Panasonic GH5S 4K / 240fps low light monster

[Stab]

So, have there been any reviewers of the GH5s been able to compare the dynamic range and noise performance of the S version compared to the regular GH5 at LOW ISO's?

Being able to go higher in ISO can be handy sometimes, but I mainly shoot between ISO 100 and 800 anyway so I am interested to hear if there has been any improvement IQ wise in those ranges. Is there fewer noise because of the larger pixels? A bit more DR? Or are they virtually the same there?

[DBounce]

So according to Mark from Panasonic the GH5s does not use a Sony sensor as many had thought. 

[Emanuel]

2 hours ago, DBounce said:

So according to Mark from Panasonic the GH5s does not use a Sony sensor as many had thought. 

And many usual detractors have fueled their shameful defamatory campaign...

Seems 4K60p (via HDMI or not) 10-bit 4:2:2 high(er) bitrate GH5 series have hurt not only a few ; ) 

4 hours ago, Stab said:

So, have there been any reviewers of the GH5s been able to compare the dynamic range and noise performance of the S version compared to the regular GH5 at LOW ISO's?

Being able to go higher in ISO can be handy sometimes, but I mainly shoot between ISO 100 and 800 anyway so I am interested to hear if there has been any improvement IQ wise in those ranges. Is there fewer noise because of the larger pixels? A bit more DR? Or are they virtually the same there?

ISO2500 won't hurt this time ;-)

15 hours ago, Axel said:

Wonderful. 

How I rue to have sold this camera!

It sometimes showed the limits of it's resolution, but that's the extend of it. Thanks, froess!

No worries mate, I guess you'll risk to (pre)order a higher resolution version in a couple of months to come... LOL :-)

[Axel]

8 hours ago, Emanuel said:

I wrote:

"Wonderful. 

How I rue to have sold this camera!

It sometimes showed the limits of it's resolution, but that's the extend of it. Thanks, froess!"

No worries mate, I guess you'll risk to (pre)order a higher resolution version in a couple of months to come... LOL :-)

The reasoning behind this:

The GH5S has a bigger sensor compared to GH5 (17,3 mm x 13 mm), but not as big as that of my A6500 (23.5 mm x 15.6 mm). Lowlight performance with my camera is still better. But I don't care at all about lowlight.

Dynamic range is also slightly better, 13 stops (Sony) over 12 stops (Pana). 

The Pocket (as well as the Micro, which has the advantage of 50/60p @ 1080) has 13 stops. 

People now have introduced the term usable dynamic range in connection with the cleaner shadows of the GH5S. But there is another side to this: gradation of the highlights. You'd usually ETTR and bring the highlights down to IRE 100 in post. Dave Dugdale has made a video in which he proves 8-bit to be much less problematic compared to 10-bit than is commonly believed. But this is for rec_709, where you squeeze 13 stops into 6 stops: ultra low dynamic range.

The Pocket, with it's tiny sensor, is by no means a lowlight performer. Shadows will be very noisy (you see it in froess' fairground clip, but also in the shadows in the forest clip). The noise does look a lot like film grain, but of course you would want to avoid it nonetheless. You can do so by setting zebra to 100% and adjust exposure so that the highlights just start to clip. This camera really is (contrary to it's reputation) the easiest of them all in this regard. Of course: there has to be enough light and/or you have to use fast lenses and additionally speedboost them.

But. Then. The colors are beautiful to start with, and with 10 or 12 bit, they stay beautiful in post. 

Now finally we here the bell ringing for SDR. I bet if you saw a highkey image with sun and sky in HDR, shot with Pocket, you said wow! Shot with Slog in 8-bit? Probably eew ...

I wonder if the GH5S could be the right compromise. Good enough images, good resolution, low noise in the shadows, enough bit depth for good highlights. That's paramount. Missing AF, IBIS and high ISOs don't need to show in the final image.

 

[IronFilm]

20 minutes ago, Axel said:

The Pocket, with it's tiny sensor, is by no means a lowlight performer.

Still heaps better than a S35 RED MX! ha

[Kisaha]

Does anyone see this camera cutting sales from the EVA? I do!

Panasonic going all in with 4 cameras in less than a year.

[noone]

On ‎1‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 11:12 AM, DBounce said:

So according to Mark from Panasonic the GH5s does not use a Sony sensor as many had thought. 

Where does he say that it ISN'T a Sony sensor?

 

Everything I have seen from Panasonic about it is a bit vague leaving me to believe it IS a Sony made sensor but with Panasonic input.

 

EDIT Never mind, I see it is from the B&H video.      Nothing there tells me I am wrong and it isn't a Sony made sensor (based on a Sony sensor) tweaked to Panasonic's requirements.

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, noone said:

Where does he say that it ISN'T a Sony sensor?

 

Everything I have seen from Panasonic about it is a bit vague leaving me to believe it IS a Sony made sensor but with Panasonic input.

 

EDIT Never mind, I see it is from the B&H video.      Nothing there tells me I am wrong and it isn't a Sony made sensor (based on a Sony sensor) tweaked to Panasonic's requirements.

 

[webrunner5]

3 hours ago, noone said:

Where does he say that it ISN'T a Sony sensor?

