Is the EOS-M *THE* Digital Super-8 Camera?

[youshouldtry11]

Thanks for everyone's useful information and sharing.

I am looking to purchase a second-hand EOS M as a digital super8 that shoot vintage-looking footage (I can't afford shooting films!)
I want to shoot in a maximum bitrate as possible and doesn't mind a 3x/5x crop/even in 720p as can use super8/super16 lenses for it
(I won't shoot RAW video as it seems relatively unstable)

However, I don't understand what exactly is the crop for the current ML update for EOS M max bitrate video recording, can someone please help?
therefore I am struggling to choose a lens for this setup. I really wanted a vintage looking, manual zoom lens that is parfocal and relatively fast and can be mounted on the Eos M.
Considering to mimic the super 8 film look, I am not looking for crazy reach or superior sharpness.

@cantsin's Schneider Variogon 6-66mm/f1.8 Leica M mount lens  & C mount Angenieux 8-64mm/f1.9 seems to be a great fit but I can't seems to find it, 
and I am not sure if the newer version ML can still shoot in the 5x crop with maximum bitrate/significant crop.

Can someone using ML please tell me the crop in video and recommend some lens for me?
are super 8/ super 16 lens good for the crop of ML new update?
I am currently considering these lenses but I am not sure if it can be mounted/ the image circle can be used without a significant crop in post.

SCHNEIDER-KREUZNACH VARIOGON 7.5 - 37.5mm F1.8 CINE ZOOM LENS

Pentax TV Zoom Lens 8-48mm 1:1.0 Auto-Iris TV Lens - C Mount

Schneider-Kreuznach Variogon 1.8/9-30mm

Schneider Objektiv Optivaron 6-66 Macro 1:1,8 Filmkamera 8mm

Please correct me if I am wrong and I appreciate everybody's help and opinion!!! ❤️
Thanks for everyone reading this!!!
 

On 7/26/2018 at 5:27 PM, Alpicat said:

Thanks @tupp. I guess this update makes the title of this thread slightly out of date now!

Here's the build I used: https://bitbucket.org/Dannephoto/magic-lantern/downloads/magiclantern-Nightly.2018Jul03.EOSM202_mv1080p.zip   With this build you're stuck with shooting full sensor only (3x3 pixel binning), you can't switch to 5x zoom mode. They may have partially fixed that in the newest build but unsure if you can then access the full sensor height, I'll need to test. See here: https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=19300.msg204564#msg204564  

I shot that footage at iso 100 and iso 400, f3.5 and above. I later noticed that if I export to prores on MLVapp I get less noise in the shadows that exporting to cdng (which can look really excessive if you push up the shadows). However I don't know if I tested this fairly and will have to experiment further. The above video is cdng.

Right now the main issue is liveview preview is streched vertically 1.6x (preview looks like you have an anamorphic lens attached) and you can only see the top half of the image. It's still usable though and half-pressing the shutter gives you a low fps / pixelated preview of the whole frame.

The moire/aliaising can get fairly bad depending on what you're filming, and can become very obvious if cropping in on an image. I guess it's now the same amount as you get with all the other aps-c Canon DSLRs, or it's similar to the bmpcc. Exporting to prores rather than cdng on mlvapp can sometimes reduce the amount of moire - I need to test this further though.

 

[Alpicat]

@youshouldtry11 if you plan to use super 8 lenses, you're best off using "movie crop mode" and cropping to 4:3 aspect ratio in post to get rid of most of the vignetting. Movie crop mode in h.264 (1920x1080 resolution) is similar or same to the field of view you get with movie crop mode in raw (1080x1030 resolution). This is a 4.66x crop from full frame - which is larger than super 8, but cropping to 4:3 aspect ratio will get rid of most of the vignetting.  Below are tests I did with the eos m and schneider 6-66mm f1.8 which I had posted here a few pages back. I shot this in raw at 1800x1024 in movie crop mode. 

For this lens I think the fotodiox adapter is the best one that will give you parfocal lens performance, from what I heard. It's tough to find an adapter that works as they all seem to be really different.

If you want to use super 16mm lenses and shoot raw, there's also the option of using 5x zoom mode with a max stable resolution of 2520x1080 (3.33x crop from full frame), this is close to 16mm (rather than s16). However, it isn't possible to shoot this resolution with regular h.264 video. 

 

 

[youshouldtry11]

14 hours ago, Alpicat said:

@youshouldtry11 if you plan to use super 8 lenses, you're best off using "movie crop mode" and cropping to 4:3 aspect ratio in post to get rid of most of the vignetting. Movie crop mode in h.264 (1920x1080 resolution) is similar or same to the field of view you get with movie crop mode in raw (1080x1030 resolution). This is a 4.66x crop from full frame - which is larger than super 8, but cropping to 4:3 aspect ratio will get rid of most of the vignetting.  Below are tests I did with the eos m and schneider 6-66mm f1.8 which I had posted here a few pages back. I shot this in raw at 1800x1024 in movie crop mode. 

For this lens I think the fotodiox adapter is the best one that will give you parfocal lens performance, from what I heard. It's tough to find an adapter that works as they all seem to be really different.

