The simple thing the GH5 does not seem to achieve: the magic of the GH2

[PannySVHS]

Please take my headline with a blinking eye:) With the GH5 a whole new crowd of videofans are doing their short seqences of slowmotion and IBIS demonstration. But indeed most of these pieces in my opinion don´t show subjects of visual interest but random results of moving hair and moving girls heads and lips and eyes from all so common angles with nothing in the frame but the slomo victim, may it be human, flower or the elements of nature. Any of these shots taken as a still put on a wall would make a mediocore choice.

Here is a video showing what the GH5 does not seem to enable shooters of the vimeo universe to achieve: simple choice of subject, disciplined lens and framing choice, intriguing but simple editing. Here it goes, the magic of GH2 makes it possible: staying true to the form, perfection in length!! , framing, subject and rhythm, composition in color and geometry. With the most common choice of subject, the human gestalt and the very common context of fashion.

 

 

[mercer]

Obviously, the GH2 has a little bit of a head start but yes, there seems to be a different level of filmmaking that occurred 4-5 years ago compared to today.

I think it’s a combination of beliefs and methods that forced people to be creative with what they had, the limitations created aesthetic opportunities, but these limitations also kept the membership much smaller...

Now with the advancements, a lot more people have decided to give it a try. On eBay alone I have seen about 6 GH5s up for sale in the past month where the seller said they bought it because they decided they wanted to make music videos or short films but have since moved on to other interests.

When the tech becomes more important than the content, there will be an influx of mediocrity. 

With that being said, I have seen a ton of nice GH5 work, but I’ve also seen a ton of nice t2i work and with all of the tech and visual enhancements of new cameras, I cannot say that the GH5 videos are better than the t2i or the GH1 videos I’ve seen.

Hell, look at Kendy Ty... his films have gotten worse since he moved on from the t2i. Other’s films have gotten better.

Interesting post.

[Cinegain]

Should check out some fashion films on Vimeo... e.g.

Thing is... at the time of the GH2, normal folks weren't really looking for an 'in' to cinematography, just us enthusiasts and perhaps professionals that would love to either get into it affordably... or just because of the compact factor. And that was pretty close to the 5DmkII and T2i/550D boom that made us focus on these kind of cameras. These days, especially with vloggers using DSLRs and mirrorless cams, we've been seeing everyone doing test videos and that's the thing that get searched for most as well, because people are still looking for their 'in' right now, now that this method of shooting has evolved. Andrew, Caleb, Dave didn't have a GH5 guide out that quick, so then every n3wb had their chance to play important and release reviews and recommendations about stuff they actually hardly know a thing about. And it has become way more accessible as well, so there's just more people getting into it... but nobody really knows what they want to do with it... so you have people with 0 knowledge and 0 experience, but this camera and all they can come up with is shooting test videos, figuring things out. That's not a very good measurement to base anything on however. The GH5 is undoubtedly more capable than the GH2 was and WILL in the right hands, be a much better tool with better results.

Though yeah, when there was this 'pick one camera for the rest of your shooting' or something, the GH2 was the one I picked. Just because you only had the basics to worry about and because it really was my first interchangeable lens camera, which I bonded with and learned from so so much. But nostalgia has little to do with how a camera actually performs or what it is capable of. That's still down to the person operating it.

[webrunner5]

I would argue that things look too good with the newer cameras. Now I guess if you are doing a video in a hospital for learning surgical procedures, operations, or interviews you need it to be sharp as a tack, but for a movie look you might as well save your money and buy a Sony F3 or a C300, BMPCC, GH2, etc... Taking a GH5 and adding noise or grain to it seems, well seems silly.

But I can see how it is sort of a poor man's one size does it all camera. But calling it a Cine camera is not what I have seen out of it. A GH4, GH3 was not either.

To me the Only newer camera that looks good, no great is the Arri Alexa.

[PannySVHS]

@mercer exactly, profound analysis. It took cinegain digging into 6months old vimeo posts to find a decent GH5 video. I found the cinematographer with the GH2 on the first page with vimeosearch by date, just searching for GH2.

