GH5 to Alexa Conversion

[Sage]

31 minutes ago, deezid said:

It's not a camera issue (well it kinda is recording ProRes at least). Take a look at this sample BRAW file from Blackmagic from the UMP. Same issue using color science 4
https://downloads.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini/blackmagicraw/Blackmagic_RAW_Note_Suwanchote_Wedding_Dancing.zip

Methinks they must have concluded that most people would first experience V4 with the P4K, while the previous cameras could remain at V3. Did they announce that they would fix it officially yet? Ironically, I had a very similar problem with early EC V2 that has since been fixed.

[deezid]

1 hour ago, Sage said:

Methinks they must have concluded that most people would first experience V4 with the P4K, while the previous cameras could remain at V3. Did they announce that they would fix it officially yet? Ironically, I had a very similar problem with early EC V2 that has since been fixed.

Not that I know of. Really hope to see a fix to color science 4 soon (BMD UMP and Pocket 4K). 
Would recommend not to shoot any ProRes footage at the moment as the issues are baked into the footage then. Using raw it's not a big deal.
 

[FinnChristianPeper]

Are you planning to develop a EValex lut for the Panasonic EVA Sage? 

[Shirozina]

On 2/1/2019 at 6:29 PM, deezid said:

Not that I know of. Really hope to see a fix to color science 4 soon (BMD UMP and Pocket 4K). 
Would recommend not to shoot any ProRes footage at the moment as the issues are baked into the footage then. Using raw it's not a big deal.
 

The problem seems to be in the conversion LUTS and or Resolve's color space transform rather than in the native camera image.

[mirekti]

@Sage Any signs of GH5S profile?
Thanks and cheers!!!

[Sage]

On 2/5/2019 at 3:46 AM, FinnChristianPeper said:

Are you planning to develop a EValex lut for the Panasonic EVA Sage? 

I'd certainly like to do that. Last weekend I figured out the last of the technical framework for the website that I'd been trying to hammer out for two months, so now it is simply a matter of finishing the website to move on to new cameras.

On 2/5/2019 at 3:56 AM, Shirozina said:

The problem seems to be in the conversion LUTS and or Resolve's color space transform rather than in the native camera image.

The problem @deezid is referring to here is the infamous red clipping situation;  BMD appears to have unwittingly allowed their redefined gamut for CS4 to clip in the far red region (something that I hope will be fixed before I support it, as any redefinition will invalidate the work)

On 2/5/2019 at 7:45 AM, mirekti said:

@Sage Any signs of GH5S profile?
Thanks and cheers!!!

Working toward it! Its a top priority as soon as I get past the website for it, and I've figured out the most difficult server stuff now. I've been simultaneously shooting a film and battling what is perhaps the worst cold virus I've ever had hehe. I would be displeased with myself if there wasn't something by the sunny season.

[Shirozina]

I'm not seeing red clipping unless I apply a LUT or Color space transform?

[deezid]

20 hours ago, Shirozina said:

I'm not seeing red clipping unless I apply a LUT or Color space transform?

Must have a different camera then ?

CST right now is one of the tricks to hide these issues a bit.

[Mihnea]

On 1/28/2019 at 8:14 PM, redepicguy said:

Just got a GH5 to go with my Alexa and purchased the LUTS. Pretty impressed so far. With some tweaks, they work very well. 

VLOG

GHa 

Final Look:

 

Hi Criss! Welcome here! Could you make some Alexa vs GH with this lut comparisons?

[katlis]

Wanted to share more GX85 Cine-D samples. It's fun to carry around with the 14-42mm pancake for impromptu video when I'm not using it for photos. Additional coloring was done on top of GHa.

[Sage]

17 hours ago, katlis said:

Wanted to share more GX85 Cine-D samples. It's fun to carry around with the 14-42mm pancake for impromptu video when I'm not using it for photos. Additional coloring was done on top of GHa.

Love those stills man, especially the middle one

Do you use the digital olpf settings? They really improve texture

[katlis]

6 hours ago, Sage said:

Love those stills man, especially the middle one

Do you use the digital olpf settings? They really improve texture

No olpf blur on these. Just quick color tests to see how much I could save this random GX85 video. On a related note, I've gotten my DD1 filter and will share some GH5 results later, but so far I've noticed a nicer texture, however it adds quite a bit more flaring to the image.

[RCV]

3 hours ago, katlis said:

No olpf blur on these. Just quick color tests to see how much I could save this random GX85 video. On a related note, I've gotten my DD1 filter and will share some GH5 results later, but so far I've noticed a nicer texture, however it adds quite a bit more flaring to the image.

Great work as usual, I love all your ghalex vids. 

Was wondering what the DD1 filter is and what it does?

[katlis]

46 minutes ago, RCV said:

Great work as usual, I love all your ghalex vids. 

Was wondering what the DD1 filter is and what it does?

