Decisions decisions

[IronFilm]

"NX500, 5Dmk3 killer?"

What drugs are they on, doesn't need to "kill" a camera much much more expensive, just needs to "kill" say the Canon 70D! Which the NX500 totally does. 

[Emanuel]

@Matthew Hartman great post, man :-)

[Matthew Hartman]

5 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

"NX500, 5Dmk3 killer?"

What drugs are they on, doesn't need to "kill" a camera much much more expensive, just needs to "kill" say the Canon 70D! Which the NX500 totally does. 

Exactly. Biased. That guy is a muppet anyway. Loves the GH4, but made fun of the NX500. Makes no damn sense to me. 

[Emanuel]

15 minutes ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Exactly. Biased. That guy is a muppet anyway. Loves the GH4, but made fun of the NX500. Makes no damn sense to me. 

He's an industry runner, that's all. BTW, pilot still stands. Nothing beats the man behind, no matter what :-)

[Matthew Hartman]

3 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

He's an industry runner, that's all. BTW, pilot still stands. Nothing beats the man behind, no matter what :-)

I couldn't have said it better, and I didn't, you did! 

[jonpais]

@Matthew Hartman Aside from Cinema 5D’s overwhelmingly negative review, I’m not seeing the hate for the NX1 that you’re referring to. Matt Granger and Philip Bloom don’t even review the camera, and TCSTV ‘s coverage seemed balanced to me, as do all their reviews. The only thing that killed the NX1 was Samsung’s management. FWIW, when the camera came out, I saw many positive reviews. my 2 cents

[Emanuel]

Jon, I think Matthew meant such ignoring mode underestimated the tool. People were surprised with Samsung's dare. Pity, ended too short.

[Mattias Burling]

Imo, compared to a 70d or any mid range DSLR the nx500 is a pretty awful camera. Saying that camera x kills camera y and rip on people that dont agree is naive at best. 

Opinions are not facts. Not Kais, mine or yours.

[Emanuel]

Correct. Horses for courses.

[Kisaha]

@Mattias Burling NX500 cost half the money of 70D and still is by vast oceans better in most things. NX1 is a direct competitor to those kind of cameras and totally annihilates them. Cameras don't kill people, people do!

@jonpais to ignore something is even worst than a bad review. Ignoring is not accepting, something ignored and not spoken for it doesn't exist. Also, the DPR review came when Samsung decided to kill the division, that same year DPR awarded NX1 as best in its class (including the 7, and 70D cameras by the way), and the 16-50S as the best lens of the year. Too late though. 

Also, when the NX500 was out, everyone laughed about the 4K crop (and the lack of EVF, which for some is a big thing I admit, not for me obviously), when the D500 came a year or two later, with a 8mgpxl smaller sensor, and a huge and heavy body with a similar crop, it became the best camera of its category.

The Cinema 5D's review was the first and influenced most the industry. DPR did the aforementioned good things about the reputation of NX1, but it was too late. Mainly it was managements fault, review of the market/trends (mobile camera phones are much more profitable), power strangle inside the company, and the such.

The camera was great though, and the system back then(and still now for the most part) had a better lens selection (and cheaper, in APS-C always) than Sony, Eos M, Nikon is not competing, and in some specific areas better even than Fuji (of course not as complete, but the S lens is unparalleled, the similar Fuji has no IS and its worst in most metrics, no native fish eye in fuji etc.)  

One of the reasons I am not changing, is because there isn't a clearly better APS-C camera right now in the market (and I am talking native APS-C), nor a better lens selection for what I DO (and I have 4 NX bodies and 7 lenses), or I have to "invest" a substantial 5 figures number to achieve something similar.

I do have the feeling that we will see something soon, maybe the new Nikon, in anyway we will see, and NX is still relevant. Remember, back then GH4 was a 16mgpxls camera, and Fuji also without doing video.

