GH5 to Alexa Conversion

[Wild Ranger]

5 hours ago, majoraxis said:

@Wild Ranger what is the transition effect used between 2:30-2:48? Thanks! Mark

That's not a plugin or effect, The original take is pretty long, then the actress poses and then we change position, angle and pose. That is repeated for a entire long take. Then in post, I use normal speed and then speed ramp to the other pose. Some positions have been edited to between takes and cross faded. At the end i added motion blur to the transition to make it look like a Hyperlapse. 

4 hours ago, anonim said:

Actually, for me camera- and post- color manipulation goes totally to the second plan... it seems to me that you dispose with truly high level of object composing, subject positioning and colors-harmonization intuitiveness. Many used angles and tonal compositions are so nicely chosen  to provide brilliant accompaniment for according psychological aim... So, if it in general has a sense and if it is necessary at all, I encourage you to invest deeper in drama-shooting treatment, having great talent, feeling and eye, capable to - at favorable circumstances - result in something like, say, Enter the Void  

(Lets say I have some aesthetic background to dare to notice something like this :)

Wow thanks!  

I actually go more towards narrative drama, I made a feature and some short films. But sometimes i like to play and try different approaches to story. It's all about the joy of the process. 

[Exo7]

18 hours ago, Wild Ranger said:

Yes, is much easier to work. Sometime I use film stock luts for LogC. it depends on the project.

Hi, great work!

Can I ask you which filmstock lut do you sometime use for Log C?

Can you describe your what you did to grade your images after the conversion was applied?

Thanks

[Wild Ranger]

8 hours ago, Exo7 said:

Hi, great work!

Can I ask you which filmstock lut do you sometime use for Log C?

Can you describe your what you did to grade your images after the conversion was applied?

Thanks

I used some variation of Kodak Vision, also I have some love for the Fuji Eterna. That helps to establish a base grade, then i start with my own secret sauce.

I will only reveal that some important ingredients of my grading are, Diffusion and warming the shadows/cooling the highlights.

[Wild Ranger]

My order of operation goes this way:

Raw footage  ▶️  Mask corrections (like secondaries)  ▶️  Exposure & WB corrections  ▶️  Diffusion, vignette & optical fxs  ▶️  GHA lut convertion (to logC)  ▶️  Film stock lut  ▶️  "my grading"   ▶️  "my final grading".

[Exo7]

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer, i ll try that. ?

[Sage]

5 hours ago, Wild Ranger said:

My order of operation goes this way:

Raw footage  ▶️  Mask corrections (like secondaries)  ▶️  Exposure & WB corrections  ▶️  Diffusion, vignette & optical fxs  ▶️  GHA lut convertion (to logC)  ▶️  Film stock lut  ▶️  "my grading"   ▶️  "my final grading".

In the interest of conversion fidelity, its worth noting that exposure corrections should go after GHa, and WB corrections before (the core LogC conversion is a delicate thing, so to speak)

[anonim]

5 hours ago, Sage said:

In the interest of conversion fidelity, its worth noting that exposure corrections should go after GHa, and WB corrections before (the core LogC conversion is a delicate thing, so to speak)

In the interest of annoying curiosity, is it possible with simple words to describe difference between LogC and, say, Main GHa conversion?  Why should - which specific "look" or further grading orientation having in mind - someone use one instead of another?

If it is complicate to answer, please don't bother...

[Sage]

6 hours ago, anonim said:

In the interest of annoying curiosity, is it possible with simple words to describe difference between LogC and, say, Main GHa conversion?  Why should - which specific "look" or further grading orientation having in mind - someone use one instead of another?

If it is complicate to answer, please don't bother...

Sure,

The format that the Arri Alexa actually shoots to is LogC. The LogC conversion conforms VLog to the exact output of the Arri (when the footage is WBed correctly under a supported light source)

From there, the LogC data format needs to be conformed to the display to allow the correct handling of RGB. The standard approach for Rec709 is to apply the Arri R709 Lut to the footage (which has the correct RGB primaries). Other Luts and workflows intended for LogC may also be used following the LogC conversion (the Alexa is often well supported by 3rd parties).

