austinchimp Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 @Sage I've been looking at some videos lately showing the benefits of HLG on the newer Sony full frame cameras, and the colours, particularly on skin, look fantastic with very smooth gradation. Have you had time to take a closer look at HLG on the GH5 and do you still think V-Log is better? I haven't seen many videos with impressive colour shot on the GH5 in HLG, but I wonder if it has some untapped potential. Apart from GHa, V-Log can have a slightly unnatural look to it compared to HLG footage. I recently shot a couple of run and gun projects on Cinelike-D and am playing with your conversion to v-log, and it takes a bit of work to get it looking good due to my exposure being a bit consistent, but I love what it does to skin tones. Sage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Sage said: In post, a PRE matching the format of the footage (& NLE) is first applied Does one need to use PRE if DNxHD is use 1 hour ago, Sage said: Then the conversion is applied, followed by the grade/correction for under/over exposure Do you need to put a new serial (Resolve) and then apply exposure correction or you do it on the same node where you apply conversion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 On 10/10/2018 at 10:04 AM, austinchimp said: @Sage I've been looking at some videos lately showing the benefits of HLG on the newer Sony full frame cameras, and the colours, particularly on skin, look fantastic with very smooth gradation. Have you had time to take a closer look at HLG on the GH5 and do you still think V-Log is better? I haven't seen many videos with impressive colour shot on the GH5 in HLG, but I wonder if it has some untapped potential. Apart from GHa, V-Log can have a slightly unnatural look to it compared to HLG footage. I recently shot a couple of run and gun projects on Cinelike-D and am playing with your conversion to v-log, and it takes a bit of work to get it looking good due to my exposure being a bit consistent, but I love what it does to skin tones. Yes, VLog is optimal, as the conversion to LogC was done directly for it; the gap for the others will be closing shortly. The data distribution will be a bit different, but the visual result the same* (one could think of the NLEs' color engines as being 32-bit floating point pass-throughs for the raw data distribution of the originating format) On 10/10/2018 at 11:05 AM, mirekti said: Does one need to use PRE if DNxHD is use Do you need to put a new serial (Resolve) and then apply exposure correction or you do it on the same node where you apply conversion? Yes, if its VLog in DNX (hides the unique flagging of VLog L for correct levels) it would need the ProRes PRE. Mezzanine formats (ProRes/DNX) are best avoided at the moment in Premiere, as PPro distorts the color space (ProRes confirmed). All-I achieves the same end in camera, in the case of the GH5 A new node, after the conversion node, for exp correction for sure (distinct routing) mirekti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 33 minutes ago, Sage said: Yes, if its VLog in DNX (hides the unique flagging of VLog L for correct levels) it would need the ProRes PRE Ok, thanks, I just wanted to make sure there is no need for DNxHD PRE i.e. if one uses ProRes or DNxHD the same ProRes PRE needs to be applied. Sage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 @Sage I'm ready to buy but I'm not sure which WB to get. I shoot in all conditions and use auto-WB. I'm comfortable adjusting WB in Resolve if it's not quite right and I only do non-professional work so isn't completely critical. Does it matter which version I get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRat Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 @kye I bought both and love to use them but I use the Daylight LUT more since I'm shooting more during the day plus the colors are not too orange in white light during the night. Have shot few scenes anything under Tungsten lighting though so your preference may vary. Also want to hear from @Sage for this kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 @kye@TurboRat Daylight is probably preferable in that case - one can use daylight balanced bulbs (or gels) indoors, but the sun is always the sun Tungsten balanced bulbs with correct WB will be rendered greener with Daylight (very basic summary) kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katlis Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 12:06 PM, Sage said: Yes, if its VLog in DNX (hides the unique flagging of VLog L for correct levels) it would need the ProRes PRE. Mezzanine formats (ProRes/DNX) are best avoided at the moment in Premiere, as PPro distorts the color space (ProRes confirmed). Glad I read this page today, didn't know about the ProRes PRE with DNX, thanks for the heads up. I just did a 4K 10bit 60p test in DNxHR HQX (with my new Ninja V)! Definitely getting different results between software. Premiere has more of a green cast. You can get