Matching Sony and Canon EOSHD

[the_brotographer]

I'm shooting these days with the Sony A7R III and Canon 1DX Mark II, both of which have EOSHD profiles installed.

On the Sony I'm typically shooting with EOSHD Pro Color (Original). With the 1DX Mark II I'm mostly shooting in EOSHD C-LOG, but sometimes in Cinema 2 or 3.

I'm having a pretty tough time even coming close to matching the footage in post. Even when shooting c-log on the Canon.

Should I be shooting C-LOG on the Canon and Pro LOG S on the Sony to match them up best? Some other combination?

Any help from you guys and gals would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[maxotics]

First, LOG gammas reduce color fidelity.  They stretch out brightness DR at the expense of mid-tone color.  It should be easier to match LOG on both cameras, but only if you go for that low-saturation "Handmaid's Tale" look.  Your problem is exactly what I warn about on this forum.  You can't match colors that are no longer there.

First, put both cameras on a neutral, standard or portrait profile, make sure you have both white balances to the same number, might be 5000K, whatever. then shoot some test clips and compare them.  YOU MUST FIRST get an idea of their natural differences.  Then, in your editor you can try something like this (someone's else's approach) on the Sony: Orange -17 (make orange hues more red) Yellow -30  (de-emphasize yellow hues) Green +10.  My guess is that in their native profiles you will get the cameras fairly close.  

After that, in shooting, you can try on the Sony: Creative style setting "vivid", sharpness +1, saturation -1, contrast 0, during picture taking will also produce more realistic 'Canon like' colors.

[the_brotographer]

4 hours ago, maxotics said:

First, LOG gammas reduce color fidelity.  They stretch out brightness DR at the expense of mid-tone color.  It should be easier to match LOG on both cameras, but only if you go for that low-saturation "Handmaid's Tale" look.  Your problem is exactly what I warn about on this forum.  You can't match colors that are no longer there.

First, put both cameras on a neutral, standard or portrait profile, make sure you have both white balances to the same number, might be 5000K, whatever. then shoot some test clips and compare them.  YOU MUST FIRST get an idea of their natural differences.  Then, in your editor you can try something like this (someone's else's approach) on the Sony: Orange -17 (make orange hues more red) Yellow -30  (de-emphasize yellow hues) Green +10.  My guess is that in their native profiles you will get the cameras fairly close.  

After that, in shooting, you can try on the Sony: Creative style setting "vivid", sharpness +1, saturation -1, contrast 0, during picture taking will also produce more realistic 'Canon like' colors.

Thank you very much for taking the time for such an in depth response. I'm going to test this out and see if it'll work for me.

[maxotics]

16 minutes ago, the_brotographer said:

see if it'll work for me

Let us know what you find!

 

[the_brotographer]

Ok, so I was finally able to take an hour and do a little testing. After some frustration, I think I was able to get it fairly close to matching color. Here is what I did.

Sony Pro Log (Regular)

• changed gamma to Cine 3 (more contrasty it seems)
• changed saturation to +30
• Color Depth (R: +4, G: -6, B: -7, C: 0, M: -4, Y: -2)

Canon 1DX Mark II

• Used EOSHD CINEMA 3
• See attached image for those changes

It seems to match decently well. None of the people watching will notice in my estimation. They'd also never be looking for it. However, for now I think it'll do, and I'll update you with any changes!

[EthanAlexander]

Another option is purchasing a color checker chart, shooting them both under the same light, and using DaVinci Resolve's color match feature. It's incredibly accurate, and you can export the change as a LUT to use in Final Cut or Premiere. Shooting like you are now is a good start and this will get you the rest of the way. If you're always shooting in the gym like that then you pretty much only have to do this once. Let me know if you have more questions.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/465286-REG/X_Rite_MSCCC_Original_ColorChecker_Card.html

[the_brotographer]

11 minutes ago, EthanAlexander said:

Another option is purchasing a color checker chart, shooting them both under the same light, and using DaVinci Resolve's color match feature. It's incredibly accurate, and you can export the change as a LUT to use in Final Cut or Premiere. Shooting like you are now is a good start and this will get you the rest of the way. If you're always shooting in the gym like that then you pretty much only have to do this once. Let me know if you have more questions.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/465286-REG/X_Rite_MSCCC_Original_ColorChecker_Card.html

That's a really good idea. My wife and I just bought the gym, so I'm trying to step up the marketing videos. So I'll be shooting in there quite often. I'm going to look into the Color Checker. Would you suggest shooting in LOG on both cameras when matching via the color checker?

[webrunner5]

I just sort of started a thread about it.

