Panasonic GH5S 4K / 240fps low light monster

[Emanuel]

The most funny is the fact they both share Sony sensors technology if so... : D Any confirmation on it BTW??

 

Anyways, no one else gets such wider release as much as Panasonic is able to extract the best from their sensors with ultimate bit rate quality and proper codecs to match:

 

[PannySVHS]

1 hour ago, horshack said:

No doubt the A7s's codec is inferior but I was only speaking to sensor performance - the codec can be worked around via external recording. Is the GH5 vs GH5s screenshot you posted a static locked-down shot? If so then the difference can explained via 3D (temporal) noise reduction.

Panasonic can't replace the laws of physics. The A7s sensor has a Quantum Efficiency of 65% and a sub 1e- read noise - that's pretty much near the theoretical limit of current bayer sensor design. If the GH5s matched that then it would still be 2EV below the A7s in noise performance based on the difference of sensor area.

Obviously it is massively worse than the GH5s codec. A7s giving us worse performance at the setting with 12800ISO, of which I gave an example above. Half of the persons pants are one complete dark area on the Sony camera!

The other shot with the two Lumix cams has a spinning wheel at the right, so it has a moving object in there.

Inazuma, on a screen bigger than 19inches blocking of the Sony camera  is massively obvious. You can call it a draw between the two cams, which is an awesome performance for both of the cameras.These blocks on the A7s are like 8bit NES, whereas Panasonic blotches are still video. It would be considered better performance on a big screen for the GH5s. At ultra ultra lowlight of course, it is not performing to the same sensitivity as the A7s cameras.

[kidzrevil]

This is going to be an amazing camera for people that shoot with rigs and gimbals etc.

its gonna suck for people like me who shoot handheld ?

[jonpais]

I wouldn’t even shoot on a gimbal without IBIS. Pretty massive difference. 

[noone]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

You're missing my point completely I fear. 

For the a7S to match DoF with the GH5S then the a7S much have a much higher F-stop, which thus puts it at an immediate lowlight disadvantage which it has to first overcome. 

Thus it is not just a case of the GH5S being great at a given ISO, but practically speaking you'll find it works even better than the ISO suggests in a lowlight scene as you won't need to close the f-stop as far. 

I doubt Panasonic is doing that. Quite likely there are serious overheating issues they need to avoid with the GH5S. 

Unless... they made the GH5S without IBIS purely to pander to the car rig shooters?? I doubt it that they'd kill IBIS just for them!!

I would like to explore that further as I keep seeing it but again, from my experience in use it doesn't apply often and sometimes I think the reverse can apply (given existing lenses).

DOF depends on a few things including subject distance and the shorter the lens, the greater the DOF.

That makes me think that at 24mm and wider (FF), there will be few situations that will apply as DOF gets infinite quickly and at 17mm f4 for instance with a subject at just 8 feet, everything from about 4ft to infinity will be in focus at 2.8, the subject distance needs to be 12 ft to have everything from around 6ft to infinity in focus (I use f4 as my 17mm lens is a f4 tilt shift).

Another thing is that it seems this is (mostly) applied regarding people and how much of a person is in focus.     In that regards, I find that at around 150mm FF and up, I actually prefer using larger sensors for people with the sort of lenses usually used.     IE a 300 2.8 lens FF at the sort distances to shoot people at and the whole person will be in focus at 2.8

I guess that if you can have a 150mm 1.4 lens for M43 you would EQUAL it but there isn't such a beast.     The 4/3 150 f2 adapted or a speed boosted 200 f2 would be nice and would do it possibly but that is getting to an extreme in use (I like using my 150 2.8 on M43 AS a 300mm equivalent lens but my older MF 300 2.8 on my A7s is the real thing even if the Sigma 150 2.8 is a better lens optically).

Between 24 and 150mm FF, there may well be more cases favouring M43 but even then, it doesn't seem to apply so much for me (so far anyway).

I guess I am more looking at it the other way.       What/how could I match the DOF of my FF gear for MY uses with m43?    Or what situations have I been DOF limited with FF due to too shallow DOF?    When I do that, there is no comparison really.

Often enough too, I can be at the SAME ISO with both systems but use a different shutter speed instead (as long as I have a high enough shutter speed).

