“The Middle Path”: A Lumix GH5s Short

[jonpais]

All  this talk about Panasonic copying Sony is amusing no end. This new camera is going to have not only Sony, but all manufacturers, playing catch-up all over again!

[Mmmbeats]

Exactly. The main point is that the GH5 and G9 don't have it, so presumably it's there (if as speculated) as a marketing wedge.

ETA: that was in response to @liork

[mercer]

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

All  this talk about Panasonic copying Sony is amusing no end. This new camera is going to have not only Sony, but all manufacturers, playing catch-up all over again!

Well, until Panasonic moves up to a larger sensor size, specifically full frame, one can argue they’re two steps behind Sony.

[EthanAlexander]

Thank you @mercer 

Now we're going to have thousands of people uploading videos of 10bit VLog footage shoot at high iso at night where there's not even 10 stops of dynamic range in the real world but we're  still going to hear that anyone who shoots otherwise is a Sony or Canon fanboy who doesn't understand 

It's time to get out the popcorn - there's going to be a lot of funny threads.

[anonim]

10 minutes ago, EthanAlexander said:

Thank you @mercer 

Now we're going to have thousands of people uploading videos of 10bit VLog footage shoot at high iso at night where there's not even 10 stops of dynamic range in the real world but we're  still going to hear that anyone who shoots otherwise is a Sony or Canon fanboy who doesn't understand 

It's time to get out the popcorn - there's going to be a lot of funny threads.

Helpfully, there are always such extremely smart and illuminated heads to make balance with pure realism and sophisticate (i.e. 13 stops of dynamic range in the real world) argumentation.

[mercer]

26 minutes ago, EthanAlexander said:

Thank you @mercer 

Now we're going to have thousands of people uploading videos of 10bit VLog footage shoot at high iso at night where there's not even 10 stops of dynamic range in the real world but we're  still going to hear that anyone who shoots otherwise is a Sony or Canon fanboy who doesn't understand 

It's time to get out the popcorn - there's going to be a lot of funny threads.

Yep, it is my experience that those who throw out the word fanboy are usually the most guilty of the behavior.

Now I’m sure the GH5s will be an amazing camera and the majority of this forum will make quality work with it, but it still won’t match what can be achieved with a FF camera and it will never be as good as an Alexa or even the lowest level of actual cinema cameras. Although, judging by what Luke has been sharing, it should bridge that gap. 

But Sony, Canon or Nikon could release a FF, 10bit, video monster tomorrow, if they wanted to, and the nature of sensor size would leave Panasonic with their dork in their hands.

But for today, in a lot of respects, Panasonic is narrowing the benefits of a larger sensor with the benefits of video features.

Now if Panasonic pulls a rabbit out of their hat and gives us internal 1080p Raw or 4K ProRes with exportable 4K Raw and IBIS (or built in NDs) then it will be a very hard camera for me to ignore and I may trade up when I am finished with my current project.

But at only $2499, those things seem unlikely and I suspect some software/hardware magic will be delivering the best lowlight camera for Micro 4/3. And for those invested in Micro 4/3, or those who enjoy the benefits of the sensor size and freedom of the mount, it should be a great upgrade.

It won’t be long now.

[anonim]

36 minutes ago, mercer said:

Now if Panasonic pulls a rabbit out of their hat and gives us internal 1080p Raw or 4K ProRes with exportable 4K Raw and IBIS (or built in NDs) then it will be a very hard camera for me to ignore...

Agree completely. Just such sort of improvements for me could make formula GH5s > GH5 = 1000e (grey market price) acceptable. Anything else is +/- seductive gimmick and GAS dron attack...

[mercer]

Well, I know there have been some theories that there may not be IBIS in the GH5s, so I guess my question is... if the IBIS is replaced with internal NDs (I doubt they could fit both) would that be an acceptable alternative... or is IBIS a must have for the most interested of potential GH5s buyers?

[ajay]

While low-light is a plus, I'm really more curious about dynamic range and highlight roll-off. I am currently on the fence with investing in a C200...awaiting Monday.

[EthanAlexander]

Lots and lots of good points @mercer!

2 hours ago, mercer said:

Now I’m sure the GH5s will be an amazing camera and the majority of this forum will make quality work with it, but it still won’t match what can be achieved with a FF camera and it will never be as good as an Alexa or even the lowest level of actual cinema cameras. Although, judging by what Luke has been sharing, it should bridge that gap. 

But Sony, Canon or Nikon could release a FF, 10bit, video monster tomorrow, if they wanted to, and the nature of sensor size would leave Panasonic with their dork in their hands.

All things considered, combined with a speed booster the GH5s should be enough for 90% of people (who don't need DPAF) and I applaud Panasonic for pushing forward like they are. But you're right, there's just no way to substitute for sensor size at the end of the day. There's a reason RED, Arri, and Sony are going "full frame" with their high end cinema cams, and it's not just marketing hype.

