Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 13, 2018 Administrators Share Posted January 13, 2018 So I can update EOSHD Pro Color for Sony's latest colour science tweaks yours truly bought the new A7R III from Berlin's one and only Sony Store this week. Yes, 3500 euros seems to be Sony's new standard price and yes I am finally broke... but the improvements over the old model turn out to be quite special - especially the new Hybrid LOG Gamma picture profiles. Read the full article Grumble, noone, maxotics and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesku Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 How well works 8bit HDR HLG profile with only 216 gradient steps? Does it work with HDR TV? Does it have banding issues? If it works well GH5 should have 8bit HLG 4k 60P. GH5 already works with 8bit HLG 4k 30P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domi Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Hey Andrew. Just purchased the Procolor/pro log packet Sunday to use with my a7riii. Do I have to repurchase once you update? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 @Andrew Reidexcellent review thanks. Great to see the AF is that good and those HLG colors are an excellent surprise. I think the combo of A7RIII and A7SIII is going to be the best combo ever. You know I am like you, hybrid photo video and always wanted one camera body for that. But I realized it is not gonna happen soon. You have to make compromise somewhere. Also I realized that only 1 camera on the field is not the most convenient: Sometimes I am setting up the stills camera for a 1 hour timelapse, nice to be able to shoot video during this time with the other camera, and so on. A7RIII + A7SIII is going to allow me to share lenses / batteries /..., have one of the best still quality for landscape ever, small bodies and lighter than GH5 yet Full frame with IBIS, great video AF, great video features and a S35 mode if reach is needed. Hard to beat that... Just have to see Canikon mirrorless offering in FF this year but I am pretty sure it wont be as well specced, and it's gonna need 2 years to have decent lens system. After selling the A7RII because of ergonomics nightmare and no pleasure to shoot with, and not buying A7SII because of those same reasons and no good video AF, I think I am sold again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, wolf33d said: I think the combo of A7RIII and A7SIII is going to be the best combo ever. At 8-bit for video, yes. jonpais and maxotics 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Emanuel said: At 8-bit for video, yes. A7SIII should be 10bit. Anyway, 10 bit is nice but not more important for me than things like good video AF or IBIS. I have found 8 bit easily gradable and people have posted master piece 8 bit cinematic videos where you would not tell the difference with 10bit. It does not really change how people see your content. IBIS and AF does. A shaky video is trash, focus hunting is trash. @Andrew Reid I found the HLG different profile significations: HLG: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Equivalent to the HDR standard Hybrid Log-Gamma, ITU-R BT.2100. HLG1: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Emphasizes noise reduction. However, shooting is restricted to a narrower dynamic range than with [HLG2] or [HLG3]. HLG2: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Provides a balance of dynamic range and noise reduction. HLG3: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Wider dynamic range than [HLG2]. However, noise may increase. [HLG1], [HLG2], and [HLG3] all apply a gamma curve with the same characteristics, but each offers a different balance between dynamic range and noise reduction. Each has a different maximum video output level, as follows: [HLG1]: approx. 87%, [HLG2]: approx. 95%, [HLG3]: approx. 100%. AS seen here http://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1710/v1/en/contents/TP0001211745.html @Andrew Reid which one did you like? Geoff CB, salim and Andrew Reid 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 21 minutes ago, wolf33d said: No. A7SIII should be 10bit. Really? Who says so? Rumors spread on web? In any case, a combo should somehow mean a sort of match no? I'd rather tend to call a welcome update to the latest one instead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchtape Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 @wolf33d generally speaking the Sony FF system is way heavier than mft because the lenses are crazy heavy. Panasonic 35-100mm is half the weight of sony 70-200. You can put gh5+35-100mm on single handed gimbal. Try doing that with the a7+70-200!!! No single handed gimbal can balance that usefully. I am waiting for a7siii though, really want that sweet af-c trying to score a helix let us so I can use the 70-200 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, wolf33d said: Anyway, 10 bit is nice but not more important for me than things like good video