I guess to me it means, in limited situations EG up to about 24mm with a short subject distance, 24mm to 150mm maybe more situations but close in still and subject dependent and above 150mm maybe at very short subject distances and/or if you have a really exotic lens and all if you can not just use a different shutter speed, then there may well be advantages.

 

 

Regards IBIS, I think this new camera doesn't NEED IBIS as much as previousM43 cameras, I love having it but it isn't something as necessary as with the cameras that I have had it in before (a couple of Pentax DSLRs and Olympus and Panasonic m43 and a Pentax Q).      I don't miss it much with the first gen A7s (would be better to have though).

The GH5s might be the best camera yet to use stabilized (and non stabilized) Canon lenses though.      With a smart adapter (focal reducer or non focal reducer) like Metabones or Kipon it might be as good as it gets up to ISO 6400.

Again, I don't get why people want to compare this against an A7sii for high ISO.       That they are tells me just how good this thing will be when used as a regular camera against normal cameras with APSC or even FF.

[Emanuel]

32 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I wouldn’t even shoot on a gimbal without IBIS. Pretty massive difference. 

Yes, it is a pity but it is what it is... Seems we can't have everything in the same package. Native dual ISO oblige. Nothing we can't do about it.

[RobertoSF]

4 hours ago, AaronChicago said:

This was a feature on the GH5 as well. What would be cool is if it could preview and desqueeze the actual file.

Yep, it appears the GH5 anamorphic features were kept for the GH5s, with the notable exception of shooting 6K anamorphic. Understandable, given the big difference in MP.

What attracts me is that the GH5s footage looks better in general from what I've seen so far, and it apparently goes around 3 stops further in low light. As you probably know, anamorphic lenses aren't very fast, at least mine aren't, so this is a big difference.

Not sure I would rest easy with a camera desqueezing the original files... better to batch process those with computer horsepower at the end of the day, while I sleep. ;-)

[jonpais]

I think it all boils down to this - the GH5s boasts cleaner low light performance and time code, but no IBIS, and 25% dearer. In no way does the GH5s make the GH5 even remotely redundant. If I need to shoot in low light (and I do all the time!), I use something called lighting. V-Log L incl. at last (!), however it arrived a little too late, as many are now migrating over to HLG as the photo style of choice.

So, what would it take for me to upgrade from a camera that I’m already infatuated with? Internal NDs. 4K 10-bit 60p internal. PDAF. No more, no less.

[webrunner5]

6 hours ago, EthanAlexander said:

This isn't true. You aren't accounting for the light advantage already at play with larger sensors. So, when you stop down two stops to get the same DoF, you're ok because FF has a two stop sensitivity advantage over M34.

I don't think that is true anymore with this new Panny sensor. There is a video I watched and I thought like you until I re saw it a few times. I think IronFIlm is right.

[mercer]

Is it known around the GH5 world that HLG is better than V-Log? From what I’ve seen, as a whole, V-Log looks better... but I’ve always liked CineLikeD... so what do I know. Also what ever happened with that Like709 profile that was all the rage when the GH5 came out? I don’t hear anybody talking about that anymore. 

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

I don't think that is true anymore with this new Panny sensor. There is a video I watched and I thought like you until I re saw it a few times. I think IronFIlm is right.

Well no matter how you look at it, FF has a 2 stop advantage. It blows my mind the shallow depth of field I can get with an f/4 lens. 

[webrunner5]

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

Is it known around the GH5 world that HLG is better than V-Log? From what I’ve seen, as a whole, V-Log looks better... but I’ve always liked CineLikeD... so what do I know. Also what ever happened with that Like709 profile that was all the rage when the GH5 came out? I don’t hear anybody talking about that anymore. 

Well no matter how you look at it, FF has a 2 stop advantage. It blows my mind the shallow depth of field I can get with an f/4 lens. 

It is not True with the new sensor anymore. You people need to look at some of these videos out there with a open mind. This new GH5s is a game changer. This new Sony sensor is the future. This camera makes the GH5 look like a camera that came out 3 years ago video wise. Vlog on the GH5s is pretty unbelievable, Way better than the GH5.