My experience has been that Arri's default 709 color space is a very uninspiring starting point for me. The underlying color science is great, but the luma and saturation placement is just not very cinematic.

Enter Main/Soft; these include the LogC conversion, combined with a luma and saturation placement that I much prefer (and conforms to the 'Sicario luma ceiling'). They include the Arri R709 primaries for correct RGB on a Rec709 display. The base look is informed by film (celluloid) luma and saturation. I may release this as a separate component for Arri users eventually (the 'Emotive Color' component)

The following is from an Alexa Mini (Master Prime 35mm):

LogC

Arri 709

EC Main

(Click to see in the correct dark context, the page is very bright)

[anonim]

12 minutes ago, Sage said:

Sure,

The format that the Arri Alexa actually shoots to is LogC. The LogC conversion conforms VLog to the exact output of the Arri (when the footage is WBed correctly under a supported light source)

From there, the LogC data format needs to be conformed to the display to allow the correct handling of RGB. The standard approach for Rec709 is to apply the Arri R709 Lut to the footage (which has the correct RGB primaries). Other Luts and workflows intended for LogC may also be used following the LogC conversion (the Alexa is often well supported by 3rd parties).

My experience has been that Arri's default 709 color space is a very uninspiring starting point for me. The underlying color science is great, but the luma and saturation placement is just not very cinematic.

Enter Main/Soft; these include the LogC conversion, combined with a luma and saturation placement that I much prefer (and conforms to the 'Sicario luma ceiling'). They include the Arri R709 primaries for correct RGB on a Rec709 display. The base look is informed by film (celluloid) luma and saturation. I may release this as a separate component for Arri users eventually (the 'Emotive Color' component)

The following is from an Alexa Mini (Master Prime 35mm):

LogC

Arri 709

EC Main

(Click to see in the correct dark context, the page is very bright)

Thanks, although I know all of that pretty well  I was just curious why Wild  Ranger would use LogC offer (aesthetically wise) as conversion starting point instead of recommended Main...

[Sage]

3 hours ago, anonim said:

Thanks, although I know all of that pretty well  I was just curious why Wild  Ranger would use LogC offer (aesthetically wise) as conversion starting point instead of recommended Main...

In his case, I believe he is using a Film Lut intended for LogC. Arri tends to be more rigorously supported by third parties (accurate film conversion). This would be a very different starting point from Arri's R709 Lut. Main/Soft are a nice place to start grading from (without further *technical transforms etc.)

[Wild Ranger]

12 hours ago, Sage said:

In his case, I believe he is using a Film Lut intended for LogC. Arri tends to be more rigorously supported by third parties (accurate film conversion). This would be a very different starting point from Arri's R709 Lut. Main/Soft are a nice place to start grading from (without further *technical transforms etc.)

Exactly! Is a matter of been able of choosing different stocks and Luts for starting point. Arri Log-C is universal and widely supported.

That said, I really like sage work on "Main", i'm planing on using it more often.

On 8/31/2018 at 10:20 PM, Sage said:

In the interest of conversion fidelity, its worth noting that exposure corrections should go after GHa, and WB corrections before (the core LogC conversion is a delicate thing, so to speak)

I'll keep that in mind and try that way!

[Mihnea]

Is there any chance to share with us a raw (.ari) frame along with a h264 file from gh5? 

[Luke Mason]

On 9/1/2018 at 5:27 PM, Sage said:

In his case, I believe he is using a Film Lut intended for LogC. Arri tends to be more rigorously supported by third parties (accurate film conversion). This would be a very different starting point from Arri's R709 Lut. Main/Soft are a nice place to start grading from (without further *technical transforms etc.)

What's your take on this?

Alexa seems to have a distinct bias towards cyan.

[Sage]

39 minutes ago, Luke Mason said:

What's your take on this

I'm in the comments there somewhere;  we both made the same mistake. We used a Sigma 18-35 on the DSLR, and the cheapest PL lens we could find on the Alexa. In my case, I used the Zeiss CP.2. In his case, he used the Xeen. I assumed that it must be neutral, because it is an expensive PL. I was wrong; the CP.2 had a very strong blue cast, and the Xeen a very strong green cast (I was once seriously considering buying them for the Arri).

