jonpais Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 50 minutes ago, mercer said: Great samples. And very good points, Jon. Although it should be mentioned that those videos were shot by professionals, with professional crews, using professional lenses, and professional level support gear, corrected and graded by a professional colorists, with a professional production staff to put all of the elements together. Those guys, with their resources, would make a t2i look amazing. With that being said, the GH5 and GH5s are amazing cameras and would be for double the price. And I don’t see anyone arguing this with you. Thanks, @mercer , however, while the videos were indeed shot by professionals, they are very small budget productions with extremely minimal gear. The boxing video involved very little in the way of lights (though Dedolights are expensive!) and all Bernard Bertrand used to shoot the clip was a GH5s, a cage, a Titan arm, a Nocticron and an Inferno. Oh, and a cool light meter! I watched so many of his videos, so I get confused - he might also have shot with a 25mm. He graded the footage himself. Filippo Chiesa, as I pointed out a few pages earlier, also uses a modest setup - no gimbals, no sliders, no focus puller, and he is using very affordable lighting. You can learn more by reading the comments section over at Vimeo. He might have rented a smoke machine, it's hard to tell. His crew was minimal. As a matter of fact, the Fuji MK cine zooms rent for a mere $200/week, so not at all what I'd consider exorbitant. I paid nearly as much the other week to rent a studio out for just a few hours. And I'd argue that he could have just as easily used the budget Veydra lenses with equally good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 On 3/1/2018 at 11:42 AM, Sage said: I just saw this video; this thing is really impressing me right now. It apparently has a telephoto lens option. This might just be worth doing something for That video is sort of proof that 4k has Really narrowed the gap between cheap stuff, and Oh My God expensive stuff output wise. Sure the iPhone X doesn't have 16 stops of DR, but I certainly didn't see where it was lacking in that video, and you have to put yourself in the vast majority of peoples shoes, they have no clue what the hell DR even is LoL I have the X and it has just about every trick in the book, especially if you use the Filmic Pro App. It has more video stuff than my Note 8. Better specs, but I still sort of like the Note 8 output. It maybe the screen, and the screen size that has more to do with it on the 8 than being "Better". Either way both of my phones are capable of some unheard of output even 3 years ago. I would be damn proud of that video, to most people that is a winner. And what it was taken with just Wow when you think of it. And in your pocket all the time, just a miracle. Jonesy Jones and Sage 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 Shot this one and put a real gritty/grungy CG. Still shooting for max cinematic feel from this camera. Feedback welcomed. Lux Shots and Trek of Joy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Field of view comparisons and color science compared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronChicago Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I recently did a test with the GH5s + Speedbooster Ultra and Ursa Mini Pro (Super 35). They were nearly identical. Actually the GH5s might have been ever so slightly wider FOV. Lux Shots 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, AaronChicago said: I recently did a test with the GH5s + Speedbooster Ultra and Ursa Mini Pro (Super 35). They were nearly identical. Actually the GH5s might have been ever so slightly wider FOV. Aside from FOV, what about color, dynamic range and low light performance? Have you compared them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 On 3/18/2018 at 12:38 PM, jonpais said: All Bernard Bertrand used to shoot the clip was a GH5s, a cage, a Titan arm, a Nocticron and an Inferno. Oh, and a cool light meter! . I have no quarrel with the quality of the GH5 or GH5s. But if those videos were shot using the Shogun Inferno, then all of the internal compression (and maybe the noise reduction algorithms) of the camera are bypassed. Compression is the enemy of good quality video, so shooting in ProRes at its extraordinary high bitrate (and 10bit 422, of course) really makes a difference. Many cameras would look as good if one is using the Inferno. The Shogun is the video recorder, not the camera. This does not make the videos worthless for evaluating the GH5, but it should be considered in drawing any conclusions about the camera (of course, one of the good features of the GH5's is that they work well with the Infernos). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronChicago Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 hour ago, jonpais said: Aside from FOV, what about color, dynamic range and low light performance? Have you compared them? Not extensively. Low light on the GH5s I know would crush the UMP. I'm guessing color might be somewhat similar. DR range I'm sure is better on the UMP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estarkey7 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I really, really shouldn't have created a completely new topic for this, but I will once again re-post this link to straight out of camera GH5S night footage in V-Log and HLG for anyone choosing to test grade. The footage is very uninteresting, but it's cold as hell in Ohio right now! ISO values range from ISO-1250 to ISO 4000. In video 6 I said the ISO was 400, but it was 4000. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1BPHKWVRXA8ynNSQCCBaLuB9hZ4fxgpB8 On 3/15/2018 at 9:00 PM, Jonesy Jones said: The good news is that the cream always rises to the top. Like you I am surprised by the lack of fanfare for this camera. When I look up GH5s on Vimeo there are hardly any videos. I don't think they did a good job with the release and I don't think it should have been related to the GH5. They should have given it it's own name. People were bummed by the lack of IBIS and same AF performance. Maybe calling it an EVA mini would have been better. The image from this camera is gorgeous. Give it some time. Someone important will realize its value and the minions will follow. I hope. I got a script cooking right now just to have a platform to show this bad boy off! Just trying to get a budget in line before I move forward. I still have one miserable project that I ultimately need to finish. Even though I really screwed up in my second attempt at a longish short, it was 10x better than my first. I just need to shoot these last two scenes and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 8 hours ago, AaronChicago said: I recently did a test with the GH5s + Speedbooster Ultra and Ursa Mini Pro (Super 35). They were nearly identical. Actually the GH5s might have been ever so slightly wider FOV. It should be bigger than S35 with speedbooster theoretically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 That's what @AaronChicago said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Shots Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 8 hours ago, markr041 said: I have no quarrel with the quality of the GH5 or GH5s. But if those videos were shot using the Shogun Inferno, then all of the internal compression (and maybe the noise reduction algorithms) of the camera are bypassed. Compression is the enemy of good quality video, so shooting in ProRes at its extraordinary high bitrate (and 10bit 422, of course) really makes a difference. Many cameras would look as good if one is using the Inferno. The Shogun is the video recorder, not the camera. This does not make the videos worthless for evaluating the GH5, but it should be considered in drawing any conclusions about the camera (of course, one of the good features of the GH5's is that they work well with the Infernos). Well, the GH5 and GH5S can shoot 400Mbps ALL-I, so don't dump on them just yet. I posted a link to some footage and most of it is 400Mbps. So take a gander, give it a grade and report back! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Lux Shots said: Well, the GH5 and GH5S can shoot 400Mbps ALL-I, so don't dump on them just yet. I posted a link to some footage and most of it is 400Mbps. So take a gander, give it a grade and report back! ? For IQ alone, does an external recorder make that much difference. It is my understanding that aside from frame rate options, the difference is marginal at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, DBounce said: For IQ alone, does an external recorder make that much difference. It is my understanding that aside from frame rate options, the difference is marginal at best. It makes a big difference, because you are shooting at much higher bitrates and sometimes with more bit depth and color sampling - less compression, more bits. All intra 400 Mbps is not close to ProRes 422 HQ, which is 1900 Mbps. Compression artifacts include banding and macroblocking that all the pixel peepers here obsess on. Also, you are bypassing a lot of other internal transformations of the data, perhaps the aggressive noise reduction. Also the GH5 cameras shoot 4K 60P at 8bit 420, but externally 10bit 422. With less compression, more color sampling, and more bit depth, the external recording will be much superior. Now, sure, when viewed via YouTube, which is 8bit and highly compressed, the difference may indeed be marginal. But still, claims about camera performance should be based on the videos it records alone. By this argument, there is nothing the GH5 has over Sony cameras that shoot 422 8bit other than the highly subjective "color science." And with a tinier sensor and sub par AF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Shots Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 19 minutes ago, DBounce said: For IQ alone, does an external recorder make that much difference. It is my understanding that aside from frame rate options, the difference is marginal at best. If you really look at two scene shot both ways, the difference is very minimal, and you have to hunt for it. If you can shoot 24p and the client doesn't require ProRes deliverables, I'd skip renting the recorder, as it's than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I thought Prores HQ had a data rate of 734 Mbit/s, not 1900 Mbit/s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Shots Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, markr041 said: ...Also, you are bypassing a lot of other internal transformations of the data, perhaps the aggressive noise reduction. Also the GH5 cameras shoot 4K 60P at 8bit 420, but externally 10bit 422. With less compression, more color sampling, and more bit depth, the external recording will be much superior. ...But still, claims about camera performance should be based on the videos it records alone. By this argument, there is nothing the GH5 has over Sony cameras that shoot 422 8bit other than the highly subjective "color science." And with a tinier sensor and sub par AF. Have you actually shot with the GH5? If you grade your footage there is a ton to be gained from having 10-bit internal, no subjectiveness about it 2 minutes ago, jonpais said: I thought Prores HQ had a data rate of 734 Mbit/s, not 1900 Mbit/s. I believe he's talking about ProRes 4:4:4:4 12-bit. ProRes HQ 4K footage is just under 800 Mbps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Thanks, Lux Shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Go to page 21, and 22 to see the data rates. 8k is pretty damn scary LoL! https://images.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Apple_ProRes_White_Paper.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Go to page 21, and 22 to see the data rates. 8k is pretty damn scary LoL! https://images.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Apple_ProRes_White_Paper.pdf Yeah, for 3840 x 2160 24p, they say 707 Mb/s, not 1900. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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