Panasonic GH5S 4K / 240fps low light monster

[PannySVHS]

I would indeed preorder the GH5s with a full VLOG curve and zero sharpening. Good thing I have a reason to save my money:)

 

13 minutes ago, mercer said:

I agree, no IBIS should have equated to yes internal NDs. That would have been an acceptable trade off. 

Full VLOG and zero sharpening for that true varicam image would have been the perfect trade off for me. Maybe I just get a 5D3 instead. I will see. First got to get the tedious editing process for my short done before startin anything new. Haven´t even shot my G7 yet besides a blank wall in CineD profile, seriously!

Edit: Muaha, I just imagined buying a GH5 or GH5s and just shooting a test with it but prefering to take my G6 with me instead as my every day cam, because I don´t want to run around with valuables. GH5s collecting dust in the locker in front of the wall, which I shot for my CineD test

 

[Emanuel]

27 minutes ago, mercer said:

Okay, fair enough... I’m... sorry you feel that way? But to be more fair... I could argue that you use people’s proper names in an attempt at some sort of paradoxical condescension...

No, buddy, because I use my 1st real name too, other than referring you by your family name instead and know your posts for a considerable time now : ) No hard feelings mate, I'm used to read you for awhile and address you as well some other usual suspects <3 here : )) Well, what am I mentioning here? Nothing you hadn't noticed it before, isn't it my dear fellow of these boards? :-)

[webrunner5]

Something to chew on.

[mercer]

1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

No buddy, because I use my 1st real name too, other than referring you by your family name, and know your posts for a considerable time now : ) No hard feelings mate, I'm used to read you for awhile and address you and other usual posters here : )) Well, what am I mentioning here? Nothing you hadn't noticed it before, isn't it my dear fellow of board? :-)

Haha, just keeping it lighthearted. The truth is this... every shooter has different needs or wants in a camera... sometimes it’s professional and sometimes it’s personal. I think Fuzzynormal, amongst others, have said it dozens of times... basically any camera is good enough nowadays. So whatever feature gets you up in the morning dying to shoot with that camera, then good on you and shoot with that camera. 

[Emanuel]

34 minutes ago, mercer said:

It’s okay though... I added a winky face.

@Emanuel

 

hehe ;-)

27 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Something to chew on.

Don, great find! (y) 

21 minutes ago, mercer said:

I think Fuzzynormal (...)

Chance to add my vote for Andrew starting to adopt the real names policy à la reduser forum. And increase the daily quota for more than a dozen of likes restriction BTW (I've just spent my last one with Don, sorry Glenn! :-)

[jonpais]

Some notes from Mystery Box on dual ISO, the importance of getting white balance correct in camera and how to get the greatest dynamic range when shooting V-Log for HDR delivery:

ISO & Dynamic Range Note
The camera has two native ISOs: 400 and 2500.  Plan on filming using one of these two ISOs, as they offer the greatest dynamic range.

The camera works by rating the sensor at one of these two ISOs and then virtually adjusting the ISO to your selected ISO.  When possible, the camera selects a native ISO greater than the selected ISO, i.e. ISO 400 for ISO ranges 160-400, and ISO 2500 for all ISOs greater than 500.

For instance, if you select an ISO of 800, the camera operates internally at 2500, and selects for the brighter portions of the range for a dynamic range loss of 1.64 stops, lowering your clipping white point.  When selecting an ISO of 5000, the camera again operates internally at ISO 2500, and selects for the darker portions of the range, resulting in a dynamic range loss of 1 stop, and increasing the signal to noise ratio.

You can calculate the dynamic range loss with the following two equations.  Notice the applicable ISO ranges.

Rated ISO is lower than the native ISO (ISO 160-320, 500-2000):
Stops of dynamic range lost = (LOG (Native ISO [400 or 2500] / Selected ISO)) / LOG 2

Rated ISO is greater than the native ISO (ISO 3200-51200):
Stops of dynamic range lost = (LOG (Selected ISO / Native ISO [2500])) / LOG 2

When the selected ISO is greater than native ISO, stops lost can be converted into an equivalent decrease in the signal to noise ratio, where each 1 stop equates to a -6dB loss in SNR.

When shooting for HDR10, you want the camera to capture as much of the available dynamic range as it can for you to work with later in post-production. As a result, plan on rating the sensor at either ISO 400 or 2500.

White Balance Note
It’s essential that you capture the image with as close to perfect white balance as you can.  While there are small corrections you can apply in post production, improper white balance usually results in a 1-2 stop loss of dynamic range and a compression of the available colors.

Source

[mercer]

31 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

hehe ;-)

Don, great find! (y) 

Chance to add my vote for Andrew starting to adopt the real names policy à la reduser forum. And increase the daily quota for more than a dozen of likes restriction BTW (I've just spent my last one with Don, sorry Glenn! :-)

No, I’m pretty sure his name is Mr. Fuzzynormal.