 

Everything I have seen from Panasonic about it is a bit vague leaving me to believe it IS a Sony made sensor but with Panasonic input.

 

EDIT Never mind, I see it is from the B&H video.      Nothing there tells me I am wrong and it isn't a Sony made sensor (based on a Sony sensor) tweaked to Panasonic's requirements.

I agree. There is no way in hell Panasonic comes up with a sensor that is that drastic of a change from the GH5 in that short of time on their own, no way.

[IronFilm]

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

from the GH5 in that short of time on their own

Errr... it wasn't like they finished the GH5 and *THEN* started on the GH5S, rather it was started waaaaaaaaaaaaaay before

[jonpais]

just playing devil’s advocate, @webrunner5 ?, but just because the two cameras were released a year apart, who’s to say how long they’ve been developing the sensor? Panasonic holds patents on lots of sensors with even far more advanced tech afaik.

[webrunner5]

Panasonic and Olympus co developed the GH5, EM1 mk II sensor. I doubt Panasonic had the steppers, stitchers to make the GH5s sensor. It is just too one off for them to plow that much R&D cost and production money into producing it.

[IronFilm]

20 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

It is just too one off for them to plow that much R&D cost and production money into producing it.

Who is to say it is a one off? 

The "DVX300" might have it, who knows if another stills camera might use it (such as the GH6S? Not unusual to reuse a sensor across generations), or maybe a MFT camcorder below the EVA1 but above the GH5S. 

Lots of way they might be able to use the sensor again!

[webrunner5]

15 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Who is to say it is a one off? 

The "DVX300" might have it, who knows if another stills camera might use it (such as the GH6S? Not unusual to reuse a sensor across generations), or maybe a MFT camcorder below the EVA1 but above the GH5S. 

Lots of way they might be able to use the sensor again!

Panasonic knew, and knows they were not going to sell many of these cameras. You might be right but it seems crazy to me to believe it is Not a Sony built sensor , with Panasonic input.

But Panasonic did build the GH1, GH2 sensors. With those and the Gh5s all being multi-aspect type it does not sound like a Sony thing to be honest. I guess someone will rip one apart and we will find out down the road.

[ntblowz]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Who is to say it is a one off? 

The "DVX300" might have it, who knows if another stills camera might use it (such as the GH6S? Not unusual to reuse a sensor across generations), or maybe a MFT camcorder below the EVA1 but above the GH5S. 

Lots of way they might be able to use the sensor again!

AF200! its long overdue!

[noone]

21 hours ago, Emanuel said:

 

Still nothing to say it is NOT a Sony sensor.

Until I see a Panasonic executive swear under oath the sensor in the GH5s did not come out of a Sony factory, I will accept it is a Sony sensor.

It doesn't matter who makes it though as long as it works in the camera it is in as intended (and that it seems to do).

All the makers are pretty incestuous anyway (EG Sony and Nikon are still the two biggest shareholders in Olympus I think?)

I would love to have a GH5s and maybe I will at some point and that would apply even if the sensor was made by Kraft or Lego or whoever.

[IronFilm]

On 2/2/2018 at 9:13 PM, ntblowz said:

AF200! its long overdue!

Agreed, neither the EVA1 or a DVX200 is an "AF200" :-( 

[Stab]

Hi guys,

I just bought a GH5s and I am planning to use the C4k mode a lot for weddings. But i have a question about it.

Since most monitors and televisions are 16:9, or either 1920x1080 or 3840x2160, I think that it is best if the films I make for people are exported in 3840x2160. That way I am sure that their telivision isn't doing any weird scaling.

I usually add black bars in post to crop to 1:2.35, but I deliver in 3840x2160 with the crop bars hardcoded in the export. This is what I am doing for a long time now, but now that I have C4k or 4096x2160 to my disposal, what would be the best workflow in Premiere?

I was thinking that I should leave my sequence settings at 3840x2160 and when I add the C4k files just let Premiere 'scale frame size' them to 3840x2160. In other words, the C4k files are 'zoomed out' by 93.75%. Then just add the crop bars like I normally would and export as 2160p.

Does that sound good to you guys? Another reason why I am thinking of doing it this way is because I use multiple camera's and not all of them have a C4k mode. So mixing them on the timeline becomes easier and nothing is upscaled.

Any disadvantages for this method? Or do you know a better way of working and delivering with these formats?

Thanks!

 

[Parker]

@Stab my personally preferred method of working with cinema 4k files is on a 1920x817 timeline for 2.35:1, that way I can take advantage of the extra width and downscale the footage by a little bit extra, 48% instead of the 50% downscale of regular UHD. Its not a huge difference of course, but does give me just a little extra room for recomposition when necessary. 

[DBounce]

8 hours ago, jonpais said:

I’m ecstatic about the GH5s because soon the market will be flooded with cheap used GH5 cameras. ?

Don’t know that I would count on this. I have no plans of selling my GH5, even though I have the GH5S arriving this week. 

I see them as different animals. My GH5S will mostly live caged, while my GH5 will roam free as I travel. The reason is simple, the GH5S is not a stills camera, whereas the regular GH5 is.