GH5 to Alexa Conversion

[heart0less]

Too contrasty and washed out, IMHO. 

It lacks the subtlety and gorgeous color vibrance of GHAlex. 

[Sage]

I believe he may have used Emotive on the Ursa portions; he is a huge fan of GHa and has P4Ka as of 3 weeks ago. The rolloff on the sunny leaves etc. feels right, but the colors are very off and green; its a safe bet that the Ursa has quite a different color science than the P4K, and will need its own conversion (working towards that day)

[Rinad Amir]

Hi @Sage any chance you working on S1H Vlog? Id love to have some Alexa colour 😁

[Sage]

On 1/18/2020 at 7:06 PM, Rinad Amir said:

Hi @Sage any chance you working on S1H Vlog? Id love to have some Alexa colour 😁

That's the plan - I'm almost finished setting everything up for cameras going forward. I will really be able to accelerate now; a good indication will be how fast the GH5S is supported after the release of V4 for GH5. If a matter of weeks, then that is a very good sign for other cameras. Things will accelerate from there.

[TrueIndigo]

Sage, why does the 10-bit HLG profile use the reduced range of 64-940 - wouldn't the extra tones in the extremities be an advantage?

[Sage]

1 hour ago, TrueIndigo said:

Sage, why does the 10-bit HLG profile use the reduced range of 64-940 - wouldn't the extra tones in the extremities be an advantage?

HLG is a video *display format; its intended for use by a consumer who might theoretically show it directly on their HLG screen. It has to conform to video levels so that it will have correct contrast (and no range clipping on TVs). For computer *data formats, such as VLog, this isn't a concern, because its destined by design for the color suite (the computer display world is 0-1023). In practice though, because of the greater midtone contrast and upper range use of HLG combined with .mp4 compression, HLG has a bit depth density edge, over GH5 VLog.

[Gianluca]

For a6300? I can already imagine the answer... 😥

[androidlad]

3 hours ago, Sage said:

HLG is a video *display format; its intended for use by a consumer who might theoretically show it directly on their HLG screen. It has to conform to video levels so that it will have correct contrast (and no range clipping on TVs). For computer *data formats, such as VLog, this isn't a concern, because its destined by design for the color suite (the computer display world is 0-1023). In practice though, because of the greater midtone contrast and upper range use of HLG combined with .mp4 compression, HLG has a bit depth density edge, over GH5 VLog.

HLG can be either full range or video range per BT.2100 spec. Fujifilm use full range 0 - 1023 for their HLG implementation.

[Sage]

29 minutes ago, Gianluca said:

For a6300? I can already imagine the answer... 😥

Crazy as it sounds, that's a possibility. My main concern there is bit depth density; SLog would probably not be the focus. The GH5S is next around the corner

[Attila Bakos]

49 minutes ago, Sage said:

Crazy as it sounds, that's a possibility. My main concern there is bit depth density; SLog would probably not be the focus. The GH5S is next around the corner

I have some experience with that, one of my LUT packages is based on measurements from an A6300 (S-Log2). Without going into details, I think you can create a product that satisfies most people, but it won't be up to your standards.

[mercer]

@Sage I remember you saying that 1080p is the sweet spot for the GH5, and GHAlex transform, is there a technical reason for that like better highlight detail with the 200mbps all-i 1080p files?

I'm devising a pretty aggressive plan for a slate of short films over the next year and as much as I love my 5D3 and ML Raw, it's not necessarily the best tool for every project I am planning. As I'm sure you know, the freedom that IBIS affords certain productions can be an invaluable tool, but it's only so valuable.

Since I still live in a 2K world, I see little need for 4K in my films. At the current price of the GH5, it's instantly a contender as a second camera option if I'm not losing too much IQ with the GH5.

Also, with the GHAlex process, is there any benefit to shooting in CineLikeD over vLogL? I assume there isn't, but I figured it was worth an ask.

 

[Benjamin Hilton]

@Sage might have better info on this, but from my experience, the 1080 out of camera vs 4K downscaled to 1080 in post are nearly identical, something very rarely found. I shoot 4K for most projects still as I have the processing capabilities and want to future proof. But if you aren't concerned about it, 1080 is very wonderful out of the GH5. On the advantage side, 1080 out of the GH5 gives 60p in 10 bit, and a more bang for your buck bitrate. I've been using this GHAlex process for quite some time now, and couldn't be happier with it. I feel like it gave the GH5 the soul it was missing.

[Benjamin Hilton]

From a promo I did recently with the GHA color on the interviews, you have to skip in a bit to see them:

 

Funny thing, I was in a meeting a little while back with the Director of a really big TV station in the States and was showing him a video I did using the GHA color, while watching it he turning to me and asked under his breath, "you shoot on Red, right?" I took it as a really big compliment I must say😉

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billdoubleu]

@Benjamin Hilton, this looks great! What lenses and/ or filters did you use?