 

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I do have the feeling that we will see something soon, maybe the new Nikon, in anyway we will see, and NX is still relevant. Remember, back then GH4 was a 16mgpxls camera, and Fuji also without doing video.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe this:

 

Quote

High-end Samsung APS-C camera based on Exynos 9810 SoC.

I got to play with something insane today. Samsung Mobile (who took over the camera division) retrofitted an NX1 with a new APS-C sensor and Exynos 9810 SoC, which is rumored to launch in the Samsung S9.

30,1 megapixels sensor (6720*4480) which is stacked (3-stack FRS) ISOCELL with Tetracell and dual-pixel AF. Extremely fast readout combined with 4K 120fps h/265 encode capability enable impressive framerates
– Full sensor (6720*4480) @ 30fps
– 5376*3024 @ 60fps
– 3840*2160 @ 120fps
– 2688*1512 @ 240fps
– 1920*1080 @ 480fps
Up to 120fps should be full sensor read-out, 2.7K and 1080p at higher frame-rates is 2×2 pixel binning and then down-sampling (so full width of sensor is used up to 480fps (!).

15fps burst with mechanical shutter, 30fps RAW with electronic shutter. Practically no read-out noise so extremely ISO invariant (thanks to ISOCELL’s deep trench isolation). AF is insane with combination of dual-pixel and ‘Super PD’, which is regular in-sensor phase detection.

All features of Exynos 9810 are enabled (except a small part of GPU), so a huge amount of in-camera processing power, optional LTE-connectivity with eSIM, GNSS (GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou) for location tagging, SD 3.0 with UHS-II support for memory cards (up to 300 MB/s), Bluetooth 5 for continuous low-power connection and 802.11ac with 2×2 MIMO for fast image- and video transfer. USB 3.1 Type-C with DP enabled for uncompressed output up to 5K 30fps and 4K 60fps. There is a PCIe 3.0 x2 bus left if they decide to add something like a CFexpress card-slot, or Thunderbolt 3 or 10GbE.

Very impressive software feature was accelerometer-based shutter. You press the shutter, and the accelerometer registers the G-forces (acceleration). Then it takes a picture when the X- and Y-acceleration are closest to 0 and the Z-acceleration is closest to 1 (natural gravity). Doesn’t work perfect (you can still move without accelerating), but I was able to double to triple my handheld shutter-speed, so that means at least a stop lower ISO. Delay between pressing and shooting is about half a second, so it’s not for sports. They are working to also implement the gyroscopic data to pick the moment with the least amount of roll. This feature makes is probably to the S9.

Like I said, it’s a prototype, based on a NX1, and they don’t know yet if it will ever hit the market, but if it does it will be at least as ground breaking as the original NX1 (they were thinking about a few extra things (variable ND, IBIS, HBM2-buffer), but hey, research is expensive and upper management).

https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/good-true-high-end-samsung-aps-c-camera-based-exynos-9810-soc/

[Kisaha]

@IronFilm That seems like a NX1 mkII, alright! That's how you upgrade a camera, but I do not see becoming a reality, ever. Interesting and impressive though. The numbers are just staggering. There is no way anyone could match those specs before 2020, than Samsung itself. NX1 was that revolutionary 4 years ago, when Canon still offering very very soft 1080p, we have just a tiny smell of H265 on other cameras, menu system, ergonomics (I am sure if anyone has even hold one for a little while knows what I am talking about), and so much technology in a so cheap camera. Truth is, we do not want a NX camera every year, just a limited edition every 4 years (whatever price, I pay!) would do. And a couple of S lenses (an S ultra wide is the only thing I miss on the system).

[IronFilm]

The only hope for this happening is if Samsung decides it is a good idea to do a limited release to showcase the power of the Samsung processor, purely as a promotional tool to promote Samsung smartphone sales!

An unlikely but not impossible scenario. 

 

 

10 hours ago, Kisaha said:

And a couple of S lenses (an S ultra wide is the only thing I miss on the system).