[Emanuel]

40 minutes ago, mercer said:

No, I’m pretty sure his name is Mr. Fuzzynormal.

haha well put, pal, I told you, your hilarious entries have gotten me! :-)

45 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Some notes from Mystery Box on dual ISO, the importance of getting white balance correct in camera and how to get the greatest dynamic range when shooting V-Log for HDR delivery:

ISO & Dynamic Range Note
The camera has two native ISOs: 400 and 2500.  Plan on filming using one of these two ISOs, as they offer the greatest dynamic range.

The camera works by rating the sensor at one of these two ISOs and then virtually adjusting the ISO to your selected ISO.  When possible, the camera selects a native ISO greater than the selected ISO, i.e. ISO 400 for ISO ranges 160-400, and ISO 2500 for all ISOs greater than 500.

For instance, if you select an ISO of 800, the camera operates internally at 2500, and selects for the brighter portions of the range for a dynamic range loss of 1.64 stops, lowering your clipping white point.  When selecting an ISO of 5000, the camera again operates internally at ISO 2500, and selects for the darker portions of the range, resulting in a dynamic range loss of 1 stop, and increasing the signal to noise ratio.

You can calculate the dynamic range loss with the following two equations.  Notice the applicable ISO ranges.

Rated ISO is lower than the native ISO (ISO 160-320, 500-2000):
Stops of dynamic range lost = (LOG (Native ISO [400 or 2500] / Selected ISO)) / LOG 2

Rated ISO is greater than the native ISO (ISO 3200-51200):
Stops of dynamic range lost = (LOG (Selected ISO / Native ISO [2500])) / LOG 2

When the selected ISO is greater than native ISO, stops lost can be converted into an equivalent decrease in the signal to noise ratio, where each 1 stop equates to a -6dB loss in SNR.

When shooting for HDR10, you want the camera to capture as much of the available dynamic range as it can for you to work with later in post-production. As a result, plan on rating the sensor at either ISO 400 or 2500.

White Balance Note
It’s essential that you capture the image with as close to perfect white balance as you can.  While there are small corrections you can apply in post production, improper white balance usually results in a 1-2 stop loss of dynamic range and a compression of the available colors.

Source

Done with my quota of likes for today, here's my public/personal thanks for so interesting info added here, Jon :-) 

That's quite of a camera this beast Panasonic has invented for more than half a grand they should charge for, I say.

Tell me about another manufacturer offering Dual Native ISO under 5 digits and a 2nd camera model for a fraction (a quarter BTW) of it, Glenn! @mercer  

That NY noiseless footage has sold me enough for my pre-order or whatever they call it.

So long 500 bucks! :-D

[jonpais]

FWIW, Mystery Box never questions claims of 14 stops of dynamic range. Though,  like I said before, I could care less about specs. Mystery Box produce some dazzling HDR content: they’ve got both technical chops and, from time to time, they produce some virtuosic camerawork. But I don’t need to take their word for it - for one thing, I already own the GH5. For another, Wex Photographic’s ‘Slovenia’. Oh, and $2,500.00 USD is not overpriced for a camera of this calibre. Unless you’re still only charging $200 for a wedding!

[Rinad Amir]

Cant wait! to try it out with Oly 25mm 1.2 and Noc 42,5 1.2 as i do alot of indoor shoots its shame about IBIS 

[Emanuel]

12 minutes ago, jonpais said:

FWIW, Mystery Box never questions claims of 14 stops of dynamic range. Though,  like I said before, I could care less about specs. Mystery Box produce some dazzling HDR content: they’ve got both technical chops and, from time to time, they produce some virtuosic camerawork. But I don’t need to take their word for it - for one thing, I already own the GH5. For another, Wex Photographic’s ‘Slovenia’. Oh, and $2,500.00 USD is not overpriced for a camera of this calibre. Unless you’re still only charging $200 for a wedding!

It's a steal as matter of fact. Just wondering where and why they charge a premium (5x VLog add-on) for a bit less when they've subtracted IBIS from their original GH5 package. When we'll probably see it in a couple of years with the upcoming GH6s.  

[jonpais]

I don’t spend hours each day trolling Blackmagic, Fuji, Sony, Olympus and Canon threads. Not sure why anyone would keep repeating over and over again in every Panasonic thread how great Canon is, and that they’d get a C200 if they could. We get it already. 

[PannySVHS]

46 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I don’t spend hours each day trolling Blackmagic, Fuji, Sony, Olympus and Canon threads. Not sure why anyone would keep repeating over and over again in every Panasonic thread how great Canon is, and that they’d get a C200 if they could. We get it already. 

Muaha, Jon, please. The only ones trolling around this thread are the A7s2 ambassadors. They are not trolls, because they like a camera. They are putting an impression on me like they were trolls, because they keep repeating the same unfactual statements over and over again. One of the trolls regarding another subject finally hast started to behave very nicely. He has become one of the biggest admirers of Sigma and Veydra lenses now and has been complimenting you work like many of us. So things are still very nice on this forum:) Here is a video with beautiful out of the box aja cion colors, reminds me of the Varicam LT signature despite its 2 stops less DR:

 

[jonpais]

Re: the supposedly over-processed, over-sharpened images of the GH* cameras. What I am seeing in Wex Photographic's marvelous Slovenia video are incredibly subtle color, dreamy out-of-focus rendition, well-controlled highlight roll off and squeaky-clean high ISO performance. Most likely posted before, but worth watching again. And again.

