Your Nikon mirrorless wishes

[leeys]

18 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Why? We have almost nothing to compare to. It has been many many MANY years since Nikon launched a new lens system. 

With one exception: Nikon 1, back in 2011. 

Which saw four lenses at the initial launch:

https://***URL removed***/articles/9033467782/nikonlenses

Which is greater than the "minimum three" I expect their new mirrorless system to have. And I expect them to take this even more seriously than they took Nikon 1, thus it wouldn't surprise me if they launch with more lenses than Nikon 1 had initially. 

I meant product launches, not necessarily system launches.

Traditionally Nikon does what, 4-6 lenses a year? For a line that needs a mix of lenses I doubt Nikon will be able to launch the kind of line-up needed to keep both consumers and pros interested. We're looking at a kit zoom, a telephoto zoom and no more than 2 primes.

To really get off the ground running they need a trifecta of primes (20/50/105 for me, others have a different trio in mind) along with at least two pro grade zooms with the promise of a third. Along with said consumer zoom.

Also look at both the Nikon 1 and DX line, they've been awful in filling gaps for both of them, especially so considering DX should be their main moneymaker but they keep on expecting people to trade up to FX.

17 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

With the Z-mount or whatever it winds up being called - it would make sense to start with 3 primes and a zoom or two. And I think it'll definitely be FF, a new line with low margin bodies makes no sense. It would be nice if they did some combo of the 21/24/28/35/50/85 right off the bat. Make them all 1.8's, the uber 1.4 G's can come later. And a mirrorless version of the 24-120/4. A 70-200/4 would be a smart move too - that way you can get a relatively complete kit with a wide range right off the bat. Sony had the 28/2, 35/2.8, 55/1.8, 24-70 & 70-200/4 when the a7 was released. Plus that crappy plastic kit lens.

Also, publish a damn roadmap so early adopters can have a little sense of what's coming in the next year or so. Put a long tele, a few fast primes and the 2.8 zoom holy trinity of 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 on it. 

P.S. Nikon should call the new mount 'MF' for mirrorless F mount. The tagline possibilities are limitless.

Chris

That's also a good start, but I don't quite have the confidence in Nikon that they'll be able to pull this off. DX languished for so long even before FX came, and this was during a crucial period of time when Canon were fighting to take back their market share from Nikon.

[IronFilm]

16 minutes ago, leeys said:

I meant product launches, not necessarily system launches.

Yes, but obviously Nikon will treat their new system launch very very differently than any other year. (well, you'd better hope so!!)
 

17 minutes ago, leeys said:

Also look at both the Nikon 1 and DX line, they've been awful in filling gaps for both of them, especially so considering DX should be their main moneymaker but they keep on expecting people to trade up to FX.

"Buzz buzz buzz"

Thom Hogan has been going on about this for years! And I agree. Big oversight by Nikon. 

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/buzz-buzz-dx-lenses-.html

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/more-buzzing-about-missing.html

 

 

[leeys]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Yes, but obviously Nikon will treat their new system launch very very differently than any other year. (well, you'd better hope so!!)
 

"Buzz buzz buzz"

Thom Hogan has been going on about this for years! And I agree. Big oversight by Nikon. 

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/buzz-buzz-dx-lenses-.html

http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/more-buzzing-about-missing.html

 

 

Don't really have confidence; I shot with Nikon for 15 years, so I've had first-hand frustration with lenses. Having tried the first GH1 and liking it I eventually made the move to Panasonic. 

[Geoff CB]

- A NX1 sized body.
- IBIS
- A7r II sensor as a base
- Video Quality from D850
- Dual Card Slots.
- Mini or Full Size HDMI out.

That is all it would take for me to buy. I love my A7r II, but miss Nikon Lenses.

[salim]

Minimal:

D810 sensor (DR and colors) 

Sony A7Riii level focus ability (with native Z-mount lenses and adapted Nikon G lenses)

small but sharp 28/f2.8 or 35/f2.8 lens at launch. 

