Panasonic GH5S 4K / 240fps low light monster

[seku]

Guys ... please don't confuse those talks about +2stops or +3.5 stops on the GH5s with dynamic range. Those reviewers just say that the GH5s is that much cleaner than the GH5 with ISO pushed. not DR.

As stated multiple times :

Vlog can store 14+ stops. EVA1 stiff.

Vlog-l can store 12 stops. end of it. for GH5 and GH5s.

But there is a difference of usable stops in Vlog-l and stored stops. A few months back i found Wolfcrow's IRE tests on the GH5 quite illuminating. I recommend watching the whole video before debating Vlog-l. And i can fully see the GH5s go deeper, pushing a lot more signal/noise out of the low IRE. (for the GH5, his tests show no image information below 15-20 IRE, valuable detail above 30 IRE). If the GH5s can push deeper, you will get your enhanced DR, but still in the 12 stop envelope.

I am eagerly awaiting his tests.

[mercer]

@seku I’m sure there will be plenty of comparison videos popping up with all things being unequal to prove some irrelevant point while getting plenty of YouTube views.

18 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

yep, that’s possible. and check this out... this is from the GH5, and recently posted on facebook to make the point that you can adjust the highlight knee, but if you showed these to someone without that info they’d assume one had higher dynamic range.

Hmm, pretty interesting... didn’t realize the highlight/shadow adjustment would have any affect on the knee of V-Log L but yes... no extra DR but it does soften that “blown out” window pretty nicely. 

One of the reasons I went 5D3 instead of GH5 (I had both in my cart for days) was the horrendous roll off of the GH5... amongst other things. But this is a pretty nifty setting to trick the knee. I’m still sticking with the 5D3 though.  Lol. 

Also, I imagine the highlight adjustment could be a timesaver for post when creating window masks?

[TrueIndigo]

I brought the in-camera highlight curve down a bit on the lowly G7 which I thought helped highlight roll-off with the more fragile 8-bit image.

 

[Thpriest]

1 hour ago, jase said:

true.

Original question: Am I right in saying that the IS in Canon lenses will work with a speedbooster?

Gh5s: So maybe the Canon 17-55 2.8 with IS with the 0.71 Speedbooster might make a good match and make up for the lack of IBIS handheld? I have no idea what focal range becomes! 22-65mm? F2? I also have a Canon 18-135 3.5-5.6 IS which would be a 24-150? F2.8-4??

Dunno if it's worth while compared to the Gh5 with the Sigma 18-35 for low light. It would be interesting to see.

[mercer]

23 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

This makes you wonder if Panasonic chose not to allow it to have 13.5 stops to protect the EVA-1's 14 stop advantage. If that did happen, than I dont blame Panasonic. The GH5-S already already outperforms the EVA-1 in noise and high ISO. (I dont think the EVA-1 uses a Sony sensor)

Again, this is an unfair comparison, full V-Log has zero in camera noise reduction or sharpening.

I was pretty hard on the EVA1 but after seeing some recent videos, specifically Bloom’s review sample, I am pretty much blown away by the colors. If I had that kind of dough, I’d still choose the C200, but I get why that Varicam LT sensor is held in such high regard. 

[Zak Forsman]

21 minutes ago, mercer said:

Again, this is an unfair comparison, full V-Log has zero in camera noise reduction or sharpening.

1

yeah, don't know if this has been confirmed yet (and I certainly haven't seen for myself) but word I'm hearing is that the GH5S employs noise reduction at higher ISOs. The EVA1 doesn't, letting you dial in the amount of NR you want perfectly in post.

 

 

[noone]

4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

No the GH5s has 14 stops. And how do you know sharpening Is going on. I have see two videos with side buy side and I think the GH5s looks better. I am sure we all are a bit wonky with all of this,. It will take a week or two before all the real facts come out, but I agree with you this new camera is as good as a A7s at 25,000 ISO. It is pretty crazy. The Sony then pulls ahead. But who the hell shoots any higher than 25,000.

I do all the time, 25600 is common.        More so when I need a faster shutter speed in low light (EG a fast paced rock band).      For stills and video I use auto ISO set to either 102400 or 51200.      I will take lower whenever possible but it isn't always possible.      I am happy to use an intermediate ISO like 80,000 (pity I can not set that with auto ISO).

It seems to me from the various tests that some are saying the GH5s is the new king and others are saying it is very good for M43.    Seems to me physics says it will be more likely very good for M43 (and as good as any APSC and some FF).       It DOES look nice at 25600 in some tests but not sure I would say it is better than an A7s yet.

No question it will be better for video at up to ISO 6400 and in many ways up to 12800.      For stills at any ISO and video beyond that, well I look forward to the comparisons but remain to be convinced.

A7s (original) is still my choice for stills and (limited full HD) video.