 

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Only thing maybe the EVA has over the GH5s is is Maybe can do Raw down the road,

Built in NDs. 
SDI outputs. 
Better TC implementation. 
Etc...

People forget what a difference the rest of these can make!

9 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Of course it is worse from 20000 on and much worse from 25600 and even much more so from 51200 on for NIGHTWATCH NO LIGHT purposes. It has  better lowlight than a a6500, so you guys come up with a A7sii. It beats it at 6400iso for Cinema purposes! Stop complaining, please.

I'd bet in post once you push the files around then at 20000 the GH5S will be better than the a7Smk2

The a7Smk2 only looks better at the super high ISO ratings if you're doing straight out camera with no/minimal post work. 

And seriously if you're shooting GH5 at 20000 and that is not enough, what the hell?? That is the same as freaking 80000 on the a7Smk2 for the same DoF!!!

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

A7Sii is applying a lot of noise reduction and giving us artefacts  from 12800 upwards in low light. GH5s gives a better lowlight image at ISO 6400, same at 12800, slightly less at 20000, 2 stops less at 102400. There is an obvious nonlinearity in the numbers. Both images from 16000ISO  on would rather not be used for cinema projection. GH5s beat it at 6400. At lower ISO it´s even so much better than A7s, it´s not funny any more.

When can split hairs about that number, you say 1600 ISO, I might say 3200 ISO, a clean ISO nerd might say 800 is their max (!!). Some bold fellow might even be perfectly happy with 6400. 

But the core point remains: the GH5S is *better* at lowlight for any ISO level you'd actually use! (as we're never going over 12800 ISO on the GH5S, especially once DoF is matched)

 

 

 

9 hours ago, eleison said:

The best thing about the sony a7sii for me is that I can "f8 and be there" almost in all lighting situations. 

Good news, you can run the GH5S at F4 with the lovely 12-60mm f2.8-f4 and also "just be there" in all lighting situations! And it will look better than the a7Smk2 does at f8

 

9 hours ago, eleison said:

... but, it's good in low light.. not the greatest.. but good... 

Nope, GH5S is going to be better in lowlight than the a7Smk2!


 

9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

but I agree with you this new camera is as good as a A7s at 25,000 ISO. It is pretty crazy. The Sony then pulls ahead. But who the hell shoots any higher than 25,000.

I have been saying for a long time that "shoots lowlight" is a feature that has been ticked off for ages  now.

Any one remember the bad old days of a DVX100 or later say EX1? No wonder everyone was obsessed with better lowlight!

That all changed with the HDSLR Revolution. Even the old ancient GH2 wasn't so bad:
 

 

Now the GH5S puts the final nail in that coffin of "needing lowlight!! (and the a7Smk1 put the last few nails already, but the GH5S is the final nail!)

It is over. The mission is complete! Let's stop talking about lowlight now. 

And instead focus on more important features we want. 

Such as built in NDs on a GH series camera ;-) :-D

[webrunner5]

You make some damn good points in the above reply's IronFilm. This new GH5s is really a kick ass camera for the money. Yeah no IBIS is sort of ouch, but overall this is all anyone can expect for less than 5 grand and even more, other than like you said, ND Filters.

If I was thinking of buying a EVA1, or even renting one, I would highly consider this. I think it is that good. I think most could live with the lacking what the EVA1 offers other than maybe the 14 stops of DR. And that is yet to be proven what the GH5s really does have. I just don't thing the ND filters are enough on the EVA1.

[IronFilm]

9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I would argue this camera is a bigger breakthrough than the A7s was. Is is a little ass sensor doing as good as a big ass senor, so that does defy Physics.

At the very least it will shut up many a7S fanboys who look down on Panasonic users! For that I alone I am super grateful :-D

Plus giving us TC for the first time just makes me doubly gratefully to Panasonic!   You stole my heart guys (but you had it already!). 

http://ironfilm.co.nz/leaked-the-specs-of-the-panasonic-gh5s-finally-we-get-the-first-stills-camera-with-timecode-i-o/

 

 

[webrunner5]

I find the Line in input very interesting also. Yeah TC for a Audio guy is sort of a Big thing LoL. AND TC works through the HDMI cable out also I heard on the Camera TV Store live thingy.

[noone]

I like both Pana and Sony.

I agree this is a wonderful camera.

I disagree it is better than an A7s in low light from what I have seen posted and from early reviews.    That it is getting mentioned with the A7s or low light is prizes enough given the small sensor.  

For video if you shoot up to 6400 often, get this, if you  shoot 12800 often, maybe get this but above that, get a recent FF camera or A7sii

For stills, I will stick with the A7s and use whatever ISO I want and whatever F stop I want.    Including high isos at fast apertures even with infinite DOF.  I would like one of these to replace my GX7 though.