Panasonic seems to be announcing something "BIG" on December 15

[austinchimp]

6 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

You forgot to add that it would Only cost about $1,000.00 instead of $15,000.00 it would probably cost to build it LoL. Everyone in the world would buy that camera if it was 2 grand!

It would look like a Apple iPhone roll out with people camping in tents 4 days ahead of the launch outside of a Panasonic store.

I honestly believe we'll see cameras like this on the market in the next 5-10 years, and by then everyone will not only take it for granted but still be moaning over perceived shortcomings, pixel peeping into imperceptible problems with the 6k 120fps Raw, and wishing for smaller/larger/more ergonomic/more feature packed/more minimalist form factors at lower prices.

And instead of 'everyone in the world' queuing up to buy it, it will still only be a relatively small amount of people on these forums who actually care that much.

[webrunner5]

7 hours ago, austinchimp said:

And instead of 'everyone in the world' queuing up to buy it, it will still only be a relatively small amount of people on these forums who actually care that much.

Your last statement is probably correct. I don't know about cheap down the road. Well yeah it will be amazing tech. But as we see now already even lower end compnay's like Panasonic, Olympus, heck even Blackmagic are pushing up the price for cameras we would like to have in this last cycle. I really don't want to be paying 4000 bucks for a Panny or Sony mirrorless to be honest I don't care what it can do.

Unless you are making a good living shooting 2 thousand bucks is about all a person can do, and with all the other stuff you need on top of it that is probably most peoples limit or more. It is pretty amazing what you can do with a iPhone let alone say a used Panny G7 or something like it. So I am not complaining, but this new trend Olympus started by going to 2000 bucks Ain't to my liking as they say.

[maxmizer]

Meanwhile, now a Sony a7rII is easily found at 1900 euros ( 2200 NEW) in Europe.
We must see if Panasonic is better than the Sony BSi at s35 ...
but I think that Panasonic has come late ...

[ntblowz]

Meanwhile a Netflix series shot with gh5 is coming soon

https://www.presseportal.de/pm/14151/3820917

 

[PannySVHS]

33 minutes ago, maxmizer said:

Meanwhile, now a Sony a7rII is easily found at 1900 euros ( 2200 NEW) in Europe.
We must see if Panasonic is better than the Sony BSi at s35 ...
but I think that Panasonic has come late ...

better at what? ultra low light, well that is nothing Godfather or other Bmovies were shot at. Not even the King of Darkness, Gordon Willis shot at ultra low light. Panasonic is not late at all. All their video orientated DSLMs have been top notch. GH5 will show less artefacts in low light but more noise. Which of the two looks more "filmic"? I say, noise over artefacts any time.

[sam rides a mtb]

On 12/18/2017 at 2:34 PM, IronFilm said:

On 43rumors it said TC in/out

Very happy about this   Funny I saw on another forum (don't think it was here), someone who was claiming that no one uses timecode anymore and that this was pointless to feature this.  I couldn't disagree more.  TOD TC has been a lifesaver in countless situations, and when doing work for broadcast, the editors (more so the assistant editors who have to do the initial camera grouping) I work with always stress having TOD timecode that is synced among all the cameras.  I can see if you're a OMB with one or two cams and only so much footage, that TC would be less of a concern.  But for episodic multi-cam shows and documentaries, having TC that can be jam-synced is a huge timesaver and helps keep things ordered.  Even when I'm just shooting a 2-cam interview for a freelance gig, I always try to have the two cams running the same TC, and have been applauded by the clients for doing so, even when they don't think to ask for it.

[mat33]

14 hours ago, austinchimp said:

I honestly believe we'll see cameras like this on the market in the next 5-10 years, and by then everyone will not only take it for granted but still be moaning over perceived shortcomings, pixel peeping into imperceptible problems with the 6k 120fps Raw, and wishing for smaller/larger/more ergonomic/more feature packed/more minimalist form factors at lower prices.

And instead of 'everyone in the world' queuing up to buy it, it will still only be a relatively small amount of people on these forums who actually care that much.

Considering the Digital Bolex and BMPCC come out in 2013 from very small companies (what digital bolex was really quite an achievement for such a small team)  it's somewhat surprising we haven't already.  Instead of spending R&D on all the whizz bang features and compressed codecs, couldn't at least one larger company focus on colour science, motion cadence and using prores and raw.  Maybe now the C200 is out with raw being the big feature, we'll start to see some movement in this area. 

