Sony A7R III review - the BBC fixed Sony's colour!

[Andrew Reid]

26 minutes ago, mercer said:

It gets great reviews but it’s big and heavy. But I love my old Minolta 24-35mm and my Tokina 24-40mm... just a great focal range for a zoom in my opinion... so awesome as a two primes in one solution with that ability to punch in or out a bit when needed. 

24-35 is like having a 24-50 F2 constant on the A7R III due to Super 35mm crop mode.

[Asmundma]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

To be fair, Sony 24-70mm F2.8 GM is a brick as well

24-70 F4 on the other hand... tiny. But is it any good? Anyone used it?

I had it. Did not stand to my quality requirements. The 16-35 F4 is much better. SO I have the brick......

[mercer]

@Andrew Reid That’s right... it would be a perfect walk around lens for me. If you need some length, keep the 85mm 1.4,  non Art (half the price of the Art version but probably the same lens or close enough) in your bag, just in case. Great two lens solution.

[Django]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

What in video are you Ever going to need to use Super Shallow DoF? Put a Speedbooster on the GH5s and you are up , hell with this new sensor, at least s35, maybe APSH. How much difference is that compared to FF? Sure as hell not enough for me to want to have to use expensive as hell FE, or heavy Canon lenses on one.

And if it rains or gets wet what then? Waterproofing on the A7 series bodies is shit! I had one, it did not exude confidence out in the elements, even sand I can tell you that much.

I think the New A7r mk III probably is the best all rounder out there. For Video and Photo. One stop shopping. But I think this new GH5s maybe a better Cine only camera at this moment. Yeah AF, well we won't go there... But touchscreen AF, now that works pretty well. I still say if you are going big time, Manual Focus Lenses all the way. And MF Cine lenses to boot if you win the Lotto.

If I am going to the film in Africa in the boon docks I want a Canon Cx00 with DPAF. Simple as that for Documentary work.

well there you have it: different cameras for different types of shooters. lotta people can only afford and want a single body for both photo & video. a lot of people also like FF aesthetic & super shallow DOF (casey neistat even switched back from 4K GH5S to 1080p on Canon simply for the FF look -not sure that was the best choice but it does say something-). there are also advantages of being able to use native glass for your APS-C & FF needs without having to rely on speed boosters. DPAF/PDAF comes in very handy for a variety of situations from run & gun, gimbal use or if your stuck with internal 3" displays, especially with resolution/detail becoming so high. it just makes your life easier.

sony have addressed a lot of their ergonomics, battery life etc.. issues with the A9/A7R3. AF is getting real solid. on the photo side A7R3 is basically camera of the year. the only thing that was still their biggest issue was the color science & weak AWB. so the fact this is now fixed and on par with Canon is quite big news imo. If the A7S3 has 10-bit, then it might just be game over for the competition. In the meantime i'm definitely going to rent an A7R3 and test all this out for myself.. 

[Emanuel]

3 hours ago, wolf33d said:

At the moment I am waiting for DJI announcement on Jan 23. I am tired of the shitty image quality of my Mavic. It's a pain in the ass but has given me good money which is why I kept it. Why on earth are they not releasing a drone with the 1inch sensor camera of P4 Pro, with folding concept like mavic?! Be sure I will be here to comment what seems to be a new kind of Mavic next week

Come on, I was sold and you come here and depress me. 
You are true... Sony sucks, most of what constitute their product sucks: reliability, weather sealing, menus, ergonomics, heating, long exposure... 
In fact usability sucks VS Canikon. 
Yet they are the only one giving us a well specced line of hybrid video photo FF mirrorless. As of Jan 2018, this out-weights usability issues for me. Pray for no dead pixel or deal with it. Don't put the camera in heavy rain (I would not do it with a 5DIV either), and deal with the menus man. 

Not tuned on that announcement. Are you sure it is Mavic related? What about the Osmo handle for the X5S? We're waiting that for ages... Positive wishful thinking hasn't helped out much.