@Cinegain, first example is long, and seemingley milking the concept without offering much visual interest in doing so, 2min seems bloated to me.  Tonal gradation more nuanced in the hightlights than what typical GH2 videos show. It is  not offering cinematography but photography rather so, with all that slow and unspecific movement. Second video looks colorwise like osiris lut has been used. I have seen only super few GH5 videos that have wowed me due to the generic approach in all departments of cinematography, lack coming from users side.

Here is another nice one from the same  cinematographer. 36 seconds of well chosen angles, framing, subject distance, distinct choice and parts of movements. Even in slomo:) Also Shows great understanding of the basic graphic principles and works them to the best effect.

 

 

[Cinegain]

Wasn't digging. I just put in 'Fashion film GH5', lol. But I get what you mean.

- Best stuff might've come from folks that happen to be on EOSHD as well. Luke Neumann and Albert Fast too. Guess that's something we can be proud of as a community.

[PannySVHS]

5 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Wasn't digging. I just put in 'Fashion film GH5', lol. But I get what you mean.

shoot, out of likes for today

[Damphousse]

4 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

 

@Cinegain, first example is long, and seemingley milking the concept without offering much visual interest in doing so, 2min seems bloated to me.  Tonal gradation more nuanced in the hightlights than what typical GH2 videos show. It is  not offering cinematography but photography rather so, with all that slow and unspecific movement. Second video looks colorwise like osiris lut has been used. I have seen only super few GH5 videos that have wowed me due to the generic approach in all departments of cinematography, lack coming from users side.

Valid criticisms but content aside though it is very good work.  You have to separate content from technical quality.  Nothing about those clips made me nostalgic for the GH2.

Having said that the studio shoot had crazy controlled lighting so there really shouldn't have been any dynamic range or roll off issues.  Not exactly a stress test.  Obviously the second video was a stress test.  Highlights weren't as quite as nice as some other cameras but I don't know if it was the grade or what.  But the highlights didn't blow like crap there way they usually do with these DSLR cameras.

Color looked good.  Very serviceable.

Given all the video convinces and what the camera is capable in competent hands I see no reason to even think about the GH2.  If people aren't creative with the GH5 it ain't the camera.

[mat33]

I think what we see with the GH5 et al is the result of a lack of intent when shooting. The shoot now and use all the bells and whistles the camera has, and then worry about putting it all together into something coherent at the computer later on. 

[austinchimp]

@PannySVHS I think think what you're noticing is more a change in the type of projects you're finding on Vimeo over anything which reflects the cameras themselves. Everything you mentioned in your original post is to do with behind the camera or in front of the camera, not the camera's actual capabilities.

The GH5 is obviously a vastly superior camera in virtually every aspect. However it has become more common to shoot and upload short, no budget, aimless camera tests / home movies these days than it was in the days of the GH2. I know because I do it myself.

I also think it's very hard to judge a camera based on what you find on Youtube or Vimeo. The projects where the camera is used most professionally are probably commercial or professional productions for brands which don't put 'GH5' in the tags. Again I know this from experience. None of the higher level professional work I do goes on my own channels, and the last thing big brands are concerned about is tagging the make of the camera it was shot with.

Speaking for myself, if you do this for a job, 5 days a week, what goes on your personal Vimeo channel tends to be a bit more slapdash and aimless because you're doing it to experiment and relax, rather than produce your best work.

Having said that, I was looking at some old GH2 footage the other day and was struck by how natural and beautiful the colour was straight out of the camera.

[Sage]

4 hours ago, austinchimp said:

Having said that, I was looking at some old GH2 footage the other day and was struck by how natural and beautiful the colour was straight out of the camera.

Yes, the native GH2 color (with Smooth -2 and Flomo 2) is better than the GH5s native color. I will never sell my GH2, just because of its significance to me. Maybe I will do a GH5 > GH2 conversion for a bit of fun & nostalgia haha

 

[maxotics]

I must play my tiresome part here   Of course a lot of GH2 footage, from years ago, looks better.  It's before the mass over-use of V-LOG gamma profiles that kill color tonality.  That said, the GH5 4K in a standard, or very gentle LOG gamma, is a sweet image indeed!

[jonpais]

I'm not seeing this superiority of GH2 image quality over the GH5. Just give it time, @PannySVHS. To my eyes, the GH5 is magic.

[Sage]

17 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I'm not seeing this superiority of GH2 image quality over the GH5. Just give it time, @PannySVHS. To my eyes, the GH5 is magic.