[Cliff Totten]

Thinking about the GH5-S. I really think that Panasonic and Sony Semiconductor really do team up beautifully together. With Sony's sensors and scaling engine teamed up with Panasonic's color science and feature marketing boldness, they make the GH5 one sweet camera.

I can only imagine what this "dynamic duo" will come up with in a possible GH5-S. This a combo that really makes the consumers the big winner. The only loser could be Sony Imaging Company!

Anybody that thinks that the GH5's MFT sensor does not compete with Sony's APS-C or full frame models....is lying to themselves.

 

[seku]

56 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Anybody that thinks that the GH5's MFT sensor does not compete with Sony's APS-C or full frame models....is lying to themselves.

the physical point is ... that theoretically they cant

But as you said, i really wonder what this Sony&Panasonc cooperation will bring to bear. (and we will keep hoping for that crazy dual exposure chip)

[Cliff Totten]

I have heard soooo many people have this idea:

"Sony Semiconductor can help Panasonic in MFT because its a completely different market than APS-C or full frame"

Different market because of its sensor size? Haha...yeah right. The GH5 and GH5-S ABSOLUTELY does compete with Sony in sales. I dont believe that buyers are "loyal" to sensor size in that way. I believe people will go to where the "features" are first and the "end result" they can get.

As a die-hard, self admitted, Sony zombie, I sold off all my APSC-C gear and moved quickly to the GH5. (I did keep my A7S-II and all my FF lenses...im not completely crazy)

Anyhoo,...the GH5 is a Sony Semiconductor/Panasonic monster and Im betting the GH5-S is going to be another for Sony Imaging Comany to fear.

 

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, Cliff Totten said:

I have heard soooo many people have this idea:

"Sony Semiconductor can help Panasonic in MFT because its a completely different market than APS-C or full frame"

Different market because of its sensor size? Haha...yeah right. The GH5 and GH5-S ABSOLUTELY does compete with Sony in sales. I dont believe that buyers are "loyal" to sensor size in that way. I believe people will go to where the "features" are first and the "end result" they can get.

As a die-hard, self admitted, Sony zombie, I sold off all my APSC-C gear and moved quickly to the GH5. (I did keep my A7S-II and all my FF lenses...im not completely crazy)

Anyhoo,...the GH5 is a Sony Semiconductor/Panasonic monster and Im betting the GH5-S is going to be another for Sony Imaging Comany to fear.

 

Saying Sony will not help Panasonic is like saying Samsung would not help Apple. But in fact, they do supply screens and other components to Apple... and other competitors. In the end money is money. Android users do cross-shop iOS devices, as do iOS user consider Android. If these industry titans can sell to one another, I am certain the same can be said for Sony and Panasonic.

[Garrett S]

18 hours ago, mat33 said:

Considering the Digital Bolex and BMPCC come out in 2013 from very small companies (what digital bolex was really quite an achievement for such a small team)  it's somewhat surprising we haven't already.  Instead of spending R&D on all the whizz bang features and compressed codecs, couldn't at least one larger company focus on colour science, motion cadence and using prores and raw.  Maybe now the C200 is out with raw being the big feature, we'll start to see some movement in this area. 

Hopefully.  Honestly, I'd be beyond happy and would pay several thousand dollars if a company just took the guts of the BM Micro Cinema Camera and put them into a more useable form, like a GHX or XC10 or even a C100 body.  I don't need or want 4K, but I do want ProRes (for client projects) and raw (for learning and passion projects) and thirteen stops of latitude.  I also want a flip out screen and decent battery life.  I think even in the age of 4K, an ergonomic and efficient 1080 60p raw shooting camera with built in ND filters and usable audio would sell like crazy.

I think the push by consumers and manufacturers to move to 4K before really pushing the limits of dynamic range and color science was a mistake.  Of course, if you have enough money for storage, media, and processing power, you can have 4K, great color, and raw/ProRes, but for most it's not yet realistic.

[Cliff Totten]

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

Saying Sony will not help Panasonic is like saying Samsung would not help Apple. But in fact, they do supply screens and other components to Apple... and other competitors. In the end money is money. Android users do cross-shop iOS devices, as do iOS user consider Android. If these industry titans can sell to one another, I am certain the same can be said for Sony and Panasonic.

As shocking as some people would find this,...it is absolutely correct. Sony Semiconductor company is a fantastic money maker for the mother company. It FAR outweighs Sony Imaging company (camera company) in revenue.

It is Sony Semiconductor's ultimate dream goal to have its sensors, readout, scaling engines and patents inside 100% of every single camera in planet Earth. Unfortunately, Sony's camera company has no say or bearing in this goal. They are literally left to "deal with it" and fend for themselves.

