“The Middle Path”: A Lumix GH5s Short

[DBounce]

9 hours ago, Neumann Films said:

Luke, are these frame crabs from the ***** **** ? 

[Cinegain]

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

I've often wondered myself whether IBIS really diminished image quality. For today's shoot, I seriously weighed the pros and cons of bringing along a a MeFoto Road Trip; and ultimately, I just took the camera, some spare batteries and an ND filter. I wasn't sure whether or not tripods were allowed at the museum I was shooting at. But in the back of my mind, I thought for sure that I could have obtained crisper images had I been using sticks. Anyhow, I'm fairly certain that Panasonic wouldn't risk alienating a customer base that's averse to even carrying along a Rode VideoMic Go, let alone a tripod. It must be remembered that IBIS can always be turned off. I can't really think of any cons of having IBIS as an option; as a matter of fact, IBIS is the reason I completely abandoned my GH4 for the G85. Pixel shift technology has been shown to improve resolution; why couldn't IBIS perform miracles as well?

@Cinegain How are you so certain IBIS degrades image quality?

Well, one of the things they've said previously is that you can't have a proper heatsink on a free moving sensor. The whole thing is just limiting the access to the sensor in general of course, it's like de-boarding a full train through one door rather than all doors, or pretty much having a single lane highway between two major cities, rather than a multiple lanes one: limited flow, congestion, there's going to be more pushing, it's going to be slower/less efficient.

Ofcourse it's going to depend on what you want to pull from it and what technology you're relying on. The Samsung NX1 was ahead of its time and was reported to have some sick data pulling capability for instance due to having the right chip infrastructure in place. Think that's the thing you need if you want to pull 4K60p 10-bit 400Mbit/s LOG format internally. Also, better wiring may also reduce noise. And less pixels might be easier to handle as well (with larger photosites = better lowlight in general). Then it's all about finding a harmony between processing, buffer and writespeeds. I can also see a scenario for ProRes/RAW DNG recording of some sort, where you could use the dual cardslots for alternate frame dumping. They would need to be combined after recording.

Think that's one of the more intriguing things about it... they could really make it a proper cinema camera. An eVND solution would be pretty cool too, but might be in the way for certain lenses or speedboosters. But not having to cater for stills photography would allow them to greatly enhance the video capturing capability. Of course, for more serious video work, you'd see more folks going from handheld run 'n gunning to putting the camera on sticks, dolly, gimbal, shoulder rig, jib, crane, etc, so no IBIS shouldn't suddenly be something new for cinema style shooters and for new operators in that scene, it's a good lesson to learn, should they rent and operate a Blackmagic, RED, ARRI, etc one day. Of course there's something to say for people who aren't looking at all to shoot like that, that just want their MFT handheld powerhouse in a relatively compact package.

From Panasonic's perspective it would also allow them to keep other cameras still interesting and sellable. Where the GH5 is the handheld allrounder and the G9 the stills flagship. Unfortunately the segmentation game is still played strong by all parties.

[DBounce]

Well from what few clips there are that show the camera, it looks like a GH5 attached to that anamorphic lens... so maybe this is firmware? If so, sign me up for 10bit 422 with a Raw option. I’m writing this on my iPad so theses are 1440p frame grabs.

 

 

[Kisaha]

I am the only one not getting crazy with IBIS? Obviously is good to have, than have not, but I do occasionally camera (GH5s) for a cars TV show, and when I ask time to set a tripod, everyone is looking at me strange, and they have the GH5s for not even 6 months, and already everything else is out of the question!

My impression is that IBIS is something between a classic tripod/monopod and a stabilizer (Crane, or Ronin style), so for me it falls in "no MY land" territory.

How much high ISO performance you can pull out of a small m43 sensor, I am wondering?

[DBounce]

3 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

How much high ISO performance you can pull out of a small m43 sensor, I am wondering?

A ton, and here is why... at some point smartphones are going to shoot clean in low light. And smartphones are going to be doing so with tiny senors. So....

[Liszon]

13 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I am the only one not getting crazy with IBIS?

I used to do a lot of run and gun news gathering on HDV and even though the Sony HVR-Z1 had some sort of an electric/optical stabilization I always had to "Mercallize" the footie in post to make it look more static. Then I had a Pentax K5 for photography, that had a basic video mode where the 3 axis stabi was also available and I was amazed how good that can look without any post tweaking. If I would still do the same videography the GH5 IBIS would be a very handy time saver. Also I remember other editors worked horribly with the warp stabilizer, it would have been a relief to know what I hand over will need no butchering.

[Cinegain]

I think a clean ISO3200, very acceptable ISO6400 and usable ISO12800.

[DBounce]

3 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

I think a clean ISO3200, very acceptable ISO6400 and usable ISO12800.