closer to Resolve's output in Premiere by simply decreasing the temp by 1.0 and increasing the tint by 1.0, in this test anyway. Still not the same, but hard to see with the eye after tweaking. Side note, loving the little Ninja V. Using the full 3D LUT for monitoring is awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 @katlis Thanks so much for looking into this! Indeed, Premiere has completely arbitrary and distinct color renderings of every different format. To completely correct for it, I'll have to do new conversions separately for ProRes and DNX (soon as I've got the time) For the time being, I recommend either using Resolve for ProRes/DNX, or shooting All-I if you use Premiere. And All-I is fantastic (quite similar in spirit to ProRes/DNX) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboRat Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 35 minutes ago, katlis said: Glad I read this page today, didn't know about the ProRes PRE with DNX, thanks for the heads up. I just did a 4K 10bit 60p test in DNxHR HQX (with my new Ninja V)! Definitely getting different results between software. Premiere has more of a green cast. You can get closer to Resolve's output in Premiere by simply decreasing the temp by 1.0 and increasing the tint by 1.0, in this test anyway. Still not the same, but hard to see with the eye after tweaking. Side note, loving the little Ninja V. Using the full 3D LUT for monitoring is awesome! Wow yeah I notice the green cast in Premiere. This confirms my bias against premiere as an NLE since I also had issues after rendering in Premiere (because desaturated). I think it's officially time to move to Resolve.. mirekti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_fowkes Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I made another video using the LUT again @Sage, this time using the LUT at 100 strength. I'm planning on making the move to Resolve soon, to have more control over my grade. I assume the LUT can be used in Resolve as well? https://youtu.be/6UxUGpJvRQs kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 14 hours ago, will_fowkes said: I made another video using the LUT again @Sage, this time using the LUT at 100 strength. I'm planning on making the move to Resolve soon, to have more control over my grade. I assume the LUT can be used in Resolve as well? https://youtu.be/6UxUGpJvRQs Love it man; also, I need to get this update out to you It can be used in Resolve, without the Vlog PRE needed in Premiere (walkthrough in the next Pdf) will_fowkes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_fowkes Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Sage said: Love it man; also, I need to get this update out to you It can be used in Resolve, without the Vlog PRE needed in Premiere (walkthrough in the next Pdf) Please bring the update out! I'm excited to start using it Sage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 8 hours ago, Sage said: It can be used in Resolve, without the Vlog PRE needed in Premiere (walkthrough in the next Pdf) Oh, I might have missed the point here. Does this mean PRE is only to be used with Premiere and in Resolve it is not needed no matter the codec used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 1 hour ago, mirekti said: Oh, I might have missed the point here. Does this mean PRE is only to be used with Premiere and in Resolve it is not needed no matter the codec used? No PRE is needed for raw VLog in Resolve A PRE is needed in Resolve for: HLG, Cine-D, and VLog wrapped in ProRes/DNX (or for wrapped VLog, 'data levels' can be set to Full/Data for the clip) mirekti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Ranger Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Hi everybody! here i wanna share some stills from a little "fiction/experimental" project I shot with some friends. All this are graded with GHa Log-C. mercer, kye, Adept and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 @Wild Ranger Nice - can you share VLog stills (with the Pre if in Premiere) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Ranger Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 @Sage Sure! here are Vlog stills. Adept 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypp Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 @Sage In a previous post, someone asked Quote Is the LogC curve similar to BMDFilm? A few of the samples remind me more of Ursa footage. and you answered Quote Yes! (More on this later this year) Its decidedly closer than GH5 V-Log Is there any information about this yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 @Sage Does your LUT change only color or it also affects contrast? For example if I put a Tiffen Pro Mist filter in front of my lens would it mess it up? I was thinking of using a regular one for daylight and warming one for shade and keep the white balance in camera on daylight all the time. Does this make any sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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