If you want to use super 16mm lenses and shoot raw, there's also the option of using 5x zoom mode with a max stable resolution of 2520x1080 (3.33x crop from full frame), this is close to 16mm (rather than s16). However, it isn't possible to shoot this resolution with regular h.264 video. 

 

 

6

Thanks for a swift reply!
So helpful and such a nice video with the synth music.
Can you tell me about the handling and experience with the lens? i.e. is it extremely big and bulky?
What mount is it? did you said it was a leica R mount?

And will the back part of the lens make it unusable?


thanks again!!!

 

https://www.foto-markt.de/bilder/2017/June/9ieli1a-DSC_0004.JPG

It just seems impossible to mount.... isn't it?

[Alpicat]

@youshouldtry11 The lens is pretty small, but heavy as it's metal - feels front heavy on the eos m. It's a c-mount lens -I think this is the adapter that works best to make it work parfocally, though haven't personally tried it: https://fotodioxpro.com/products/c-eosm   

Don't know what mount the lens in your photo has - it doesn't look like it has any mount at all, maybe it was unscrewed or removed, or it's a custom built one?

[youshouldtry11]

9 hours ago, Alpicat said:

@youshouldtry11 The lens is pretty small, but heavy as it's metal - feels front heavy on the eos m. It's a c-mount lens -I think this is the adapter that works best to make it work parfocally, though haven't personally tried it: https://fotodioxpro.com/products/c-eosm   

Don't know what mount the lens in your photo has - it doesn't look like it has any mount at all, maybe it was unscrewed or removed, or it's a custom built one?

can you take a photo of your lens back? I want to compare it
....


isn't this a c mount?

[Alpicat]

@youshouldtry11 c-mount is a screw thread type mount and I don't see any screw here. I'm unsure what makes you think the above is c-mount, to me it looks like it doesn't have a mount - perhaps it's been physically removed. I sold my schneider lens last month as I wasn't using it, however below are some photos of it with c-mount:

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images3/1/0915/23/schneider-kreuznach-optivaron-66mm-1_1_ba20e52d51029e2677ec30cad36cabc4.jpg

https://www.picclickimg.com/d/w1600/pict/263721207841_/Schneider-Kreuznach-Beaulieu-Optivaron-18-6-66-C-Mount-Zoom.jpg

[youshouldtry11]

thankyou very much! I will post my results here soon

[tupp]

On 8/7/2018 at 1:20 AM, youshouldtry11 said:

(I won't shoot RAW video as it seems relatively unstable)

I don't think that this is true in all raw modes on the EOSM.  My understanding is that raw on the EOSM in the lower res crop modes (which you seem to seek) is stable and can work without over-cranking the SD card.

 

Perhaps @Alpicat could enlighten us further on this matter. 

 

 

13 hours ago, youshouldtry11 said:

isn't this a c mount?

 

It looks like a very clean cameflex mount with the end flanges removed.  Here is such a mount with the end flanges:

 

 

Here is the cameflex mount with no end flanges, but with a PL flanges:

 

 

Here is is a cameflex-to-Emount adapter:

[Alpicat]

@tupp @youshouldtry11  thanks for this, had never heard of the cameflex mount!

Shooting in raw is stable even with the SD overclock hack - I rarely had problems with corrupt footage, unless it's an extremely experimental build. The only issue with the SD hack is activating it, which can be a bit risky, but after activation, the camera is fine to use as normal.

If you want to avoid the SD card hack and want to use s8 or s16 lenses, just download the latest 4k lossless experimental build from the magic lantern website, select "movie crop mode" in 10 or 12 bit lossless raw up to 1800x1030 resolution (4.66x crop). That mode is nice to use as it gives you a properly framed liveview, and should give you fairly continuous recording times.  Of course you can also select lower resolutions whilst in movie crop mode if you want a bigger crop or a different aspect ratio. 

 

[youshouldtry11]

On 8/12/2018 at 5:05 PM, Alpicat said:

@tupp @youshouldtry11  thanks for this, had never heard of the cameflex mount!

Shooting in raw is stable even with the SD overclock hack - I rarely had problems with corrupt footage, unless it's an extremely experimental build. The only issue with the SD hack is activating it, which can be a bit risky, but after activation, the camera is fine to use as normal.

If you want to avoid the SD card hack and want to use s8 or s16 lenses, just download the latest 4k lossless experimental build from the magic lantern website, select "movie crop mode" in 10 or 12 bit lossless raw up to 1800x1030 resolution (4.66x crop). That mode is nice to use as it gives you a properly framed liveview, and should give you fairly continuous recording times.  Of course you can also select lower resolutions whilst in movie crop mode if you want a bigger crop or a different aspect ratio. 

 

Sounds great! Will definitly try it!

However, i do want to mention that movie crop mode has to be activated everytime upon turning the camera on... 

Does anyonw know the fix to this?

[PannySVHS]

Bump for one of my favorite threads! Bump, bump, bumpodito!