V1 GHa had to compensate for this color distortion between the lenses (grayscale neutrality - the Sigma was incredibly neutral), and this affected the accuracy of the conversion. After that, I knew I would one day have to redo everything with the exact same lens on both cameras.

The video still has its value; the color separation of the Arri comes through, and the beautiful neon vibrancy in the tunnel combined with skintone. Also, love the song

1 hour ago, Mihnea said:

Is there any chance to share with us a raw (.ari) frame along with a h264 file from gh5? 

I did do side-by-sides, though not to Arriraw:

http://www.mediafire.com/folder/x3ub82eh21u63/ALEXA vs GH5 (Side-by-Side)

[Mihnea]

I've seen those shots before i bought it, but thank you! I was just asking if is there possible.

[Maverick530]

Ugh, I think I'm doing something wrong now. Maybe I was doing it wrong the whole time.

In premiere I put the GHa Daylight (LogC) into Basic Correction, Then in creative, Im putting the Pop, Main, Lut. But whats happening is my image is just lifting the gamma and not expanding at all...

[Sage]

11 minutes ago, Maverick530 said:

Ugh, I think I'm doing something wrong now. Maybe I was doing it wrong the whole time.

In premiere I put the GHa Daylight (LogC) into Basic Correction, Then in creative, Im putting the Pop, Main, Lut. But whats happening is my image is just lifting the gamma and not expanding at all...

Ah yes, that seems to be a common error. Its something I'd like to update the website to reflect, and not just have in the Pdf (many skip the Pdf). In Premiere, the standard route for VLog is to place the PRE (10 or 8 bit) in 'Basic', and then the conversion (Main/Soft/Pop or LogC) in 'Creative'. If you go the LogC route, then you'll need a second instance of Lumetri to use an Arri display Lut (or other LogC tailored Lut). Otherwise, just a black level placement is required to conform to cinema luma placement (Pdf)

Also, WB corrections (if needed) go in the first 'Basic' section, with the Temp/Tint sliders

[Maverick530]

1 minute ago, Sage said:

Ah yes, that seems to be a common error. Its something I'd like to update the website to reflect, and not just have in the Pdf (many skip the Pdf). In Premiere, the standard route for VLog is to place the PRE (10 or 8 bit) in 'Basic', and then the conversion (Main/Soft/Pop or LogC) in 'Creative'. If you go the LogC route, then you'll need a second instance of Lumetri to use an Arri display Lut (or other LogC tailored Lut). Otherwise, just a black level placement is required to conform to cinema luma placement (Pdf)

Also, WB corrections (if needed) go in the first 'Basic' section, with the Temp/Tint sliders

So I use the Pre and then skip the LogC conversion?

 

I read the PDF a few times but it got lost in translation, Maybe a tutorial video would be a little more helpful.

[Sage]

10 minutes ago, Maverick530 said:

So I use the Pre and then skip the LogC conversion?

I read the PDF a few times but it got lost in translation, Maybe a tutorial video would be a little more helpful.

That's a good idea. I'm going to do a tutorial video, and streamline the vital points to emphasize them.

Yes, the Premiere PRE (for VLog) corrects a subtle green distortion in VLog shadows that is unique to Premiere. Then you may use 'Main' in the 'Creative' section. The LogC variation is a distinct workflow (exact copy of what comes out of an Alexa, as measured at every point in the colorspace) that requires a (3rd) display Lut.

Main prepares everything nicely, so that you are right in range of correct cinema luma placement (a place graders often go awry), have the correct Arri RGB display primaries for LogC, and have ideal saturation placement (especially with v2.2).

[JeremyDulac]

A few test stills showing some daylight and mixed lighting - I also posted a couple different exposure of shot to show clipped highlights. I have finally developed my node structure in resolve to a powergrade with the olpf, the hue passthrough and my extra contrast added after GHa in LAB colorspace. Seeing as I how I haven't convinced work to invest in Pansonic(they use sonys sadly) I will hopefully have my first personal shoot coming up to really put GHa through its paces. Loving this conversion!