At least with UWA lenses the DoF is so deep it isn't unreasonable to just use a manual focus lens instead of a native lens with AF. 

So out of all the lenses for Samsung NX system to miss out on, this is the least of a person's worries. Phew

[jonpais]

21 hours ago, Kisaha said:

@Mattias Burling NX500 cost half the money of 70D and still is by vast oceans better in most things. NX1 is a direct competitor to those kind of cameras and totally annihilates them. Cameras don't kill people, people do!

@jonpais to ignore something is even worst than a bad review. Ignoring is not accepting, something ignored and not spoken for it doesn't exist. Also, the DPR review came when Samsung decided to kill the division, that same year DPR awarded NX1 as best in its class (including the 7, and 70D cameras by the way), and the 16-50S as the best lens of the year. Too late though. 

Also, when the NX500 was out, everyone laughed about the 4K crop (and the lack of EVF, which for some is a big thing I admit, not for me obviously), when the D500 came a year or two later, with a 8mgpxl smaller sensor, and a huge and heavy body with a similar crop, it became the best camera of its category.

The Cinema 5D's review was the first and influenced most the industry. DPR did the aforementioned good things about the reputation of NX1, but it was too late. Mainly it was managements fault, review of the market/trends (mobile camera phones are much more profitable), power strangle inside the company, and the such.

The camera was great though, and the system back then(and still now for the most part) had a better lens selection (and cheaper, in APS-C always) than Sony, Eos M, Nikon is not competing, and in some specific areas better even than Fuji (of course not as complete, but the S lens is unparalleled, the similar Fuji has no IS and its worst in most metrics, no native fish eye in fuji etc.)  

One of the reasons I am not changing, is because there isn't a clearly better APS-C camera right now in the market (and I am talking native APS-C), nor a better lens selection for what I DO (and I have 4 NX bodies and 7 lenses), or I have to "invest" a substantial 5 figures number to achieve something similar.

I do have the feeling that we will see something soon, maybe the new Nikon, in anyway we will see, and NX is still relevant. Remember, back then GH4 was a 16mgpxls camera, and Fuji also without doing video.

 

A boy was found dead hanging from a tree in deeply segregated Mississipi - lynching

mob - a horde or throng of people

mob lynching by the media is a gross misrepresentation. One seriously unfavorabe review is not a mob. And not a single person in the comments section of Cinema5D’s test agreed with the findings.

This is rewriting history.

It might be more challenging to prove that the media ignored the camera. I recall reading many positive reviews at the time the NX1 was released. In fact, the camera received glowing reviews from some of the most respected names in the business.

It would be an even greater challenge to prove the NX1 was killed by lack of attention. 

Many cameras continue to be produced by much smaller companies than Samsung. Kinefinity. The LS300. Cameras which receive next to no notice whatsoever.

What killed the NX1 was not mob lynching or lack of media attention, but Samsung’s decision to withdraw from the consumer camera market space.

Photographers do not easily switch brands overnight when they have thousands of dollars invested in glass, especially a system with  little or no compatibility. 

Let’s not overdramatize events. Samsung themselves said the reason for their discontinuation of the camera division was a gradual decline in demand for standalone digital cameras and camcorders.

Aside from that, I enjoyed reading @Matthew Hartman‘s comments.

[Arikhan]

59 minutes ago, jonpais said:

What killed the NX1 was not mob lynching or lack of media attention, but Samsung’s decision to withdraw from the consumer camera market space.

[...]

Let’s not overdramatize events. Samsung themselves said the reason for their discontinuation of the camera division was a gradual decline in demand for standalone digital cameras and camcorders.

This!

Years after retirement, there would be many NX legends out there. The NX1 is a great camera, without doubt. But different attempts to inthronizate it as victim of Samsung mismanagement or victim of different (more or less) negative reviews are simply BS - and useles BTW. Alternative facts...

If anything, the NX series is a victim of REALITY...Not the self proclaimed reality of the parallel online world, but "real reality"...