Glad that has given to you good money though. So seems to reconsider and buy something we said nah is not so bad after all... LOL ;-)

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Cut it out Emanuel

The forum is not about you.

Sick of reading the argument stuff.

Thanks God it is not, Andrew! : D Trust me, it is a pain to end frustrated so many times. I am far to be alone on that one. Every day I hear people (in the real world) complaining about that. It is not free negativism, nor GH5S fanboism and never naysayer attitude against a brand (my 1st love, man!).

To my personal experience (sorry it again hehe) more the 8-bit mantra than reliability issues (perhaps better luck with the units arrived here) but that's what I am used to listen people say in the real world too.

[Andrew Reid]

Yeah but Emmanuel, I read the forum every day even when too busy to reply and WAY too often I read stuff like this in various threads from you...

"in my usual condescend tone addressed to you (sorry, couldn't resist!), no idea if I must say I really do like this post of yours or not... LOL Something I know though, even when I am in doubt or I disagree with you, you still are one of my fav readings over here"

What's this banter got to do with cameras?

What's the point of it littering up the threads?

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yeah but Emmanuel, I read the forum every day even when too busy to reply and WAY too often I read stuff like this in various threads from you...

"in my usual condescend tone addressed to you (sorry, couldn't resist!), no idea if I must say I really do like this post of yours or not... LOL Something I know though, even when I am in doubt or I disagree with you, you still are one of my fav readings over here"

What's this banter got to do with cameras?

What's the point of it littering up the threads?

A private joke, fellow. This has to do with a previous conversation (about cameras) with another user. Which started with my customary use of calling people by their real names rather than the username when I know to whom I'm addressing some words even online. Someone who became more private when you're growing up friendships over here. Personal relationships we develop here, you know. While camera talk stands. I don't think a way of expressing our comrade feelings among us may look odd. From a certain point on, we trade private messaging through your own forum among others to obviously follow other tools in the real life too. Why not? I've had the chance to make good friends from these boards. A few of them no Ocean in-between made that impossible. Such a pride? Well, go all for it : ) And if you pay more attention, there are other people here on the same route now to personally addressing by their 1st name too. That I find very healthy of a forum you've created. So kudos to all, I guess :-)

[Dave Maze]

I need to test the HLG but even with EOSHD color profile I wasn’t happy with the color on the r3. I know it’s subjective but I just can’t get over it. I’m in alaska right now shooting on my 1DC and I’m so happy with the color and image quality. Also using a big hefty body in -3 degree weather that’s designed to withstand that temperature is so nice. 

[Trek of Joy]

50 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

I need to test the HLG but even with EOSHD color profile I wasn’t happy with the color on the r3. I know it’s subjective but I just can’t get over it. I’m in alaska right now shooting on my 1DC and I’m so happy with the color and image quality. Also using a big hefty body in -3 degree weather that’s designed to withstand that temperature is so nice. 

Kiana, sweet. I grew up in Alaska, never been there, but been to the area. Its a magical place. Enjoy.

Chris

[Daniel J]

Does LCD screen work when recording 4K with external monitor attached? Does face detect autofocus work when external monitor attached? Those were my main issues with 6500/a7rii

[Oliver Daniel]

15 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Sounds like you need to sell all that stuff and buy a EVA1, or a Canon C200, used C300 mkII, Sony FS5 and be done with it. These consumer cameras are just that, compromises on top of compromises. One brand, one lens type solution.

Just a few months ago I had an FS5 and Shogun Inferno with RAW update. The kit was great however I didn't't really enjoy using it. So I ditched it and went GH5, and I find the quality of my work has improved due to the creative liberation and portability you get from it. 

If I did get any of these cameras, I'd probably go C200. Got Sigma ART lenses, Canon colour and DPAF = win! Not at all on the list though. Depends on what I'm doing. 

[Geoff CB]

On 1/13/2018 at 11:31 AM, wolf33d said:

A7SIII should be 10bit. Anyway, 10 bit is nice but not more important for me than things like good video AF or IBIS. I have found 8 bit easily gradable and people have posted master piece 8 bit cinematic videos where you would not tell the difference with 10bit. It does not really change how people see your content. IBIS and AF does. A shaky video is trash, focus hunting is trash. 