If that organic sensor technology ever sees the light of day, I believe we will see clean 12800. But who knows if it ever actually panned out?

[jonpais]

Panasonic’s organic sensor is supposed to enable global shutter, have a wide dynamic range and extend sensitivity from the visible light spectrum to near infrared (NIR).

@Kisaha Panasonic announced they’re doing away with tripod mounts. ?

[Cinegain]

7 minutes ago, DBounce said:

If that organic sensor technology ever sees the light of day, I believe we will see clean 12800. But who knows if it ever actually panned out?

Those little samples regarding sensitivity, color reproduction and rolling shutter were promising. In the future maybe everything is being recorded vectorized and scalable into infinity. You can speculate a lot about the future and everything will be possible.

There are these specialized Canon and Sony camera boxes for scientific/surveillance purposes that will run into the millions of ISO. Things will improve, no doubt about it. Just, for now I'd be happy with usable ISO6400.

[Neumann Films]

2 hours ago, AaronChicago said:

@Neumann Films which PL to MFT adapter do you use?

I believe it's a Wooden Camera adapter.  It's working well enough!

[jonpais]

If you examine Mr. Neumann’s video carefully, you’ll notice that the color orange and the American flag figure prominently, so I’m wagering it’s some kind of surveillance camera.

[Kisaha]

a6500 has clean 6400, easily. I would like to see those 1 and a half stops better low light performance on GH5 already. What I am saying is that Ibis is not a tripod - the image still moves, and not a gimbal, the IBIS system trying to compensate the movement usually fails miserably, just my 2 cents after a few days shooting entirely on GH5 with IBIS. Very curious about the announcement though. Good stuff NF!

[DBounce]

I would hope it is not just decreased mega pixels for improved low light. The Sony A7R III does 42MP. So their is a high resolution variant. I consider the GH5 to already be pretty low MP considering some of the other options. Let’s hope for a real innovation, not just some rebranded Sony answer to the problem.

[Neumann Films]

23 minutes ago, jonpais said:

If you examine Mr. Neumann’s video carefully, you’ll notice that the color orange and the American flag figure prominently, so I’m wagering it’s some kind of surveillance camera.

Mob Conspiracy Mentality ?

[mercer]

59 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I would hope it is not just decreased mega pixels for improved low light. The Sony A7R III does 42MP. So their is a high resolution variant. I consider the GH5 to already be pretty low MP considering some of the other options. Let’s hope for a real innovation, not just some rebranded Sony answer to the problem.

I am by no means an expert on this but don’t you only need 8mp for 4K Video? So a 12mp sensor would be more than enough for good 4K Video while also making it easier to downsample the 6K to 4K in camera for a clean 4K image free of artifacts? Isn’t that why the a7s has near perfect 1080p?

With that being said, I believe the rumor states that the mystery camera will be geared towards high end video, so it’s quite possible that it is a S35mm sensor with an EF mount. Since the EVA1 has an EF mount and there seems to be a whole in their product line... then a $3500 S35mm 12mp GH5s could fill that gap.

Just guessing here. Either way, it’s kinda exciting.

[Kisaha]

I would love something like @mercer suggests, and I am complaining about a lack of entry level "cine" (on quotes) cameras for a while now. The only thing I would be missing then, would be Dual Pixel touch AF, but for 3500euros I could easily forget about it!

 

[PannySVHS]

Lumix GH5s, told you guys:) Both Screengrabs have a resolution of 3328 x 1248 pixels. Let´s assume Luk didnt crop them in order to confuse us:), I´d say, it´s a 2K+ sensor, 1.78 aspect ration (16:9). Luk had a 1.5 anamorph on the cam. 3328pixels width : 1.5 anamorph = 2218.666.. px width.  Pixel width of 2218,66.. devided by aspect ratio 16:9 gives us... 1248 pixels height, just like the screengrab:)

So, it could really possibly be a 16:9 sensor with a resolution of 2218 by 1248 pixels, codec and stuff would be the same as the GH5. Its like a BMC for low light and super low rolling shutter. Mount seems to be very strong, as Luks video didnt show any lens support for that 5 pound beast of a lens. No IBIS my guess with that extra strong mount.

Price I´d say 2599 dollars, for 2218x1248 16:9 sensor, super low light camera like the A7S. Sensor size S35,  like EVA1 with 24.60mm x 12.97mm.

[Jonesy Jones]

10 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Luk had a 1.5 anamorph on the cam.

Lukes post 1 page ago, seen here, clearly shows a 2x anamorphic.

[JordanWright]

31 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Price I´d say 2599 dollars, for 2218x1248 16:9 sensor, super low light camera like the A7S. Sensor size S35,  like EVA1 with 24.60mm x 12.97mm.

I can't see them releasing a non 4k camera