Is the EOS-M *THE* Digital Super-8 Camera?

[Yurolov]

these videos look so filmic - swoon. I'm gonna get one and try it. Lens recommendations? 

[Alpicat]

19 hours ago, byuri734 said:

Hi folks... which adapter are you using for the Super 8 lens? I noticed that the Schneider 6-66mm in the fotasy adapter screws too much, passing the optimal point. I cannot get constant focus through the zoom range, specially towards the wide end with a 1.8 aperture. Did you notice this problem with your adapters or did you find a solution? I had read the the schneider-beaulieu lens did not have exactly the standard c-mount flange distance, because of the internal filter of the super 8 lens: it seems to be true.

I got my adapter from China, so it took a while to arrive, but seems to be out of stock now: https://www.miniinthebox.com/black-c-mount-cine-movie-lens-to-canon-eos-m-camera-lens-adapter-ring-cctv-lens_p927184.html

The one they ended up sending me looks slightly different to the one in the photo. When I screw on the Schneider 6-66mm onto it, it aligns correctly - the internal horizontal plastic parts covering the top and bottom of the glass align horizontally, thus minimising the vignetting. I have another c-mount adapter where these internal plastic parts end up at an angle or near vertical when the lens is screwed in fully, causing a lot of vignetting. I'd recommend buying a couple of different adapters on ebay and hopefully one will work - all these adapters seem to vary so much! 

In any case I haven't been able to get completely parfocal performance on the Schneider zoom, the focus does seem to drift slightly at the wider end at open aperture as you mention - your theory about the flange distance being non-standard would definitely explain things. It would be nice to be able to do a back focus adjustment on this lens to fix that!

[cantsin]

For the Schneider 6-66, I use a Novoflex Leica M-to-EOS M adapter. It's expensive, but worth the price because of its exact fit and precision measurement.

[cantsin]

Made a test with the Angenieux 98-64mm/1.9 c-mount, just by taking stills, opening them in a graphics program and cropping the center 1408x1030 pixels. The lens definitely covers this resolution/sensor crop at different zoom and aperture settings. Corners look good, too.

[byuri734]

Thank you very much, folks! Probably the M mount version of the Schneider is more precise too but those leicinas sell for a great prize. It is great to hear that the Angenieux has a good cover though. I will try to get one soon.

I will try to get a new adapter as well. I am also thinking about trying some brushes between the lens and the adapter to see if I get the lens to screw less.

[Yurolov]

Is there any way I can use my pl mount s16 super speeds on the cam? Any recommendations?

[Alpicat]

1 hour ago, Yurolov said:

Is there any way I can use my pl mount s16 super speeds on the cam? Any recommendations?

There is a PL mount to EOS M adapter, but it's from MTF so it's expensive: https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/pl-mount-to-canon-eos-m-mtf-camera-adaptor-9290-p.asp  I don't know if there are cheaper alternatives. 

Funnily enough I was talking to the MTF guys at BVE expo yesterday asking them if they had an EOS M to M4/3 adapter! It would be great to use Micro 4/3 lenses or a BMPCC speed booster on the EOS M. Unfortunately no such adapter exists. 

On 01/03/2018 at 4:40 AM, byuri734 said:

I will try to get a new adapter as well. I am also thinking about trying some brushes between the lens and the adapter to see if I get the lens to screw less.

For my Pentax 6mm f1.2 prime c-mount tv lens, I've just cut out a piece of paper and am using that as a shim (making the lens screw in less), which makes it slightly more usable. Without that, infinity focus and the lens distance markings are completely off with all my adapters. 

On 01/03/2018 at 1:08 AM, cantsin said:

Made a test with the Angenieux 98-64mm/1.9 c-mount, just by taking stills, opening them in a graphics program and cropping the center 1408x1030 pixels. The lens definitely covers this resolution/sensor crop at different zoom and aperture settings.

Thanks so much for testing this - good to know and may consider this lens in future if I have money! I don't imagine it would cover a 16:9 crop frame on the EOS M (which is approx 1800x1024) since that's a fair amount more than super 8 size, but if you're able to check at some point that would be useful.

 

[cantsin]

4 hours ago, Alpicat said:

Thanks so much for testing this - good to know and may consider this lens in future if I have money! I don't imagine it would cover a 16:9 crop frame on the EOS M (which is approx 1800x1024) since that's a fair amount more than super 8 size, but if you're able to check at some point that would be useful.

 

Fortunately, I hadn't erased my test picture yet. So to answer your question, the Angenieux 8-64/f1.9 covers 1800x1024 only with dark corners (see below).

- A reason for the larger image circle coverage of that lens could be that it may have been designed for Pathe's 9.5mm film format (that was a popular amateur film format in France). But I'm speculating here.
 

[Alpicat]

That's not bad! Wouldn't take much of a crop to get rid of the vignetting, though obviously going for a 4:3 ratio is the best option here. 