 

@Andrew Reid I found the HLG different profile significations: 
 

HLG: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Equivalent to the HDR standard Hybrid Log-Gamma, ITU-R BT.2100.

HLG1: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Emphasizes noise reduction. However, shooting is restricted to a narrower dynamic range than with [HLG2] or [HLG3].

HLG2: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Provides a balance of dynamic range and noise reduction.

HLG3: Gamma curve for HDR recording. Wider dynamic range than [HLG2]. However, noise may increase.

[HLG1], [HLG2], and [HLG3] all apply a gamma curve with the same characteristics, but each offers a different balance between dynamic range and noise reduction. Each has a different maximum video output level, as follows: [HLG1]: approx. 87%, [HLG2]: approx. 95%, [HLG3]: approx. 100%.

AS seen here http://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1710/v1/en/contents/TP0001211745.html

@Andrew Reid which one did you like?

Thank you for that information on the bottom!

 

[Dave Maze]

4 hours ago, Daniel J said:

Does LCD screen work when recording 4K with external monitor attached? Does face detect autofocus work when external monitor attached? Those were my main issues with 6500/a7rii

LCD nope. Face detection not sure

[jonpais]

I’ve kept an open mind about the a7riii for video, but it looks as though it’s still got a few quirks to work out before I make the switch to Sony. 

[darrellcraig]

19 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

To be fair, Sony 24-70mm F2.8 GM is a brick as well

24-70 F4 on the other hand... tiny. But is it any good? Anyone used it?

I had 24-70/4 and GM with A7RII...

Tons of quality detailed reviews on glass (from photo perspective) over on Fredmiranda.com.

24-70/4 is good in the middle of the range, corners never get sharp in corners, weak at end points of the zoom. Color and contrast generally regarded OK though I didn't care for them - the image often seemed very flat. Would sometimes get a nice image, but didn't consistently deliver pleasing images (unlike the 24-70 and the better FE/Batis/Loxia primes).

There is a bunch of testing that Fred Miranda has done on the new 24-105 and that is shaping up to be a fantastic zoom... outperforms the 24-70 at the long end, really sharp throughout the range. Validated by a bunch of other photographers with the lens on the same forum. There is likely a reason it is sold out everywhere. Sounds intriguing if you don't need the f/2.8.

[horshack]

On 1/13/2018 at 9:28 PM, mercer said:

The GH5s uses a Sony sensor capable of Dual ISO... so I’m pretty sure Sony could have Dual ISO on an upcoming camera, so I doubt Sony is too worried about Panasonic. Hell, Panasonic isn’t even in the top 3 of mirrorless sales in their own country.

Sony has had "dual native ISO" in their sensors going back to the A7s, and it's in the A7r II and A7r III as well. It's a pretty mature technology and was invented by Aptina - you can read the original white paper on it here: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Aptina/DR-Pix_WhitePaper.pdf

[webrunner5]

53 minutes ago, horshack said:

Sony has had "dual native ISO" in their sensors going back to the A7s, and it's in the A7r II and A7r III as well. It's a pretty mature technology and was invented by Aptina - you can read the original white paper on it here: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Aptina/DR-Pix_WhitePaper.pdf

I don't think there is Any dual native thing going on in Any Sony A7 series camera. There used to be the misconception that it had a different base ISO in Photo and Video. That was proven wrong also long ago. I would love to be proven wrong though. Yeah there is an extended ISO, that is not really Dual ISO's. Almost Every camera has that feature.

This was written a Long time ago on DPR. And Jim Kasson is a wiz at all this stuff and DR.

 

"JimKasson wrote:

JDLaing wrote:

What is the native ISO on the Sony a7II? 100 or 200?

Do you mean base ISO? In that case, it's 100.

I this I consider this sensor to have two "base ISO" - one for both conversion gains. ISO 100 is one of them, the other seems to be ISO 650.