The A7s was dethroned as low light king by a couple of medium format cameras recently.

I really look forward to both DXO and Photons to photos comparisons.

[Zak Forsman]

1 hour ago, Cliff Totten said:

This makes you wonder if Panasonic chose not to allow it to have 13.5 stops to protect the EVA-1's 14 stop advantage. If that did happen, than I dont blame Panasonic. The GH5-S already already outperforms the EVA-1 in noise and high ISO. (I dont think the EVA-1 uses a Sony sensor)

5

Saying it outperforms at high ISOs seems obvious on the surface, but it's not that simple. Keep in mind that the GH series has 4 available stops over middle gray. The EVA1 has 6 stops over middle gray. You could overexpose the EVA1 by two stops and still have the same amount of room in the highlights that the GH5S has. and it will look just as good or better when you bring it back down in post. Also The GH5S is likely employing NR at higher ISOs, the EVA1 isn't. Giving you more flexibility to remove it with greater precision in post.

Beyond that the EVA1 also gives you more dynamic range, more detailed resolution by oversampling from 5.7k, V-Gamut offers a much wider color gamut, no lag from the HDMI output, and no internal sharpening. The EVA1 definitely has its shortcomings, but there remains many advantages for it over the GH series.

[Emanuel]

38 minutes ago, mercer said:

I was pretty hard on the EVA1 but after seeing some recent videos, specifically Bloom’s review sample, I am pretty much blown away by the colors. If I had that kind of dough, I’d still choose the C200 (...)

Fanboyism is almost a miracle without grace ; ) Go Canon go! They say Panasonic "brings massive low light improvement" on dual native ISO. Before, the excuse were the skintones or the typical sensor size specs of a smaller format as 4/3". Now in times of SB and accurate VLog and other tricks, what else? ;-)

[Mmmbeats]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

So, are we really discussing lowlight and wide depth of field to try and argue that the GH5s is as good as FF... especially the a7s?

If you think the a7S is a better camera than the GH5 then you are using a very selective set of criteria.  They are both great systems, but the GH5 also has great picture quality, and wipes the floor with the Sony device in terms of usability, reliability, portability, and adaptability. 

[Emanuel]

10 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

If you think the a7S is a better camera than the GH5 then you are using a very selective set of criteria.  They are both great systems, but the GH5 also has great picture quality, and wipes the floor with the Sony device in terms of usability, reliability, portability, and adaptability. 

Don't sweat it! There will always be naysayers... ; ) Finding anything to try proving your grass is less greener.

@mercer Glenn, time to book your GH5 series driving test! Lucky boy, they only released two versions! ;-) 

[noone]

35 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

If you think the a7S is a better camera than the GH5 then you are using a very selective set of criteria.  They are both great systems, but the GH5 also has great picture quality, and wipes the floor with the Sony device in terms of usability, reliability, portability, and adaptability. 

Agreed they are both great but

Usability, no it is a bit subjective with things favouring each and depends on what use you have in mind.

Reliability.    Again, subjective.     I have never had any issue of reliability with my A7s in a couple of years use.

Portability?   Both are around the same size and both can be made big or small as systems. (original A7s is actually smaller).   

Adaptability, well any lens you can use on the GH5 CAN be adapted to the A7s but not the other way around (though M43 lenses can be pointless adapting to the Sony mostly).

For many people, I would think the GH5 would make more sense than an A7s and especially for video in daylight/controlled lighting but for others (me included), the A7s is a better camera so far. 

[ryne275]

i don't understand...ya'll want a cine cam...but if that's REALLY what you want there are better options out there...hell, you can find a used red one mx for about the same price...3k 60fps, 4k raw, 120 in 2k...

gh5s might have more bells & whistles but the red one is a cine cam and the other is a prosumer cam...plus the red won't give you that icky digital video look

 

[mercer]

48 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Fanboyism is almost a miracle without grace ; ) Go Canon go! They say Panasonic "brings massive low light improvement" on dual native ISO. Before, the excuse were the skintones or the typical sensor size specs of a smaller format as 4/3". Now in times of SB and accurate VLog and other tricks, what else? ;-)

Ha, sorry no fanboy here. I’ve tried almost every single brand of camera over the past 3-4 years... Hell I even had a Pentax.

And yeah, Speedboosters are cool but honestly, I am sooo tired of adapters. I have two boxes full of adapters in my closet, so anything over an 1/8” thick... I’m uninterested. So as far as native systems go, Canon lenses are the best, dollar for dollar, plus the plethora of third party lenses available in the EF Mount.

I was a little bummed not owning a camera for my Minolta lenses, but sure enough, I just found and bought my favorite lens of all time... the Minolta MC 35mm 1.8 that was converted to EF Mount. In a few months, I’ll add the 58mm 1.2 that is a breeze to convert with a Leitax adapter.