Its kinda sad but its "business" and the best way for the mother company to survive and grow.

It could be expected that Sony Imaging could order special designs and and certainly purchase sensors at a very deep discount to help them stay profitable.

Big question....who owns the Sony pattent for their phase detection AF? Im guessing Semiconductor owns it.

Rumor has that Sony traded pattents with Canon. Canon gave them dual pixel phase detection and Sony gave Canon their on sensor column AD conversion pattent. (Part of EXMOR) Sony cant call it "dual pixel" but it uses Canon's pattented process. 

And suddenly Sony had a damn good AF system that is almost identicle to Canon today. About a year after I heard that rumor, the Sony A6300 came out.....hmmmm.

 

 

 

[maxmizer]

On 20/12/2017 at 7:17 PM, PannySVHS said:

better at what? ultra low light, well that is nothing Godfather or other Bmovies were shot at. Not even the King of Darkness, Gordon Willis shot at ultra low light. Panasonic is not late at all. All their video orientated DSLMs have been top notch. GH5 will show less artefacts in low light but more noise. Which of the two looks more "filmic"? I say, noise over artefacts any time.

you've got it wrong.

[mercer]

2 hours ago, Cliff Totten said:

As shocking as some people would find this,...it is absolutely correct. Sony Semiconductor company is a fantastic money maker for the mother company. It FAR outweighs Sony Imaging company (camera company) in revenue.

It is Sony Semiconductor's ultimate dream goal to have its sensors, readout, scaling engines and patents inside 100% of every single camera in planet Earth. Unfortunately, Sony's camera company has no say or bearing in this goal. They are literally left to "deal with it" and fend for themselves.

Its kinda sad but its "business" and the best way for the mother company to survive and grow.

It could be expected that Sony Imaging could order special designs and and certainly purchase sensors at a very deep discount to help them stay profitable.

Big question....who owns the Sony pattent for their phase detection AF? Im guessing Semiconductor owns it.

Rumor has that Sony traded pattents with Canon. Canon gave them dual pixel phase detection and Sony gave Canon their on sensor column AD conversion pattent. (Part of EXMOR) Sony cant call it "dual pixel" but it uses Canon's pattented process. 

And suddenly Sony had a damn good AF system that is almost identicle to Canon today. About a year after I heard that rumor, the Sony A6300 came out.....hmmmm.

 

 

 

Dual Pixel Auto Focus and Phase Detection Auto Focus are identical?

[Cliff Totten]

They both use signal phase cancelation to determine AF points. This is just a rumor, BTW. I dont know how true it is.

[wolf33d]

1 hour ago, Cliff Totten said:

They both use signal phase cancelation to determine AF points. This is just a rumor, BTW. I dont know how true it is.

Yes but Sony uses xxx points, while Canon uses millions. In fact every pixel focuses in a way. So it ends up being a lot better. 

 

[Cliff Totten]

Based on what the Sony A9 is doing today. The two phase systems perform very closely now.

[RWR]

"I can see if you're a OMB with one or two cams and only so much footage, that TC would be less of a concern. "

Though I would be surprised with TC I/O on GH5s, a primary use is for double system sound...beginning with one camera..

However. that feature alone would be significant in this market segment.

[mat33]

On 22 December 2017 at 6:44 AM, Garrett S said:

Hopefully.  Honestly, I'd be beyond happy and would pay several thousand dollars if a company just took the guts of the BM Micro Cinema Camera and put them into a more useable form, like a GHX or XC10 or even a C100 body.  I don't need or want 4K, but I do want ProRes (for client projects) and raw (for learning and passion projects) and thirteen stops of latitude.  I also want a flip out screen and decent battery life.  I think even in the age of 4K, an ergonomic and efficient 1080 60p raw shooting camera with built in ND filters and usable audio would sell like crazy.

I think the push by consumers and manufacturers to move to 4K before really pushing the limits of dynamic range and color science was a mistake.  Of course, if you have enough money for storage, media, and processing power, you can have 4K, great color, and raw/ProRes, but for most it's not yet realistic.

Yeah, I also think the endless drive for 'see in the dark' low light performance hasn't helped with reviewers saying 'this is not a low light camera' over and over.  With all the excess NR being done we end up with 'plastic' looking images and people adding film grain overlays left and right to make it look more 'filmic'.  I personally like some luma noise when shooting higher iso (not so keen on ugly chroma noise), so can camera manufacturers please just let us turn off in camera NR and sharpening completely so we can just do it in post if we need/want it.