Let´s keep those super8 raw films rolling! I can only offer some DX1 and XL1 3CCD magic:

 

[youshouldtry11]

On 8/12/2018 at 5:05 PM, Alpicat said:

@tupp @youshouldtry11  thanks for this, had never heard of the cameflex mount!

Shooting in raw is stable even with the SD overclock hack - I rarely had problems with corrupt footage, unless it's an extremely experimental build. The only issue with the SD hack is activating it, which can be a bit risky, but after activation, the camera is fine to use as normal.

If you want to avoid the SD card hack and want to use s8 or s16 lenses, just download the latest 4k lossless experimental build from the magic lantern website, select "movie crop mode" in 10 or 12 bit lossless raw up to 1800x1030 resolution (4.66x crop). That mode is nice to use as it gives you a properly framed liveview, and should give you fairly continuous recording times.  Of course you can also select lower resolutions whilst in movie crop mode if you want a bigger crop or a different aspect ratio. 

 

The lens finally came by, doesnt seems to be parfocal (adapter seems great), but there is a knob behind the aperture ring where you can adjust the glass elements... Tried different positions but it just doesnt seems to work as a parfocal ...

[tupp]

On 10/3/2018 at 1:10 AM, youshouldtry11 said:

The lens finally came by, doesnt seems to be parfocal (adapter seems great), but there is a knob behind the aperture ring where you can adjust the glass elements... Tried different positions but it just doesnt seems to work as a parfocal ...

Might need to be shimmed for parfocal.  Which lens and adapter did you get?

[Matt James Smith ?]

I’ve been messing once again with using my EOSM as a Digital Super 8 camera and I’m pretty happy with the results. 

For the video below I used the following setup.

6mm f/1.2 Pentax TV lens (paper shim between lens and C mount-EOSM adapter, for infinity focus)
Tiffen Digital Diffusion 5 filter (reduces moire artefacts)
EOSM with latest ML build
18fps override (exact)
5x zoom
12bit lossless RAW
4:3 aspect
1440 x 1080 

i just used the aperture ring for exposure, rather than ND, as it seemed more authentically consumer Super 8.

This video has effects applied - FilmConvert’s Super 8 grain; FCPX native “aged film” effect applied very sparingly for jitter and a little dust; a telecine’d Super 8 black frame (keyed over footage). If there is interest, I can post the ungraded footage.
 

 

[tupp]

@Matt James Smith

 

Very nice!  I think you've nailed the Super 8 look.  The rolling shutter jitter when the camera shakes at the end is the only thing that hints the footage might be digital.

 

Nice job!  Thanks for sharing the video and the settings!

[PannySVHS]

bump for my one of my favorite threads:) bumpidoobidoo

[youshouldtry11]

@Matt James Smith
simply amazing!

[youshouldtry11]

On 10/10/2018 at 7:16 PM, Matt James Smith ? said:

I’ve been messing once again with using my EOSM as a Digital Super 8 camera and I’m pretty happy with the results. 

For the video below I used the following setup.

6mm f/1.2 Pentax TV lens (paper shim between lens and C mount-EOSM adapter, for infinity focus)
Tiffen Digital Diffusion 5 filter (reduces moire artefacts)
EOSM with latest ML build
18fps override (exact)
5x zoom
12bit lossless RAW
4:3 aspect
1440 x 1080 

i just used the aperture ring for exposure, rather than ND, as it seemed more authentically consumer Super 8.

This video has effects applied - FilmConvert’s Super 8 grain; FCPX native “aged film” effect applied very sparingly for jitter and a little dust; a telecine’d Super 8 black frame (keyed over footage). If there is interest, I can post the ungraded footage.
 

by the way, how did you get 1440 x 1080 resolution?
as there is only 1280x960 4:3 or 1600x1032 in 4:3 aspect but it actually is 1.55:1

sorry im a bit confused

4

 

[Alpicat]

At long last I've received the Viltrox speed booster for my EOS M, which means it's now a full frame raw video camera! Seems to work nicely so far, here's my first footage using the whole sensor area. Sorry I keep doing videos of the same thing, hopefully one day I'll do a more interesting video:

 Youtube description:

First test using the Viltrox Speedbooster with Magic Lantern raw video on my Canon EOS M. Resolution is 1736x1042 (14-bit lossless raw) in 3x3 mv1080p mode, using the full sensor area. The Viltrox speed booster provides 0.71x magnification which makes the EOS M camera practically full frame (1.14x crop compared to 35mm full frame).

As always, youtube compression makes the footage look mushy compared to what I exported from davinci resolve. The Viltrox seems sharp enough for video, although it doesn't perform so well in the corners for photography, which may bother some people. I used a Tamron adaptall 35-70mm f3.5 for this video. I didn't use the SD US overclock card hack as at this resolution you usually get decent recording times without the hack. Also I forgot to remove the focus pixels on mlvapp. Sorry for the shaky video, this was a very quick test! 

[Nikkor]

@Alpicat

there is some interesting stuff Happening in the magic kantern eos m Thread, if I got. it right they found the 1x3 Mode, which gives 5dmkiii type binning, I don't have the time to get it, maybe you do and come back and Tell us