 

[EthanAlexander]

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I just sort of started a thread about it.

 

Why?? I'm not about downvotes, but this is something that I'd use one on. Just clutters the forum, especially since all you did was post a link that nobody else was asking for.

11 minutes ago, the_brotographer said:

That's a really good idea. My wife and I just bought the gym, so I'm trying to step up the marketing videos. So I'll be shooting in there quite often. I'm going to look into the Color Checker. Would you suggest shooting in LOG on both cameras when matching via the color checker?

I certainly wouldn't shoot with crushed blacks and blown out highlights, but it's up to you if you want to shoot log.  In this case, I'd probably just shoot like you are and let Resolve match it. If that doesn't work well, move contrast all the way to the left on the Canon and on the Sony go to Cine 1, make saturation 0, and black level PLUS 15. In both cases match the Sony to the Canon, not other way around.

[the_brotographer]

1 minute ago, EthanAlexander said:

I certainly wouldn't shoot with crushed blacks and blown out highlights, but it's up to you if you want to shoot log.  In this case, I'd probably just shoot like you are and let Resolve match it. If that doesn't work well, move contrast all the way to the left on the Canon and on the Sony go to Cine 1, make saturation 0, and black level PLUS 15. In both cases match the Sony to the Canon, not other way around.

Yeah I'm definitely attempting to match the Sony to the Canon. So just to be clear, match the Sony to the Canon in Resolve with the x-rite passport? Is it worth trying to get it as close as possible on the Sony, then letting resolve to the trick, or does it matter if I'm using Resolve to match the color chart? Thanks for your help btw.

[webrunner5]

8 minutes ago, EthanAlexander said:

Why?? I'm not about downvotes, but this is something that I'd use one on. Just clutters the forum, especially since all you did was post a link that nobody else was asking for.

I certainly wouldn't shoot with crushed blacks and blown out highlights, but it's up to you if you want to shoot log.  In this case, I'd probably just shoot like you are and let Resolve match it. If that doesn't work well, move contrast all the way to the left on the Canon and on the Sony go to Cine 1, make saturation 0, and black level PLUS 15. In both cases match the Sony to the Canon, not other way around.

And your total advice was to buy a Color Checker and that's it. Some advice. Ray Charles could have seen that.

Why should I ramble on about something that is already written better than I guess the 2 of us is going to say.

[the_brotographer]

4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

And your total advice was to buy a Color Checker and that's it. Some advice. Ray Charles could have seen that.

Why should I ramble on about something that is already written better than I guess the 2 of us is going to say.

There are lots of other questions that I could have. No reason to get angry over this. Like shooting in LOG vs non LOG then matching them.

[EthanAlexander]

7 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

And your total advice was to buy a Color Checker and that's it. Some advice. Ray Charles could have seen that.

Why should I ramble on about something that is already written better than I guess the 2 of us is going to say.

Go outside and get some fresh air. I was being respectful and you went straight to this? Classy.

12 minutes ago, the_brotographer said:

Yeah I'm definitely attempting to match the Sony to the Canon. So just to be clear, match the Sony to the Canon in Resolve with the x-rite passport? Is it worth trying to get it as close as possible on the Sony, then letting resolve to the trick, or does it matter if I'm using Resolve to match the color chart?

I'd start with as close as possible and then modify from there if you don't get the result you want. It took me several tries to learn how to quickly match in Resolve.

13 minutes ago, the_brotographer said:

Thanks for your help btw.

I do it for the likes *Hint hint.*

[the_brotographer]

1 minute ago, EthanAlexander said:

I'd start with as close as possible and then modify from there if you don't get the result you want. It took me several tries to learn how to quickly match in Resolve.

Sweet, I'll try that. I'm all about learning to do things the right way.

[Andrew Reid]

On 18/01/2018 at 4:36 PM, the_brotographer said:

Ok, so I was finally able to take an hour and do a little testing. After some frustration, I think I was able to get it fairly close to matching color. Here is what I did.

If you're showing what you did on the forum, you're literally giving away the Pro Color settings for free.

Can you not do that.

If you're modifying it for your own use then fine.

If you're modifying it and sharing the settings out, I'd prefer you asked me first to see if it was ok?

[the_brotographer]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

If you're showing what you did on the forum, you're literally giving away the Pro Color settings for free.

Can you not do that.

If you're modifying it for your own use then fine.

If you're modifying it and sharing the settings out, I'd prefer you asked me first to see if it was ok?

Hey Andrew, I apologize, as I didn't think about that. Feel free to delete anything that needs to be deleted. It won't happen again. I figured that they were different enough, but definitely don't want to get close to giving them away for free!