[Emanuel]

8 minutes ago, mercer said:

Well no matter how you look at it, FF has a 2 stop advantage. It blows my mind the shallow depth of field I can get with an f/4 lens. 

Nothing fast glass coupled to any SpeedBooster won't reasonably solve... ;-)

[mercer]

Idk @webrunner5 Panasonic is charging $500 more for less features... just kidding. I just watched that Slovenia video... the footage looks pretty good. 

[noone]

The difference isn't a full 2x with this camera but is something like 1.86.

The tech advance does make up for some of the natural difference due to size but I wouldn't say it makes up for close to all of it.

No question this is a game changer.

Regards using fast glass (with speed booster included), you can use fast glass on the larger sensor too of course.

 

[kidzrevil]

On the bright side I can see people selling their gh5 bodies cause of this announcement and that equals a cheap gh5 for me ! Mu u ah ha ha !!

seriously though for the guys with stabilized lenses you are lucky. So freakin lucky

[webrunner5]

Well this is not going to put Canon and Sony out of business, but this camera makes m4/3 nearly as good as FF and in some areas maybe even better. That alone is huge. A small camera with small lenses that cost less than the big boys on the same playing field. That is revolutionary in a sense. The GH5 didn't make that kind of impact, but I think this GH5s will.

[Emanuel]

3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well this is not going to put Canon and Sony out of business, but this camera makes m4/3 nearly as good as FF and in some areas maybe even better. That alone is huge. A small camera with small lenses that cost less than the big boys on the same playing field. That is revolutionary in a sense. The GH5 didn't make that kind of impact, but I think this GH5s will.

Both are a 10-bit milestone, Don... :-)

[mercer]

Idk, with this new tech, I think Panasonic should start producing some micro 4/3 mount lenses that cover S35mm sensors. They’re really starting to push the price boundary for a micro 4/3 sensor camera, IMO.

[EthanAlexander]

14 minutes ago, noone said:

The difference isn't a full 2x with this camera but is something like 1.86.

The tech advance does make up for some of the natural difference due to size but I wouldn't say it makes up for close to all of it.

No question this is a game changer.

Regards using fast glass (with speed booster included), you can use fast glass on the larger sensor too of course.

 

11 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

On the bright side I can see people selling their gh5 bodies cause of this announcement and that equals a cheap gh5 for me ! Mu u ah ha ha !!

seriously though for the guys with stabilized lenses you are lucky. So freakin lucky

9 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well this is not going to put Canon and Sony out of business, but this camera makes m4/3 nearly as good as FF and in some areas maybe even better. That alone is huge. A small camera with small lenses that cost less than the big boys on the same playing field. That is revolutionary in a sense. The GH5 didn't make that kind of impact, but I think this GH5s will.

 

I ran out of likes so everyone please accept this IOU 

[webrunner5]

32 minutes ago, EthanAlexander said:

 

I ran out of likes so everyone please accept this IOU 

Well we will all have to do a lot more research to figure this thing out but this thing for the money I think is even better the the EVA1 may be. This thing is going to be scary good for video. In Vlog and dual native ISO's I think it is really better than the EVA1. And it is better in low light.

Panasonic just gave us a bargain of the year camera for not much money. Now no doubt the Sony A7s mkIII is on the horizon so we will see, but they had better make some Really big changes or they are going to loose a lot of sales, because you know it will be a lot more expensive than 2500 bucks, and the cost of Sony FF glass, well that alone leaves me out of the picture..

I had NO desire to buy a GH5. I will admit I, if I can, will buy a GH5s. I think it is that good. The GH5s is a No Excuses camera, other than the loss of the IBIS and if you read why they got rid of it you will understand why they did it. Jittering on Tripods and car mounts etc. Apparently even when it is off it is not locked. DR's said it was the thing they hated most about the GH5. So they listened to the Pros and made us a better cam. Maybe not all around, but better for serious video.

And they said it might make the thing overheat being closer to the body with Variable aspect sensor, and they didn't want to make the body any different I read also so every add on for the GH5 fit this new one..

Plus this GH5s is at least 2 maybe 3 stops better in low light, and has 14 stops of DR. Holly Crap. And to me it's output in Vlog is Way more Cinematic looking than the GH5.