[IronFilm]

59 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Many cameras continue to be produced by much smaller companies than Samsung. Kinefinity. The LS300. Cameras which receive next to no notice whatsoever.

 

I'd make the counterpoint that it is easier for a cinema camera which appeals to a niche market to thrive and remain viable than a mass market stills consumer camera.

[Kisaha]

..and I quote muself "...mainly it was managements fault, review of the market/trends (mobile camera phones are much more profitable), power strangle inside the company, and the such.".

Here, the main reasons already said.

[Matthew Hartman]

13 hours ago, jonpais said:

A boy was found dead hanging from a tree in deeply segregated Mississipi - lynching

mob - a horde or throng of people

mob lynching by the media is a gross misrepresentation. One seriously unfavorabe review is not a mob. And not a single person in the comments section of Cinema5D’s test agreed with the findings.

This is rewriting history.

It might be more challenging to prove that the media ignored the camera. I recall reading many positive reviews at the time the NX1 was released. In fact, the camera received glowing reviews from some of the most respected names in the business.

It would be an even greater challenge to prove the NX1 was killed by lack of attention. 

Many cameras continue to be produced by much smaller companies than Samsung. Kinefinity. The LS300. Cameras which receive next to no notice whatsoever.

What killed the NX1 was not mob lynching or lack of media attention, but Samsung’s decision to withdraw from the consumer camera market space.

Photographers do not easily switch brands overnight when they have thousands of dollars invested in glass, especially a system with  little or no compatibility. 

Let’s not overdramatize events. Samsung themselves said the reason for their discontinuation of the camera division was a gradual decline in demand for standalone digital cameras and camcorders.

Aside from that, I enjoyed reading @Matthew Hartman‘s comments.

Alright sir, as rare an occurance as this will be I publicly detract my definition of how I described my interpretations as a "lynch mobbing". My intent is exactly how two ppl here speculated it to be which is more of a "blackout" or ignoring than a mobbing.

I normally don't defend my adjectives in passing or casual chat, but since you took considerable time and effort to repute them I would feel bad not to respond. ?

Whatever you want to label it as, the NX1, like Kinefinity products, did not get the attention it deserved, which did not help the camera's plight much. But again, to be crystal clear, most of the blame lies squarely on Sansung's shoulders. I tried like the dickens to appeal to the company which fell on deaf ears.

I've learned through the process and having partnered with them in the past that Samsung does what it wants to and does not justify anything it does unless its something like an exploding battery in one of their top tier products. They have the resources to do so. 

I don't know if it's customary to South Korean business/commerce, but Samsung is the type of company that can't either confirm or deny it's projections. This contributes to a ton of false hopes and speculation. 

I've been in the professional tech world for over 25 years now. One thing is clear to me. When Samsung does something, they're competitors get weak in the knees, and they should, because their own product is about be rendered a paperweight. Microsoft figured out long ago if you cant beat them you join them. 

The reviewers I linked above were absolutely foolish to ignore anything coming from Samsung. They allowed their biases to get the best of them. It's really that simple. I guess I have the advatange of being in both digital tech and camera tech to see this from a wider perspective. 

I would challenge anyone to open up any tech device and see if they can't find at least one component made by Samsung. 

[Emanuel]

20 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I'd make the counterpoint that it is easier for a cinema camera which appeals to a niche market to thrive and remain viable than a mass market stills consumer camera.

And that Samsung incursion was somewhat quite of an achievement... forgotten by the media. No matter how idle that lack of perspective on future still stands for their earlier adopters, after all.

[Mattias Burling]

On 2018-02-05 at 10:11 AM, Kisaha said:

@Mattias Burling NX500 cost half the money of 70D and still is by vast oceans better in most things in my humble opinion and according to my personal needs. NX1 is a direct competitor to those kind of cameras and totally annihilates them if one uses them for what I do. For you and others it might suck. Cameras don't kill people, people do!

I fixed it.