Lowlight is a marketing buzz word. I can get clean 1600 ISO on an f/2 lens with my 5D3 and acceptable 3200 with a 1.4... nothing a little Neat Video won’t clean up... I don’t really need any more than that and if I do, I’ll flip a switch.

Honestly, since this is primarily a hobby for me, I will mostly shoot Raw going forward and how can you beat 4K Raw up to 60p with DPAF? Btw, the C200 is pretty good in lowlight.

47 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

If you think the a7S is a better camera than the GH5 then you are using a very selective set of criteria.  They are both great systems, but the GH5 also has great picture quality, and wipes the floor with the Sony device in terms of usability, reliability, portability, and adaptability. 

Sorry, it should have read... Are we really discussing wide depth of field to argue that the GH5s is as good in lowlight as FF, especially the a7s?

[Emanuel]

@mercer Glenn again, your answers are always funny and invariably pretty paradoxical... Take a look:

"Lowlight is a marketing buzz word. I can get clean 1600 ISO on an f/2 lens with my 5D3 and acceptable 3200 with a 1.4... nothing a little Neat Video won’t clean up"

Very well. So, see your part II now:

"Sorry, it should have read... ...the GH5s is as good in lowlight as FF, especially the a7s."

Right. I forgot the 1st part of your own:

"And yeah, Speedboosters are cool but honestly, I am sooo tired of adapters. I have two boxes full of adapters in my closet"

So? There's no free soup without camera accessories, my friend, for any shooter, no matter what you're interested or not ;-) 

[mercer]

45 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Don't sweat it! There will always be naysayers... ; ) Finding anything to try proving your grass is less greener.

@mercer Glenn, time to book your GH5 series driving test! Lucky boy, they only released two versions! ;-) 

I never said the GH5s is a bad camera, I’ve said I think it was a mistake not to have IBIS and that maybe it should be priced lower than the GH5... with all features considered.

And unless I start doing some kind of paid videography, I will not be getting a GH5... really good camera... just not for me. And now that I think of it... even if I did do paid work, I’d probably go with a C100 Mark II because I’d find DPAF to be a far more important feature than 4K 60p or anamorphic for event work.

JMO

[Emanuel]

13 minutes ago, mercer said:

I never said the GH5s is a bad camera, I’ve said I think it was a mistake not to have IBIS and that maybe it should be priced lower than the GH5... with all features considered.

And unless I start doing some kind of paid videography, I will not be getting a GH5... really good camera... just not for me. And now that I think of it... even if I did do paid work, I’d probably go with a C100 Mark II because I’d find DPAF to be a far more important feature than 4K 60p or anamorphic for event work.

JMO

hehe you and your Canons... :D I agree with your 1st paragraph ; ) be careful with copyrights but once it is also your opinion you should be fine :-)

35 minutes ago, ryne275 said:

i don't understand...ya'll want a cine cam...but if that's REALLY what you want there are better options out there...hell, you can find a used red one mx for about the same price...3k 60fps, 4k raw, 120 in 2k...

gh5s might have more bells & whistles but the red one is a cine cam and the other is a prosumer cam...plus the red won't give you that icky digital video look

 

oh God, each post from yours, a pearl by its own... : ) I rest my case! :-) Save your energy to handhold your 8-year used RED ONE MX instead :-D

- RED ONEs #111 & #647   

[mercer]

6 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

@mercer Glenn again, your answers are always funny and invariably pretty paradoxical... Take a look:

"Lowlight is a marketing buzz word. I can get clean 1600 ISO on an f/2 lens with my 5D3 and acceptable 3200 with a 1.4... nothing a little Neat Video won’t clean up"

Very well. So, see your part II now:

"Sorry, it should have read... ...the GH5s is as good in lowlight as FF, especially the a7s."

Right. I forgot the 1st part of your own:

"And yeah, Speedboosters are cool but honestly, I am sooo tired of adapters. I have two boxes full of adapters in my closet"

So? There's no free soup without camera accessories, my friend, for any shooter, no matter what you're interested or not ;-) 

Okay, fair enough... I’m... sorry you feel that way? But to be more fair... I could argue that you use people’s proper names in an attempt at some sort of paradoxical condescension...

[Inazuma]

I personally think leaving out IBIS is fine (although very dumb from a marketing point of view). 

But since theyre making this camera video centric, I'm much more disappointed that they left out internal ND's.

[mercer]

It’s okay though... I added a winky face.

@Emanuel

2 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

I personally think leaving out IBIS is fine (although very dumb from a marketing point of view). 

But since theyre making this camera video centric, I'm much more disappointed that they left out internal ND's.

I agree, no IBIS should have equated to yes internal NDs. That would have been an acceptable trade off.