webrunner5 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, mercer said: I thought we were talking a7s, why bring an almost 10 year old camera into the discussion? Of course, sensor technology and processing will be better 10 years later. Listen, I think what Panasonic has done with the GH5s is amazing. It looks really good in lowlight but let’s not get hyperbolic here. What the a7s can do with a single candle is near miraculous. But how many movies have that need. I am talking about the A7s mkII. It is the newest thing out. It is even better than the A7s. If you have ever been on a movie set they are 50 Lights everywhere with 25 bounce boards. It is not a one man band. There is a reason the Credits at the end is nearly as long as the movie LoL. Only poor folk need ISO 25,000 in reality. Hell these new LCD flashlights are powerful as hell now. Buy a couple of them and bounce boards at Wal Mart. Hell in like Flint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, webrunner5 said: I find the Line in input very interesting also. Yeah TC for a Audio guy is sort of a Big thing LoL. AND TC works through the HDMI cable out also I heard on the Camera TV Store live thingy. Yeah but you very rarely want TC out vs how often you want TC in! TC out over HDMI doesn't even count as "having TC". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, IronFilm said: Yeah but you very rarely want TC out vs how often you want TC in! TC out over HDMI doesn't even count as "having TC". I would imagine it goes both ways. That is why there is so many wires in HDMI cables. Hell at some point you have to have something as a Master Clock. That has to be Out. Everything can't be only in. But i am sure you know more about TC than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, mercer said: I thought we were talking a7s, why bring an almost 10 year old camera into the discussion? Of course, sensor technology and processing will be better 10 years later. Listen, I think what Panasonic has done with the GH5s is amazing. It looks really good in lowlight but let’s not get hyperbolic here. What the a7s can do with a single candle is near miraculous. I brought it in because sometimes you need to take it step further with an analogy for a person to really get the hang of it. As you are subconsciously realizing, it is not about twice as much light hitting the sensor, but how that light is then USED! For instance with the "sensor technology and processing", as you said so yourself ;-) This is where the GH5S is doing very very well indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Looks like it is a good time to sell your Sony F3 IronFilm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: I would imagine it goes both ways. That is why there is so many wires in HDMI cables. No, you can not feed TC into a camera via HDMI. I am sure it technically could be done. But it has never happened, simple does not exist on any camera in the world. 10 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: If you have ever been on a movie set they are 50 Lights everywhere with 25 bounce boards. It is not a one man band. There is a reason the Credits at the end is nearly as long as the movie LoL. Is more than just bounce boards, also cutters/floppies/scrims/etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, IronFilm said: No, you can not feed TC into a camera via HDMI. I am sure it technically could be done. But it has never happened, simple does not exist on any camera in the world. Is more than just bounce boards, also cutters/floppies/scrims/etc Well a lot has never been done a M4/3 camera before this GH5s. Yeah I know about all the other toys, more sarcastic than reality. Mercer needs a laugh once in awhile. He is a serious guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, IronFilm said: I feel you are totally missing here when DoF is brought up. Which is as the DoP, you (together with the director) decide on a certain DoF you want to shoot a scene at. Do you for instance only want the tip of the actress' nose to be in focus or do you want her whole face to be sharp? Do you want the person she is sitting next (imagine you are shooting down the bar, not straight on) to to be totally blown out of focus and not clear (you might), or do you want her to be out focus but still kinda clear who the person is, or do you want them *both* to be sharply in focus? What you pick depends on the scene and story you're trying to tell, what is appropriate to match with it. Then whatever DoF you decide upon after that (be it a few inches, or a few feet) you then translate that to the right F stop (well... T stop, if you want to be consistent across lens changes) to shoot on your lens. And if you're using an a7Smk2 instead of a GH5S, that F stop is forced to be a lot higher! Which thus starts you off at a disadvantage in a low light scene vs a GH5S. Like @webrunner5 has already said, how often are you going to shoot in crazy lowlight for a scene without either bringing in lights, or using good available light? So for the sake of this discussion, deep DOF is kind of irrelevant... because if you were forced to shoot in very low light, you would shoot with the fastest lens you could find and step further back to get the focus. Honestly though, I didn’t want to get into this discussion, the GH5s is great with low light, but I don’t think it’s better than the a7s in low light... I’m sure there will be plenty of comparisons in the coming weeks to prove me wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Looks like it is a good time to sell your Sony F3 IronFilm! The Sony F3 is worth so little that there is no point selling it. And having a big "cinema camera" in the eyes of some people can have its benefits too, that a DSLR will never quite do :-/ Sad but true. Just now, mercer said: Like @webrunner5 has already said, how often are you going to shoot in crazy lowlight for a scene without either bringing in lights, or using good available light? I agree crazy high ISO is silly, but good clean 3200 or 6400? Fantastic. It means you can shoot faster with less lights: RobertoSF and mercer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Yeah I know about all the other toys, more sarcastic than reality. Mercer needs a laugh once in awhile. He is a serious guy. I’m really not, I’ve been laughing this entire discussion. People get angry and protective about their cameras. And it makes me