Plus:

IBIS (probably wont happen, at least 1-2 generations later)

10bit 4k video 

D810 level weather sealing

[Cinegain]

Really, if anyone comes out with a stills camera without sensor stabilization it will be a huge miss. Because that's one of the main advantages of mirrorless innovation right now over flagship DSLR capabilities. Worth so much for primes or allowing slower shutter times to expose the scene properly without compromising on depth of field or high ISO noise. Olympus had that bang on with the introduction of the OM-D E-M1 and Fujifilm and EOS-M really need to follow as well with their next release.

[Andrew Reid]

The problem is Nikon doesn't have much unique to Nikon that they can bring to the mirrorless market.

They will just have to make it slightly better in every way.

Ergonomics are probably the area they can do well in. A full frame NX1 body would be ideal. Not some vintage shit.

D810 sensor? No thanks.

D850 sensor, that's more like it. The D810 sensor isn't cable of 4K.

It has to have IBIS to compete with Sony.

10bit 4K video to compete with Panasonic.

It's a lot to ask from a first generation product, so my hopes aren't high and I probably won't buy it.

It has to have a good lens adapter to Canon and great AF too... and not just great stills AF but in video mode too. Biggest weakness of the D850 is the video / live-view AF.

It takes time to build an eco-system with third party companies making Speed Boosters and Smart-EF adapters, such-like. Another reason it's probably going to be better to wait until the 3rd or 4th model.

If it does something amazing right off the bat that nobody else gives you though.... THAT would be reason enough to take it for a spin.

[leeys]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It has to have a good lens adapter to Canon

This is never going to happen. Nikon are an optics company at heart and they'll fold before letting their cameras officially use non-Nikon glass.

1 hour ago, Cinegain said:

Really, if anyone comes out with a stills camera without sensor stabilization it will be a huge miss. Because that's one of the main advantages of mirrorless innovation right now over flagship DSLR capabilities. Worth so much for primes or allowing slower shutter times to expose the scene properly without compromising on depth of field or high ISO noise. Olympus had that bang on with the introduction of the OM-D E-M1 and Fujifilm and EOS-M really need to follow as well with their next release.

Errr, sensor stabilsation doesn't depend on the lack of a mirror. Pentax and Minolta both did it in the DSLRs.

This one I'm not sure. Nikon can be really conservative at times, but hopefully they'll see the usefulness of it, for both photographers and videographers, as well as a marketing point.

[webrunner5]

I just really don't see how Canon or Nikon can come out with a new FF Mirrorless that is going to knock the socks off of a Sony A&r mk III. Unless they just copy everything it does. Nikon does have access to Sony FF sensors. Canon never has used a Sony sensor that big.

They have a hell of a task in front of them. I think it is make or break for Nikon, and Canon, well they can still shit around a bit, but they have been pushing their luck to the limits I think on the Consumer end with this no 4k crap, and if it has it gimped as hell crop wise. I think Canon has to go big or go home even bigger than Nikon in a sense. This stuff is the future like it or not.

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

- A7r II sensor as a base

I'd be fine with the D500/D7500 sensor being used, so long as they can then do full sensor read out for 4K (& not crop)

[gethin]

On 14/01/2018 at 11:46 PM, Cinegain said:

Probably D5600 form factor

I'd be fine with something a bit thinner than a DSLR, any size between the d5500 and the d800.  I dont think they need to do much to make a winner if the d850 is anything to go by. A mirrorless D850 with a cracking EVF and 10 bit video.  If the first gen has IBIS I'll eat my shorts

[Santiago de la Rosa]

A Nikon NX500, 10 bit 4:2:2 to use my nikon lenses without adapters.

A Nikon NX1 with IBIS and anamorphic, same mount.

Both fairly priced.

[Django]

I'd love for Canikon to come out with a great FF mirrorless system with excellent video specs but have strong doubts on how/if that will happen. 

Canon keep trying to protect the C line so i don't see them putting out a large sensor 4k mirrorless with PDAF, log, assist features & a manageable codec just yet..