[anonim]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Well, I know there have been some theories that there may not be IBIS in the GH5s, so I guess my question is... if the IBIS is replaced with internal NDs (I doubt they could fit both) would that be an acceptable alternative... or is IBIS a must have for the most interested of potential GH5s buyers?

For the most precious population of serious GH users (documentary and first-time, stepping the game indie art-shooters ), GH5 is in fact first major step above hacked GH2 - because of IBIS and enough advanced color science (very plastic or deeply sculpting color possibilities). Next major step for that population has to be just one: RAWs - i. e. to finally integrate BMPCC (BMCC) and Canon ML into functionally extremely+ competent Panasonic body... Everything between (incremental software games with rollofs, lowlight, slow motions, even impossible inclusion of ND etc.) are postponement (and sucking GAS-money ) intermediate steps. Anybody who once upon a time shoot and fall in love with early BM (or Canon ML) cameras wait for the first brand who will give also functionally completed experience - most probably it will be Panasonic.

[mercer]

@anonim well I chose ML Raw over the BMPCC/BMMCC due to sensor size, color science and DSLR ergonomics, so yes... if Panasonic can pull off Raw in a GH5 body with IBIS... it will be an amazing feat... but I don’t think that is in the cards for Monday’s announcement... maybe in 100 Monday’s from now.

[anonim]

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

@anonim well I chose ML Raw over the BMPCC/BMMCC due to sensor size, color science and DSLR ergonomics, so yes... if Panasonic can pull off Raw in a GH5 body with IBIS... it will be an amazing feat... but I don’t think that is in the cards for Monday’s announcement... maybe in 100 Monday’s from now.

Agree. Panasonic of course could do it, but will not do it - yet. Maybe, probably, GH6 - and it depends, I think, in great degree of reacting shaking power of small indie Spartan Blackmagic crude with brave chief Leonidas Grant Petty...

[mercer]

15 minutes ago, EthanAlexander said:

Lots and lots of good points @mercer!

All things considered, combined with a speed booster the GH5s should be enough for 90% of people (who don't need DPAF) and I applaud Panasonic for pushing forward like they are. But you're right, there's just no way to substitute for sensor size at the end of the day. There's a reason RED, Arri, and Sony are going "full frame" with their high end cinema cams, and it's not just marketing hype.

Yup, for Panasonic to get to that next level, and really compete with Sony and Canon they really need to embrace a larger sensor. I believe the EF Mount is public domain, so maybe they will start making some aps-c lenses. Hell, I saw the other day that Canon filed a patent for a Micro 4/3 lens. Now I know Canon has stated in the past that they’re a lens company more than a camera company, so maybe they’re planning on using their lens tech to make some money in the Micro 4/3 market... or maybe they’re planning to release a Micro 4/3 Mount Camera. Interesting times. 

[anonim]

Panasonic GH-strategy models have no inclination to seriously step into Arri and RED area - these are, as everybody knows, cameras for slow, accurate shooting environment. But to provide comparable indie experience up to the smaller broadcast level - Panasonic rules. And for that field, importance of sensor size between m43/APS-c and even full frame really doesn't more matter. Important is everything that - keeping enough level of image quality - provide indie sort of easiness: mobility, character of spontaneous shooting conditions, experimenting, camera reliability in uncontrolled circumstances etc. Before stubornly repeat sensor mantra for indie works, look once more, for example, to the Digital Bolex.

Yes, P. T. Andersson's Master, Tarantino's Hatefull Eight or, say, Inarrity's Revenant could not be shoot in m43 - but these are just especial cases because of aesthetic choice - and it is field surely out of discussion for the most of us. (But, tell O. Welles about shallow depth of field.)

For its truly area of interests, Panasonic is, in contrary, standard to be catched by clumsy restricted Sony and Canon offers.

[Neumann Films]

(watching clock...biting tongue)

[Cinegain]

Just change your computer time & date!

[Oliver Daniel]

41 minutes ago, Neumann Films said:

(watching clock...biting tongue)

Well you’ve spilled the beans there. It’s clear as crystal. 

“Biting your tongue” refers to everything you’ve teased not to be true, and the GH5S   is actually a smart watch (watching clock). 

All this lowlight talk is just about the smart watch glowing in the dark and beaming out organic and brighter ISO values to the current GH5. 

The watch also has IBIS. 

[Neumann Films]

1 hour ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Well you’ve spilled the beans there. It’s clear as crystal. 

“Biting your tongue” refers to everything you’ve teased not to be true, and the GH5S   is actually a smart watch (watching clock). 

All this lowlight talk is just about the smart watch glowing in the dark and beaming out organic and brighter ISO values to the current GH5. 

The watch also has IBIS. 

Never gets old ?

[Oliver Daniel]

36 minutes ago, Neumann Films said:

Never gets old ?

Forgive me. 

I’m in a hotel room, having just filmed a new TV program with 3 GH5’s getting the shots, so this camera is making me very emotional and poorly sarcastic. 

So January 8th, will it be worth it?