitably lose color information. Its really great strength is ingeniously clean and fully DR usable ISO 2500-3200 image, because of second native iso value.