And Nikon just have so much catching up to do in the video department (no log, no peaking, weak AF,  low bitrate codecs etc..)

[Geoff CB]

1 hour ago, Django said:

I'd love for Canikon to come out with a great FF mirrorless system with excellent video specs but have strong doubts on how/if that will happen. 

Canon keep trying to protect the C line so i don't see them putting out a large sensor 4k mirrorless with PDAF, log, assist features & a manageable codec just yet..

And Nikon just have so much catching up to do in the video department (no log, no peaking, weak AF,  low bitrate codecs etc..)

I actually really enjoy using Nikon's "FLAT" profile. Gets a ton of DR and easy to grade. My hope is that because Nikon has no Cinema line to protect, they go full on 10-bit 4:2:2 out of the gate. The footage from the D850 is spectacular for 8-bit, I just want that in a mirrorless body.

[Kisaha]

No way Nikon will do 10bit 4:2:2 internal. I just hope for no cropped 4K!

Do not forget that Panasonic had to make a utilitarian big and heavy dSRL body like (GH5) to achieve good thermal performance. I am sure Nikon will go the “pretty” way, more form than factor. If anyone wants a more pro body, there are always a few  dSLRs on their line up, and some equally in size/weight with the GH5.

With all said, good old 8bit 4:2:0 is enough for most jobs and most amateurs. not everyone has an expensive 10 bit workflow, and if they do, probably care for different form factored cameras and real cine lenses.

I do not see them doing IBIS, anamorphic, or fair price either! Maybe they will try IBIS for the very first time, it is a strong selling point these days, but probably a Dual IS (lens+ electronic stabilizer) is more possible.

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, Django said:

 

And Nikon just have so much catching up to do in the video department (no log, no peaking, weak AF,  low bitrate codecs etc..)

 

As of the D850 we now have a Nikon with focus peaking. Finally.

[mat33]

So basically If Nikon made a D760 with 10bit 4K, IBIS, and a hybrid optical/Evf it would be exactly what everyone wants apart from not being able to adapt other manufacturers lens to it. 

[eleison]

22 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The problem is Nikon doesn't have much unique to Nikon that they can bring to the mirrorless market.

....

.....

It takes time to build an eco-system with third party companies making Speed Boosters and Smart-EF adapters, such-like. Another reason it's probably going to be better to wait until the 3rd or 4th model.

 

If nobody buys into the first generation Nikon mirrorless, I don't think the company has that many resources to create a 3rd or 4th model.  Nikon (from all the rumors) are hurting quite a bit since they do not have anything else to sell except for cameras.  Canon has sensors, security equipment, printers, etc...  Sony has video games, radios, etc...

 

The place Nikon is at is precarious.  The company is at the edge of the cliff looking down into the abyss. I wouldn't want to be them.  Nikon needs to do something miraculous with their up and coming mirror-less camera or else they are done.

[Cinegain]

30 minutes ago, mat33 said:

So basically If Nikon made a D760 with 10bit 4K, IBIS, and a hybrid optical/Evf it would be exactly what everyone wants apart from not being able to adapt other manufacturers lens to it. 

You know, back in 2015 (likely in response to Canon's Video Creator kits), they'd gotten all funky on us with:

There's even a link to a PDF regarding HD-SLR video compatibility... and a learning center.

Who's to say they won't throw us a bone in 2018...

[IronFilm]

Nikon even has a website for filmmakers and a competition for Nikon made films.

Plus they have focus peaking now, which Canon still hasn't done. And Nikon beat Canon to putting 4K into a non-Cinema camera.

Also Nikon beat Canon to adding 60fps in a DSLR.

And let's no forget it was Nikon who started this all off! With the first ever HDSLR.

So while yes it is fair to criticise Nikon for not doing as much as Sony or Panasonic, at least relative to Canon they've got some things going for them. And hopefully Nikon might surprise us with their mirrorless, at least by Canon standards! Ha