GH5 to Alexa Conversion

[Sage]

22 hours ago, tihon84 said:

Thank you! Wow, Davids and your VLOG footage look so good without grading...   I think something wrong with my exposure... 

I wish to know how he set exposure and wb for this shot.

I asked him. For me, nothing fancy. I shot the entirety of the outdoor shots in Always Already with the sunny preset, no post correction or color grade. For exposure, I generally aimed for a little brighter than I have in the past, just by eye, but not ettr (i.e. not placing just at clipping). Its ideal not to place significant image areas in the rolloff (65-75), or to significantly underexpose. The vlt preview gives a good idea of the resulting image (eye viewfinder gives accurate contrast)

*His response:

I always custom white balance using my x-rite colorchecker.

I exposed it so it was not clipping (except the sun).

The new luma placements of EC is quite right to judge exposure by eyeballing the V-Log Assist 1D LUT.

Othwewise, i would have ETTR it and used my luminosty mode layer to drop down exposure while keeping the noise level to a minimum.

*I think he might be referring to another sun shot he sent me, but it covers the bases

[tihon84]

2 hours ago, Sage said:

I asked him. For me, nothing fancy. I shot the entirety of the outdoor shots in Always Already with the sunny preset, no post correction or color grade. For exposure, I generally aimed for a little brighter than I have in the past, just by eye, but not ettr (i.e. not placing just at clipping). Its ideal not to place significant image areas in the rolloff (65-75), or to significantly underexpose. The vlt preview gives a good idea of the resulting image (eye viewfinder gives accurate contrast)

*His response:

I always custom white balance using my x-rite colorchecker.

I exposed it so it was not clipping (except the sun).

The new luma placements of EC is quite right to judge exposure by eyeballing the V-Log Assist 1D LUT.

Othwewise, i would have ETTR it and used my luminosty mode layer to drop down exposure while keeping the noise level to a minimum.

*I think he might be referring to another sun shot he sent me, but it covers the bases

Thank you so much! 

[mercer]

@Sage you have a conversion that works with CineLikeD, right? If so, has it ever been tested with a G85?

[Sage]

7 minutes ago, mercer said:

@Sage you have a conversion that works with CineLikeD, right? If so, has it ever been tested with a G85?

I do, you can get it for free here

I don't know how different the G85 CineD is, but granted the overall similarity of VLogs, I would imagine it to be close

[Sage]

The original shoot:

Emotive Color V1 (Tungsten Main)

Emotive Color V2.2 (Tungsten Main)

Varicam 35

[Maverick530]

I was reading the pdf for the cine D and saw the luminance should be set to 64-960 (Or something like that) but what am I suppose to set it for 8-Bit during VFR modes?

 

And also, I added the .vlt for V-Log assist, but it only looks like it adds a little saturation to the picture, is it suppose to add contrast too?

[Sage]

10 minutes ago, Maverick530 said:

I was reading the pdf for the cine D and saw the luminance should be set to 64-960 (Or something like that) but what am I suppose to set it for 8-Bit during VFR modes?

And also, I added the .vlt for V-Log assist, but it only looks like it adds a little saturation to the picture, is it suppose to add contrast too?

Hey Maverick530! Cine-D should be set to the equivalent for 8 bit (I can't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, stranded at work atm)

The .vlt adds saturation and contrast for VLog monitoring (the contrast extending the black level down to 1 IRE, the highlight ceiling the same)

[Maverick530]

10 minutes ago, Sage said:

Hey Maverick530! Cine-D should be set to the equivalent for 8 bit (I can't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, stranded at work atm)

The .vlt adds saturation and contrast for VLog monitoring (the contrast extending the black level down to 1 IRE, the highlight ceiling the same)

Okay awesome, I just wanted to double check, I forgot what the numbers are, but its something like 16-235.

 

And for some reason, my .vlt file seems to only add saturation, but no contrast. I don't know if that's just an issue with my camera though.

Other than that, Exposure is the same I guess? 95% on zebras for the sky, and 65% for skin.

[Sage]

For VLog exposure, you'll want zebras at 80% (clipping), and I have the other at 50%.  Above 65% is the rolloff, meant for over-bright highlights

I'll be taking a look at the .vlt situation at home, perhaps there is a setting or something else at work here

[Maverick530]

3 minutes ago, Sage said:

For VLog exposure, you'll want zebras at 80% (clipping), and I have the other at 50%.  Above 65%

Ah, I was thinking V-log did the corrections once taken out of Cine-D or Standard mode, I'll double check mine then.

 

But 50% is skin tones still eh?

[Sage]

57 minutes ago, Maverick530 said:

Ah, I was thinking V-log did the corrections once taken out of Cine-D or Standard mode, I'll double check mine then.

 

But 50% is skin tones still eh?

That's where I set Zebra 2, but there is a degree of flexibility to it. As long as skintone is between 40-65, you'll get a rich exposure in that zone

Regarding Luma placement (tying in to exposure), I wrote in an email earlier today:

"Yes, the nature of the conversion is professionally oriented, to treat all usable DR equally (hence the lower contrast). An artificial black level limit is not placed on the footage to give an impression of immediate added 'pop', and is rather left to the colorist. Luma placement is the simplest operation, whereas the intricate color interactions are taken care of.