AF or IBIS. (...) A shaky video is trash, focus hunting is trash. So does banding for sure, so go external recording 'cause beyond 10-bit only solid high bitrate can end to help : ) Turn off AF continuous or/and use editing in order to prevent such hunting. Use tripod and slider old school or then IBIS, a gimbal or yet any other software (there is also hardware*) workaround to fix any shaky hands :-) * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borbarad Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 Hmm.... how did the BBC change something with Sony’s color???? didnt get that point....... B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 That Song Sounds like Black Wedding. Hard to do anything new in R&R anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Gentles Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 ok the color is better but i still don't like the sony image! Always looks fake, like a videocam image looks fake, I know it's 4K image etc but all sony cameras have this fake look about them? Don't know why other PPL don't see it? ps I used some of the best sony cameras almost every day for 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Emanuel said: Really? Who says so? Rumors spread on web? In any case, a combo should somehow mean a sort of match no? I'd rather tend to call a welcome update to the latest one instead... Really? Who said it won't? Your imagination? Truth is you do not know more than I do on this one. But logical people like Andrew in this article, think that it is the logical step after A7SII considering the GH5 competition. 2 hours ago, scotchtape said: @wolf33d generally speaking the Sony FF system is way heavier than mft because the lenses are crazy heavy. Panasonic 35-100mm is half the weight of sony 70-200. You can put gh5+35-100mm on single handed gimbal. Try doing that with the a7+70-200!!! No single handed gimbal can balance that usefully. I am waiting for a7siii though, really want that sweet af-c trying to score a helix let us so I can use the 70-200 as well. That's true, most Sony lenses will be heavier and the combo lens + body too. But honestly I have never used a 200mm on a gimbal and will never do. I have used extensively the A7RII on gimbal with no issue regarding weight. 5 minutes ago, Henry Gentles said: ok the color is better but i still don't like the sony image! Always looks fake, like a videocam image looks fake, I know it's 4K image etc but all sony cameras have this fake look about them? Don't know why other PPL don't see it? ps I used some of the best sony cameras almost every day for 2 years. I do not agree. I have posted, and many other before and after me, Sony videos that do not look fake at all. Attached is a screenshot of one of my video. Does not look like videocam fake to me. Plus Andrew says vast improvement in colors with mark III. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 reverently 1 hour ago, wolf33d said: Really? Who said it won't? Your imagination? Truth is you do not know more than I do on this one. But logical people like Andrew in this article, think that it is the logical step after A7SII considering the GH5 competition. Man, chill out. You tend to freak out when people contradict your posts : ) Did I say it won't? I hinted that I don't believe it. A bit different. In a reverently distinct tone, someone else is already logical, why pal? Because me and you, we are his hosts or for a sort of colloquial paternalism upside down your posts along this thread express instead?! Funny you fail to offer the same behavior towards the camera maker when you don't appreciate the announcement... LOL ; ) Reminds me the Mavic drone you ended to fly : D BTW and following you now... Does Andrew know more than me or you? C'mon... wishful list is a wishful list :-D Actually, I wrote that would be a "welcome update to the latest one instead" so quite the opposite what you're inferring from my words. I am always used to read your B&W posts whenever any launch is made, before the product reaches the shelves. Your run-n-gun love dictates much more FUD than useful solutions. Problems don't pay the bills, learning harder the craft does ; ) There's no free soup ; )) No AF upgrade can save us when not! hehe Sorry mate but you're invariably too much stubborn on your (techie) criticism when anything gives you absence of total control about ;-) That's what it is, that's what I see in your usual 'but'(s) : ) Time to also share some doubts on the choices of your own, because your intended certainty you seem to look for applies enough predictability there as well :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregormannschaft Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 What a brilliant find, nice one @Andrew Reid. Especially given that I'm guessing the EOSHD Colour thing is a big earner for you, you could have kept this quiet. I'm guessing the specific colour mode that is in there BT.2020 is a broadcast specific colour mode specifically for BBC? The