laugh. Davey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, IronFilm said: The Sony F3 is worth so little that there is no point selling it. And having a big "cinema camera" in the eyes of some people can have its benefits too, that a DSLR will never quite do :-/ Sad but true. Yeah i found that out in the College small town I live in with the AF100 LoL. I was stampeded. Eh I think those days are changing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, mercer said: So for the sake of this discussion, deep DOF is kind of irrelevant... because if you were forced to shoot in very low light, you would shoot with the fastest lens you could find and step further back to get the focus. DoF does matter (note I am not saying "deep DoF", just saying "DoF"). Put yourself in the shoes of a DoP, and read again carefully what I wrote: You can not simply "shoot with the fastest lens you have", that might not be appropriate for the scene or the story you're telling. Neither can you simply step back for a wider shot, as again that shot tells something different, and it won't be what you had in mind for the story. Thus to match DoF with what you chose for the scene, then with the a7S you need higher ISO setting to maintain exposure, which puts the a7S on the back foot vs a GH5 (or even a S35 camera). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Gabriel Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Sorry I don't keep up on all of the camera specs. DPreview says the GH5s can do 10-bit 4:2:2 internal capture at up to 30p. Could the GH5 do that already, or is internal 10-bit 422 new? Thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 25 minutes ago, mercer said: I’m really not, I’ve been laughing this entire discussion. People get angry and protective about their cameras. And it makes me laugh. Yeah a lot of people have been talking out their ass along with me. It has been a interesting thread to put it mildly! But this a a Damn serious camera for the money. I am sure there a few things we don't even know all about it yet it has. It sure has changed my mind about m4/3 I can tell you that. This is cheap money for what it can do it looks like. And I am a big tripod shooter anyways, so the lack of IBIS is no big deal to me. And Gimbals are getting cheaper than hell as DJI has proved! Davey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, mercer said: I’m really not, I’ve been laughing this entire discussion. People get angry and protective about their cameras. And it makes me laugh. It is definitely a funny thread lol. The only cameras I'll seriously bash on are the ones I own. I don't usually let on until some idol worshiper has exhausted himself defending the indefensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Yeah i found that out in the Collage small town I live in with the AF100 LoL. I was stampeded. Eh I think those days are changing though. Not often, but sometimes during the year I will have people who prefer to shoot with me because I own the F3 than a teeny lowbudget DSLR Strange but true, I could even have a GH5S! But wouldn't be mattering. Ah well. Plus even myself personally, I do like shooting with it! XLR inputs and built in ND filters, plus all the quick easy access buttons and dials on it, really is a nice shooting experience which no DSLR/mirrorless quite has yet. When I shot a NYE party a few days ago I shot most of it with the F3. Only switching over the D5200 when the crowds on the dancefloor got so jam packed I had no space to move around with the big camera! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, Nathan Gabriel said: Sorry I don't keep up on all of the camera specs. DPreview says the GH5s can do 10-bit 4:2:2 internal capture at up to 30p. Could the GH5 do that already, or is internal 10-bit 422 new? Thanks for your help! Not at Full 4k. And the GH5s can even do 10 bit @60p in full 4k on HDMI out. And it has faster Slo Mo than the GH5. 240 versus 180. But there is a crop above 190 FPS. Nathan Gabriel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, Nathan Gabriel said: Sorry I don't keep up on all of the camera specs. DPreview says the GH5s can do 10-bit 4:2:2 internal capture at up to 30p. Could the GH5 do that already, or is internal 10-bit 422 new? Thanks for your help! Original GH5 was the first ever stills camera to do 10bit internal. GH4 was first with 10bit external. Nathan Gabriel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, IronFilm said: DoF does matter (note I am not saying "deep DoF", just saying "DoF"). Put yourself in the shoes of a DoP, and read again carefully what I wrote: You can not simply "shoot with the fastest lens you have", that might not be appropriate for the scene or the story you're telling. Neither can you simply step back for a wider shot, as again that shot tells something different, and it won't be what you had in mind for the story. Thus to match DoF with what you chose for the scene, then with the a7S you need higher ISO setting to maintain exposure, which puts the a7S on the back foot vs a GH5 (or even a S35 camera). Iron, may I call you Iron, it seems like you are creating unrealistic scenarios to defend your position. I read your DOF argument the first time and it’s just... unrealistic... if you’re shooting in extremely low light, you will do what you have to do to get the exposure... faster lens and then step back to get the focus you want. It wouldn’t be ideal but that is the circumstance you are in... otherwise you would bring in lights and then the a7s would still have a two stop advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, IronFilm said: Not often, but sometimes during the year I will have people who prefer to shoot with me because I own the F3 than a teeny lowbudget DSLR Strange but true, I could even have a GH5S! But wouldn't be mattering. Ah well. Plus even myself personally, I do like shooting with it! XLR inputs and built in ND filters, plus all the quick easy access buttons and dials on it, really is a nice shooting experience which no DSLR/mirrorless quite has yet. When I shot a NYE party a few days ago I shot most of it with the F3. Only switching over the D5200 when the crowds on the dancefloor got so jam packed I had no space to move around with the big camera! Yeah a Sony F3 is a Wide ass camera. I think it has a beautiful shape to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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