[Yurolov]

8 hours ago, Alpicat said:

There is a PL mount to EOS M adapter, but it's from MTF so it's expensive: https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/pl-mount-to-canon-eos-m-mtf-camera-adaptor-9290-p.asp  I don't know if there are cheaper alternatives. 

Do you know how would I go with the image circle on s16 lenses? 

[byuri734]

I just got a Fotodiox adapter. Much better. I still think the the lens screw a little bit too much, but you get a good parfocal performance with the 6-66mm, not perfect though. But the lens stays upside-down! Also, the fotodiox does not work with my Schneider CCTV 12.5-75mm. Thus, I have to keep the older adapter for that lens. It is crazy how those c mount adapters are all over the place! I am glad humanity invented the bayonet mount!

[Alpicat]

On 02/03/2018 at 9:57 PM, Yurolov said:

Do you know how would I go with the image circle on s16 lenses? 

Crop mode on the eos m has a area which is slightly larger than super 8mm, it's somewhere between 1/2" and 1/1.7" sensor size, depending on which resolution and aspect ratio you pick, so super 16 lenses would be fine on the eos m. For example, 1800x1024 resolution on eos m is a 4.66x crop from full frame, whilst super 16 is approx 3x crop.

On 02/03/2018 at 11:43 PM, byuri734 said:

I just got a Fotodiox adapter. Much better. I still think the the lens screw a little bit too much, but you get a good parfocal performance with the 6-66mm, not perfect though. But the lens stays upside-down! Also, the fotodiox does not work with my Schneider CCTV 12.5-75mm. Thus, I have to keep the older adapter for that lens. It is crazy how those c mount adapters are all over the place! I am glad humanity invented the bayonet mount!

One of my no-brand adapters seems like your Fotodiox one, where the 6-66mm ends up exactly upside down. With this particular adapter I've been able to get closest to parfocal performance, so it's probably the best option for this lens.

I made a video to test parfocal performance and vignetting in 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratios, using this adapter. Movie crop mode records slightly off centre horizontally, so if you want 4:3 aspect ratio and are getting vignetting - you have to recentre the image in post... which I've done below in the 4:3 shots: 

 

[byuri734]

Hello, folks. Is it possible to have the auto white balance working with ML RAW? I am using the MLV App (mac) to convert the files to ProRes 444 and I see it can read the white balance information from the raw files. It would be great to be able to use the canon good auto white balance as a base for grading, etc. For now, I am just using it as super 8 film. 3200k internal, 5500k external.

[Alpicat]

On 07/03/2018 at 7:36 PM, byuri734 said:

Hello, folks. Is it possible to have the auto white balance working with ML RAW? I am using the MLV App (mac) to convert the files to ProRes 444 and I see it can read the white balance information from the raw files. It would be great to be able to use the canon good auto white balance as a base for grading, etc. For now, I am just using it as super 8 film. 3200k internal, 5500k external.

Yes that's an issue with the MLV App. I hadn't noticed till recently. I export to cdng so it can be corrected in Resolve, but would still be nice to get the right colour temperature from the start. Hope they can find a way to fix this.

Here's another video I shot for my music with the EOS M whilst travelling to BVE expo: 12 bit lossless raw, crop mode at 1800x1024, using the EF-M 15-45mm and a Pentax 6mm f1.2 c-mount lens which vignettes slightly:

 

 

 

 

[byuri734]

Great video, @Alpicat. Thanks! However, I am not sure if I explained myself clearly. I want to be able to get the auto white balance on camera to work. I cannot set my eos m to AWB with magic lantern. With magic lantern installed, I have to choose the white balance manually putting the value in kelvins. Is there a way to get the AWB with magic lantern to work in camera? 

[tupp]

On 3/2/2018 at 5:29 AM, Alpicat said:

On 3/2/2018 at 4:07 AM, Yurolov said:

Is there any way I can use my pl mount s16 super speeds on the cam? Any recommendations?

There is a PL mount to EOS M adapter, but it's from MTF so it's expensive: https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/pl-mount-to-canon-eos-m-mtf-camera-adaptor-9290-p.asp  I don't know if there are cheaper alternatives. 

There are PL to EF-M tilt adapters for US$195.  I seem to recall non-tilt versions selling for a little over US$100, but I can't find them anymore.

 

Another option is to get a PL to EF adapter for ~US$100 and merely attach that to a dummy EF to EF-M adapter (US$9).

 

 

On 3/2/2018 at 5:29 AM, Alpicat said:

Funnily enough I was talking to the MTF guys at BVE expo yesterday asking them if they had an EOS M to M4/3 adapter! It would be great to use Micro 4/3 lenses or a BMPCC speed booster on the EOS M. Unfortunately no such adapter exists. 

The flange focal distance for M4/3 is 19.25mm while the flange focal distance for EF-M is 18mm.  So, it should be possible to drill matching holes in a M4/3 mount to match the screws on the EF-M mount and shim the mount ~1.25mm further out.

 

Of course, making the locking pin work is another consideration.  Also, safe clearance for the EOSM's EF-M electronic contacts should be considered, to prevent damage.