footage you shot looks really beautiful, would be curious to see it at night and during the day, that is if Berlin feels like having a sunny day anytime soon. PannySVHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 27 minutes ago, Gregormannschaft said: @Andrew ReidThe footage you shot looks really beautiful, would be curious to see it at night and during the day, that is if Berlin feels like having a sunny day anytime soon. Hey Gregor, tomorrow it´s gonna be beautiful in Berlin. So Andrew should grab a shot or two, don´t you think?:) We would love to see some classic footage from the fleamarket crowd and all the chills and thrills in beautiful sun and sunset, hmm, sunrise too, it´s gonna be a long day of beautiful footage!!!:) Gregormannschaft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahwah Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Henry Gentles said: ok the color is better but i still don't like the sony image! Always looks fake, like a videocam image looks fake, I know it's 4K image etc but all sony cameras have this fake look about them? Don't know why other PPL don't see it? ps I used some of the best sony cameras almost every day for 2 years. On every post I read about a camera (not just Sony!), here or on other sites, there is a comment like this. I'm just not sure what you mean. Can you post a link to a digital video image that doesn't look fake to you and elaborate on what looks "fake" to you in this video? maxmizer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted January 13, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted January 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Gregormannschaft said: What a brilliant find, nice one @Andrew Reid. Especially given that I'm guessing the EOSHD Colour thing is a big earner for you, you could have kept this quiet. I'm guessing the specific colour mode that is in there BT.2020 is a broadcast specific colour mode specifically for BBC? The footage you shot looks really beautiful, would be curious to see it at night and during the day, that is if Berlin feels like having a sunny day anytime soon. It doesn’t change the situation with Pro Color because the A7R III doesn’t let you select BT.2020 with a standard gamma curve, only LOG (HLG) mode... So you can’t use it for straight out of camera colour (which is what EOSHD Pro Color is for). You need to add a LUT. In the article I say BT.2020 is developed jointly by BBC and NHK. It’s not a Sony standard but a HDR broadcast standard. Canon use it as well. S-Gammut is the Sony equivilent wide colour space. And that needs tweaking to work well and / or expert grading. Nathan Gabriel and Gregormannschaft 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 5 hours ago, Emanuel said: reverently Man, chill out. You tend to freak out when people contradict your posts : ) Did I say it won't? I hinted that I don't believe it. A bit different. In a reverently distinct tone, someone else is already logical, why pal? Because me and you, we are his hosts or for a sort of colloquial paternalism upside down your posts along this thread express instead?! Funny you fail to offer the same behavior towards the camera maker when you don't appreciate the announcement... LOL ; ) Reminds me the Mavic drone you ended to fly : D BTW and following you now... Does Andrew know more than me or you? C'mon... wishful list is a wishful list :-D Actually, I wrote that would be a "welcome update to the latest one instead" so quite the opposite what you're inferring from my words. I am always used to read your B&W posts whenever any launch is made, before the product reaches the shelves. Your run-n-gun love dictates much more FUD than useful solutions. Problems don't pay the bills, learning harder the craft does ; ) There's no free soup ; )) No AF upgrade can save us when not! hehe Sorry mate but you're invariably too much stubborn on your (techie) criticism when anything gives you absence of total control about ;-) That's what it is, that's what I see in your usual 'but'(s) : ) Time to also share some doubts on the choices of your own, because your intended certainty you seem to look for applies enough predictability there as well :-) Thanks for trying to analyze my personal behavior on the forum lol... I am not sure I could make sense of your post though. In a more basic way, it sounds to me that you were the one who came and argue with all of that. I was juste positively commenting that the A7SIII and RIII should be a great combo to which you answered "in 8 bit" which triggered the rest. Anyway, peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Maze Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Andrew, great article! I never tested HLG! I need to try that. Seems promising. I did a review of the camera after shooting a doc, a wedding, and vlog and really believe that it’s one of the best all around cameras right now. Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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