I'm not sure how "base ISO" is or should be defined though, but for me it's usually been the point with the least gain amplification. And for this sensor (and the A7S) sensor there would be two such points

Let's define the base ISO of a digital cameras the ISO setting for which the gain at the output of the analog to digital converter (ADC), measured in counts per electron, is the lowest. In most cameras, it is the setting where the upper end of the linear region of the pixel voltage/electron count curve produces a full scale output from the ADC.

Let’s say that the full well capacity (FWC) of the a7RII when the ISO is set to 100 is 50,000 electrons. That’s close to the real value. You will see that the exact number doesn’t affect the conclusions of the calculation to follow. Full scale on the a7RII is 16372. But that is before the black point is subtracted. The nominal black point of the a7RII, like all the a7x cameras, is 512, so let’s say that full scale is 15860. You will see that the exact value is not important either, but it’s nice to keep things real. Thus, the gain, at ISO 100 is 15860/50000 = 0.317 counts per electron (you may be used to seeing the inverse of this number, or 3.15 electrons per count).

At ISO 500, just before the conversion gain is changed, the gain must be (500/100)*0.317 = 1.58 counts per electron.

By looking at the read noise curves here, you can see that the conversion gain change is a little over one stop. Actually, you can get the answer to the entire question by inspection of the top curve, but I’ll leave that analysis as an exercise for the interested student.

Let’s be generous and say that the conversion gain changes by a factor of three. So the gain that we’re looking at must be (640/100)*0.317/3 = 0.676. That is larger than the gain at ISO 100 by a factor of more than two, so the a7RII does not have two base ISOs.

With the a7S, it isn’t even close, since the conversion gain change happens at a much higher ISO.

Jim"

[Don Kotlos]

2 hours ago, horshack said:

Sony has had "dual native ISO" in their sensors going back to the A7s, and it's in the A7r II and A7r III as well. It's a pretty mature technology and was invented by Aptina - you can read the original white paper on it here: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Aptina/DR-Pix_WhitePaper.pdf

If the "native" term is used as loosely as Panasonic marketing team then yes that is correct More correct is that dual gain has been around for quite some time, used by many cameras.

Generally, native ISO should mean an ISO setting without any gain applied, but Panasonic defines two native ISOs as two base ISO settings that yield similar noise profiles:

The varicams get the closest to actually having dual native/base ISO, but the EVA1 (and I am guessing the GH5s as well) does not (http://zsyst.com/2017/12/panasonic-eva1-first-look/):

 

Whereas the noise profiles from Sony cameras come very close (A7s is even closer to true native ISO than EVA1...):

This tells you how well Panasonic plays the marketing game. 

 

[Emanuel]

That's only half true... It is not exactly what Adam Wilt has proved it:

https://www.provideocoalition.com/review-panasonic-au-eva1-4k-cine-camera-part-3/

"Native 2500 is noisier than native 800 is, but the advantage of dual native ISOs is that the higher native ISO is less noisy than it would be were it derived from the lower base ISO."

Boosted:

[Andrew Reid]

23 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I had the 24-70mm F4 and I didn't like it at all. It's very sharp but the fly by wire focus sucks and the image aesthetic is pretty boring. The body of the lens isn't the strongest either. Kinda reminds me of the Lumix 12-35mm on a GH camera. SHARP AND BORING!

Onto the camera, I've been 90% GH5 in the last few months yet still use an A6500 on a gimbal because of the AF. Rarely use the A7SII at the mo. 

I find the A7RIII interesting as a hybrid - the AF is a huge plus for gimbals work plus mega resolution stills. It's just the damn lenses and the reliability that I'm not convinced with. Got EF and M43 glass, too much to get E-mount as well. (i want ALL the glass!!) 

Cameras are so bloody distracting. 

Just got the Sigma 24-35mm F2.0, it's an amazing looking image

The big surprise is this...

With the Sigma MC-11 adapter it tracks AF in video mode like a Sony FE mount lens.

The Metabones adapter does not do this.

Going to try a few more lenses on the MC-11... The adapter is just superb with Sigma's own stuff on the A7R3