[Alpicat]

22 hours ago, byuri734 said:

Great video, @Alpicat. Thanks! However, I am not sure if I explained myself clearly. I want to be able to get the auto white balance on camera to work. I cannot set my eos m to AWB with magic lantern. With magic lantern installed, I have to choose the white balance manually putting the value in kelvins. Is there a way to get the AWB with magic lantern to work in camera? 

That's weird, it seems to work for me. Even when the magic lantern overlay is on liveview, I just press the Q Set physical button and from there I tap on the screen to choose different colour balance presets, which include AWB. I always leave my camera on AWB since it works very well.

20 hours ago, tupp said:

The flange focal distance for M4/3 is 19.25mm while the flange focal distance for EF-M is 18mm.  So, it should be possible to drill matching holes in a M4/3 mount to match the screws on the EF-M mount and shim the mount ~1.25mm further out.

Very true. I've also checked with Fotodiox as they already make a Sony E-mount to M4/3 adapter, as do various other manufacturers. The Sony mount is very similar to the EOS M mount with the same flange focal distance so should be easy to produce an adadpter for EOS M to m4/3, even if it lacks electronic contacts. Fotodiox said they'd talk to the design team and see if they can make such an adapter.  

[tupp]

46 minutes ago, Alpicat said:

I've also checked with Fotodiox as they already make a Sony E-mount to M4/3 adapter, as do various other manufacturers

Wow!  I had no idea that such adapters existed.  Thanks!

 

Here's the Fotodiox version, by the way.

 

 

47 minutes ago, Alpicat said:

The Sony mount is very similar to the EOS M mount with the same flange focal distance so should be easy to produce an adadpter for EOS M to m4/3, even if it lacks electronic contacts.

Indeed, both mounts have the same flange focal distance (18mm), plus the EF-M has a slightly wider throat diameter at 47mm, compared to the 46.1mm throat of the E-mount.  So, it should be a little easier to make a M4/3 adapter for the EOSM.

 

50 minutes ago, Alpicat said:

Fotodiox said they'd talk to the design team and see if they can make such an adapter.

Can you post your Fotodiox contact info?  I would like to "second" your proposal for such an adapter.

 

By the way, much of this thread involves shooting with a "Super-8m" crop on the EOSM.  I would like to enjoy the same HD resolution and raw benefits, but shoot with a Super-16 crop.  Would that be the equivalent of the 3x crop?  If so, can I shoot that crop on the EOSM with full HD, raw, 24p at 10-bit?

 

Thanks!

[byuri734]

19 hours ago, Alpicat said:

That's weird, it seems to work for me. Even when the magic lantern overlay is on liveview, I just press the Q Set physical button and from there I tap on the screen to choose different colour balance presets, which include AWB. I always leave my camera on AWB since it works very well.

 

I got it to work and now I have the AWB working in camera and the Mac's MLV App reads it properly. How do you deal with exposure, any tips? Especially, how do you set zebras, 90%, 80%, etc..

[Alpicat]

On 10/3/2018 at 8:38 PM, tupp said:

Can you post your Fotodiox contact info?  I would like to "second" your proposal for such an adapter.

I posted a comment on one of their youtube videos where they demonstrate the adapter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPseT8Ok3EA&lc=

 

On 10/3/2018 at 8:38 PM, tupp said:

By the way, much of this thread involves shooting with a "Super-8m" crop on the EOSM.  I would like to enjoy the same HD resolution and raw benefits, but shoot with a Super-16 crop.  Would that be the equivalent of the 3x crop?  If so, can I shoot that crop on the EOSM with full HD, raw, 24p at 10-bit?

I think the only way to get close to a 3x crop (which is approx Super 16 size) is to increase the horizontal resolution to 2.5k (using 5x zoom mode). However at that resolution you only get about 3 seconds record time, and the vertical res is limited to 1080. 

The resolution I like to use with movie crop mode (1800x1024) gives you 4.66x crop which is a bit larger than super 8. It's closer to 1/1.7", same as the Pentax Q-S1 sensor.

I actually emailed the metabones sales team last week about their plans to make a speed booster for the EOS M mount (since it would be useful for the Canon M50 too), and they say they plan to do it but can't provide further info at this stage. If they do make it, that would be one way of getting super 16mm field of view on the EOS M!

On 11/3/2018 at 2:55 PM, byuri734 said:

I got it to work and now I have the AWB working in camera and the Mac's MLV App reads it properly. How do you deal with exposure, any tips? Especially, how do you set zebras, 90%, 80%, etc..

Nice to hear MLV App reads the white balance properly for you. Did you change any settings in the program? On the PC version it always defaults to 6000k.

With exposure I have the zebras set to LumaFast, over 99% which I think is the default - apart from that I judge exposure by eye. As long as I'm not blowing out highlights with this zebra setting, the image seems fine. In the Destination Docklands video I posted above, you can see instances of blown out highlights with harsh clipping where I shoot directly at the sun or backlit clouds (visible on the cover image). I could see the zebras in liveview when shooting that shot but it was impossible to avoid.