Thanks! Alex makes it easy! And his latest tip came from the GH5 Facebook group. Tiffen of course makes a bunch of filters, the pro mist filters probably being their most popular. But they also have a “Digital Diffusion” filter that comes in different densities. It softens fine texture without overly blooming light (halation). Alex suggested trying the Digital Diffusion in the 1 density. It’s subtle, but sort of emulates that olpf look. I’m sure he can explain more, but have a look at this video: https://vimeo.com/162597544/description

[RCV]

33 minutes ago, katlis said:

Thanks! Alex makes it easy! And his latest tip came from the GH5 Facebook group. Tiffen of course makes a bunch of filters, the pro mist filters probably being their most popular. But they also have a “Digital Diffusion” filter that comes in different densities. It softens fine texture without overly blooming light (halation). Alex suggested trying the Digital Diffusion in the 1 density. It’s subtle, but sort of emulates that olpf look. I’m sure he can explain more, but have a look at this video: https://vimeo.com/162597544/description

Nice! thanks for the suggestion! I just started using schneider's radiant soft and it does wonders...Im going to check out this digital diffusion filter

[Sage]

46 minutes ago, RCV said:

Nice! thanks for the suggestion! I just started using schneider's radiant soft and it does wonders...Im going to check out this digital diffusion filter

About two months ago, I bought a bunch of filters to see if I could match the Olpf optically. I haven't had a chance to do a proper write up, but updated the Pdf - the closest one was Tiffen's Digital Diffusion 1. I had always thought Low Contrast 1/2 would be the match because of Jim Jannard's note about matching the Red to Alexa many years ago, but it wasn't even close (too strong). That said, LC did improve the falloff, to smooth out the stair stepped nature of the GH5's falloff, which was Alexa-like.

The optimal stack I settled on was:

Lens > Firecrest ND (Cancels out inverse sensor reflections) > Tiffen Low Contrast 1/8 > Tiffen Digital Diffusion 1

That said, I use 1/4, which gives a nice distinct diffusion and smooth falloff, but is decidedly stronger than the Alexa (lowering the contrast as well). LC 1/4 + DD1:

This original Gunleik Groven test had also convinced me that Low Con 1/2 would be the ticket:

Red 1MX

Alexa

And DD1 examples, from Tiffen:

[RCV]

3 minutes ago, Sage said:

About two months ago, I bought a bunch of filters to see if I could match the Olpf optically. I haven't had a chance to do a proper write up, but updated the Pdf - the closest one was Tiffen's Digital Diffusion 1. I had always thought Low Contrast 1/2 would be the match because of Jim Jannard's note about matching the Red to Alexa many years ago, but it wasn't even close (too strong). That said, LC did improve the falloff, to smooth out the stair stepped nature of the GH5's falloff, which was Alexa-like.

The optimal stack I settled on was:

Lens > Firecrest ND (Cancels out inverse sensor reflections) > Tiffen Low Contrast 1/8 > Tiffen Digital Diffusion 1

That said, I use 1/4, which gives a nice distinct diffusion and smooth falloff, but is decidedly stronger than the Alexa (lowering the contrast as well). LC 1/4 + DD1:

This original Gunleik Groven test had also convinced me that Low Con 1/2 would be the ticket:

Red 1MX

Alexa

And DD1 examples, from Tiffen:

wow! thats some gems in there! Great information. thanks. 

So Im assuming you mostly use that combo when shooting the gh5?

[Sage]

Just now, RCV said:

wow! thats some gems in there! Great information. thanks. 

So Im assuming you mostly use that combo when shooting the gh5?

I've been using it for the first time on a shoot recently (first time filming anything since my research splurge in Nov). I definitely always want to use DD1, no matter what. I may experiment with other diffusion in combination, for artistic falloff (though the GH5 will never be an exact match for AA halation). Jan Sandvik, a GHa fan, posted an interesting diffusion example using black tulle in front of the lens, which I thought was quite filmy:

 

[RCV]

14 minutes ago, Sage said:

I've been using it for the first time on a shoot recently (first time filming anything since my research splurge in Nov). I definitely always want to use DD1, no matter what. I may experiment with other diffusion in combination, for artistic falloff (though the GH5 will never be an exact match for AA halation). Jan Sandvik, a GHa fan, posted an interesting diffusion example using black tulle in front of the lens, which I thought was quite filmy:

 

Fantastic! Read about downscaling 4k to 2k as Jan Sandvik posted. great technique, and upscaling from 2up back to 4 K for that reduced digital edge

[Sage]

Just now, RCV said:

Fantastic! Read about downscaling 4k to 2k as Jan Sandvik posted. great technique, and upscaling from 2up back to 4 K for that reduced digital edge

In my case, I shoot to 2K All-I, and use the digital Olpf settings, to make the resolution organic (and upscale as needed). Paired with the DD1, I find I only need the lighter olpf settings (5.2/20) to counter sharpening, and the DD1 takes over texture from there for a solid match. The full 6/20 is too much with the DD1 (beyond a match)