[RCV]

12 hours ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

@Sage might have better info on this, but from my experience, the 1080 out of camera vs 4K downscaled to 1080 in post are nearly identical, something very rarely found. I shoot 4K for most projects still as I have the processing capabilities and want to future proof. But if you aren't concerned about it, 1080 is very wonderful out of the GH5. On the advantage side, 1080 out of the GH5 gives 60p in 10 bit, and a more bang for your buck bitrate. I've been using this GHAlex process for quite some time now, and couldn't be happier with it. I feel like it gave the GH5 the soul it was missing.

your promo looks great. I agree with you on downscaling to 1080. downscaling has a ton of advantages one of which i love: smaller / negligible visible noise on the 1080 timeline 

On 1/26/2020 at 4:55 PM, mercer said:

@Sage I remember you saying that 1080p is the sweet spot for the GH5, and GHAlex transform, is there a technical reason for that like better highlight detail with the 200mbps all-i 1080p files?

I'm devising a pretty aggressive plan for a slate of short films over the next year and as much as I love my 5D3 and ML Raw, it's not necessarily the best tool for every project I am planning. As I'm sure you know, the freedom that IBIS affords certain productions can be an invaluable tool, but it's only so valuable.

Since I still live in a 2K world, I see little need for 4K in my films. At the current price of the GH5, it's instantly a contender as a second camera option if I'm not losing too much IQ with the GH5.

Also, with the GHAlex process, is there any benefit to shooting in CineLikeD over vLogL? I assume there isn't, but I figured it was worth an ask.

 

wondering why not opt for the P4K instead

[mercer]

On 1/27/2020 at 11:14 AM, Benjamin Hilton said:

@Sage might have better info on this, but from my experience, the 1080 out of camera vs 4K downscaled to 1080 in post are nearly identical, something very rarely found. I shoot 4K for most projects still as I have the processing capabilities and want to future proof. But if you aren't concerned about it, 1080 is very wonderful out of the GH5. On the advantage side, 1080 out of the GH5 gives 60p in 10 bit, and a more bang for your buck bitrate. I've been using this GHAlex process for quite some time now, and couldn't be happier with it. I feel like it gave the GH5 the soul it was missing.

Good to know, thanks! It seems the GH5 is the next generation's C100 with a little more color issues. Luckily, @Sage 's GHAlex workflow solves most of those issues.

You may have read, from my posts, that I shoot ML Raw on my 5D3 and I could honestly be happy with that image for years to come.

With that said, some projects require different tools and if I get a second camera (I haven't completely decided yet) I will definitely get something that I do not already have with my 5D3. The obvious feature is IBIS, followed by the ability to use XLR microphones with the add on module. And finally an inherently sharper image, with vintage lenses, that doesn't require post manipulation to achieve the more modern, sharper look. 

An obvious pitfall is the crop factor which is an annoying hurdle since I've been shooting full frame for the past few years. But it does offer some interesting lens possibilities with c-mounts and some vintage cinema lenses.

One thing I am curious about is if GHAlex affects B&W footage? After shooting raw video and the post corrections it affords, I have found fixing WB in post to be tedious on footage from cameras with compressed codecs and in-camera processing. Since I love B&W, I was contemplating using a second camera primarily for B&W.

My friend's wife surprised him with a GH5 for Christmas and I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of the IBIS on it. Having used other Panny IBIS capable cameras, the GH5's implementation of it is definitely superior.

When the GH5 was released, the image wasn't worth the price of the camera to me. I was looking for something else. Now that the camera has dropped in price, and GHAlex is available, it's becoming a contender for a second camera.

But with that said, I have owned a few second cameras since buying my 5D3 and in every instance I chose the raw image from the 5D3 every single time I reached for a camera. So... we'll see.

[mercer]

On 1/27/2020 at 11:18 AM, Benjamin Hilton said:

Funny thing, I was in a meeting a little while back with the Director of a really big TV station in the States and was showing him a video I did using the GHA color, while watching it he turning to me and asked under his breath, "you shoot on Red, right?" I took it as a really big compliment I must say😉

After watching a lot of Netflix's original programming, I have a growing fondness for that modern, Red look and redcode color science. So, yes that is a great compliment and makes the GH5 a little bit more appealing to me... maybe @Sage can create a GHred workflow in the future. In my opinion, this seems more appealing than making an Alex version for every camera on the market.

Can you share the video you showed the director from the TV station?

[Parker]

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

One thing I am curious about is if GHAlex affects B&W footage? After shooting raw video and the post corrections it affords, I have found fixing WB in post to be tedious on footage from cameras with compressed codecs and in-camera processing. Since I love B&W, I was contemplating using a second camera primarily for B&W.

I'm just finishing up a project right now, shot on the S1 and GH5, using GHAlex, turned out quite nice. (These are just low res grabs from frame.io) 

 

[mercer]

14 hours ago, RCV said:

wondering why not opt for the P4K instead

Although I have seen some great footage shot with the P4K, Blackmagic cameras require too many workarounds for the type of shooting I do. With IBIS and a small lens, I can steal shots in public places that wouldn't be possible with a P4K. Plus since I already have a raw shooting camera that I love, the P4K doesn't give me much that I don't already have.

[mercer]

2 minutes ago, Parker said:

I'm just finishing up a project right now, shot on the S1 and GH5, using GHAlex, turned out quite nice. (These are just low res grabs from frame.io) 

 

Looks nice, did you notice any major difference using GHAlex as opposed to the in-camera monochrome profiles or vLog turned B&W in post?