I may add an 'Auto' variation in the future in addition to Main/Soft/Pop, so that not even Luma placement is required (!) (at the cost of flexibility)."

EC/V35 Flipbook (Gradient banding from .gif):

 

[Simon Young]

@Sage beautiful work! Due to the slight difference in color science, how you think this would work with the GH5s?

[Sage]

1 hour ago, Simon Young said:

@Sage beautiful work! Due to the slight difference in color science, how you think this would work with the GH5s?

From what I've seen, it seems to work well. For example, the difference from Alexa color science is astronomical by comparison

This is an S frame from Jeff Cowie that I prepared with EC and black level placement earlier this week:

[Simon Young]

Looks gorgeous.

[Sage]

Steven De Sarno sent these stills from high frame rate 8bit this week:

[mercer]

@Sage honestly, I’ve been one of the biggest critics of the GH5/s on this site. But I can honestly say, you’re conversion/LUT (to be honest I’m not a hundred percent sure of your method, I need to go back and read the entire thread) makes me reconsider my preconceptions. I’m still not sold that it is a replacement for an Alexa or exactly like Arri color science, but it doesn’t matter because it fixed every issue I’ve ever had with Panasonic color.

I’ve owned a few Panasonic cameras over the years and I’ve always struggled with their color. Granted I struggle with color in general but Panasonic never worked for even my tried and true, goto color hack jobs. 

But I’ve always been a fan of CineLikeD, I find it just flat enough for light grading.

Now I don’t think I’m in the market for a GH5, but the prices of the G9 are dropping and the G85 is a great low budget option, so I’d be very interested to see how your process works with those cameras in CineLikeD.

Also, as a side note, I have a history with the Nikon D5500 and their Flat Profile is simply gorgeous to work with. While messing with some files the other day, I noticed that LogC LUTS worked amazingly well with the footage (obviously at a reduced percentage) so with the new Nikon mirrorless coming, it may be worth looking into. And with the D3400 now sporting the Flat Profile and a $300 price tag, it or the still cheap D5500 are great options for no budget filmmakers. If you could work your magic on that... I know I would be a customer.

Either way, great work!!!

 

[Sage]

@mercer Thanks Mercer; consider the GH5 - the big deal, for EC, is that it has 10 bit 4:2:2, and it can be had for a couple hundred more than the G9:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-LUMIX-DC-GH5/323378271854?hash=item4b4ad8d66e%3Ag%3ABO0AAOSwIUZbYtHH&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=panasonic+gh5&LH_BIN=1&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0|0

Another factor is that the Pocket 4K is coming out soon, and it will only be $1300, with a full Resolve included. What do you think of the Pocket 4K?

If I got a hold of a G85, I could support it, probably via Cine-D. Likewise the D5500; the key with 8bit cameras is finding the right balance between captured DR and gamut bounds, and data density

[mercer]

15 minutes ago, Sage said:

@mercer Thanks Mercer; consider the GH5 - the big deal, for EC, is that it has 10 bit 4:2:2, and it can be had for a couple hundred more than the G9:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-LUMIX-DC-GH5/323378271854?hash=item4b4ad8d66e%3Ag%3ABO0AAOSwIUZbYtHH&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=panasonic+gh5&LH_BIN=1&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0|0

Another factor is that the Pocket 4K is coming out soon, and it will only be $1300, with a full Resolve included. What do you think of the Pocket 4K?

If I got a hold of a G85, I could support it, probably via Cine-D. Likewise the D5500; the key with 8bit cameras is finding the right balance between captured DR and gamut bounds, and data density

Well, Samys in LA has been listing some “New Other - Open Box” G9s on eBay for $1249... so that is a pretty big difference with the GH5 and the G9 seems to have better IBIS than the GH5. The G85 could be an option but the price difference between it and the G9 is kinda small, especially when you consider you can have 4K 48p and 60p with the G9... plus you get a headphone input and a few other extras.

I already have Raw video with my 5D3, so I have no interest in the P4K.

Honestly, if I even get a second camera, it’s between a Panasonic or the X-H1. If I choose a Panasonic it will be for the IBIS and your color science conversion... and for a camera to use some of my c-mount lenses.

Most of my short films will be shot with the 5D3, and the second camera will be for casual, family and experimental pieces. Now if you were to create a post workflow for the Nikon Flat Profile, I may get another D5500.

[Sage]

@mercer Right now, I'm re-evaluating the entirety of the process for efficiency (Model 3)

The GH5 with EC is all I've ever wanted; it would be nice to be able to support other cameras per request, as there have been many (and still manage film making!)

[majoraxis]

@Sage  as you mentioned the Pocket 4k, any chance you are planning on creating  a Pocket 4k Raw and Pro Res to Alexa Conversion work flow?

Thanks!

Mark