Indeed, the image quality of the GH5 is much better than the GH2

[mercer]

I don’t know... I wonder if someone shot the same exact footage with a hacked GH2 and with a GH5, how the results would be. I almost think we may be surprised by how well the GH2 footage holds up and with the right operator, like Seb Farges or James Miller, the GH2 footage may be superior in certain aspects.

1 hour ago, Sage said:

Yes, the native GH2 color (with Smooth -2 and Flomo 2) is better than the GH5s native color. I will never sell my GH2, just because of its significance to me. Maybe I will do a GH5 > GH2 conversion for a bit of fun & nostalgia haha

 

These look really good. Are they both hacked GH2? I particularly like Victim... of course the first scene seems unnecessary... but that’s neither here nor there. And in some ways, I like the look of Victim more than I like Emotion II... but that looks great too... really nice work all around!!!

[Sage]

14 minutes ago, mercer said:

I don’t know... I wonder if someone shot the same exact footage with a hacked GH2 and with a GH5, how the results would be. I almost think we may be surprised by how well the GH2 footage holds up and with the right operator, like Seb Farges or James Miller, the GH2 footage may be superior in certain aspects.

Yea, the Gh2 native color is definitely better, *especially under tungsten. With the dynamic range, bit-depth, and resolving power of the GH5, the potential is akin to a cinema cam. The color is a malleable 'chameleon'

14 minutes ago, mercer said:

These look really good. Are they both hacked GH2? I particularly like Victim... of course the first scene seems unnecessary... but that’s neither here nor there. And in some ways, I like the look of Victim more than I like Emotion II... but that looks great too... really nice work all around!!!

Thanks Mercer, they are both hacked Gh2, though Dani was only with my own slow motion patch, otherwise unhacked.

Indeed, Victim is a more carefully done muted cinema approach to color and light, while E2 has the rougher pop-inspired, unlit approach of its predecessor. With GHa (and what's next), I'm going to do a narrative in the muted cinema style. It will be something to see ; )

[mercer]

@Sage I love that muted cinema look. I am working hard trying to find the balance between the muted cinema look while still preserving the tonality nuances  of my 14bit ML Raw footage. I have more failures than successes... LOL. 

[Brother]

Buy a GH5/80D/A7R, buy a couple of luts and you're a cinematographer. It's the dream being sold right now, and business is booming! Has there ever been so many selling their own LUTs and presets than now, with the promise of instant cinematic success? The idea that the latest gear and post production shortcuts being the most important tools for creation have never been so strong.

Don't know how i feel about it but that's where we are. Many are perfectly satisfied with buying the latest gear, auto exposure, auto white balance, auto focus, add m31 lut, export and upload. Because you know, that's how the big Youtubers do it.

Im guilty myself of getting the latest gear and shooting IBIS and slow motion demonstrations, but that's because i have GAS and can't control myself. Also, I have a life long obsession of finding the true meaning of "organic" and applying it to my own stuff.

[jonpais]

Not sure I'm understanding correctly.... filmmakers use cameras. Colorists use LUTs. Some people rely on auto exposure. And? To suggest anyone thinks there are shortcuts to creating the next 8-1/2 seems overly simplistic. I'm sure that's not what you're getting at...

[PannySVHS]

Hey guys, great posts in this thread. One thing, I actually DID put the shooter in the center of my piece, just in an overly calm way of wording. My own words from my original post: "With the GH5 a whole new crowd of videofans are doing their short seqences of slowmotion and IBIS demonstration..." Oh, how I love to cite myself:)

@Sage nice lensing and framing and great color out of your GH2. I like your emotion 2 montage, links into some great GH5 color moments here, awesome montage as well. I do think that too, that GH2 with the right lens choices and profile and WB has really nice color.

One thing, GH2 shooters always lead me to the most interesting material of pure camerawork: framing, lensing, color contrast- palette- and composition,  composition of objects, subject/object choice, camera movement and speed and point of view and distance, lighting. That is so to say what the GH5 lacks the most, this kind of library.

By the way, maybe a bit unexpected, a guess the camera game. I suggest without browsing his materail for an easy solution. I expect @mercer  to fall for some temptation of purchase again:)