GH5S Sample Footage and Reviews

[DBounce]

35 minutes ago, markr041 said:

It makes a big difference, because you are shooting at much higher bitrates and sometimes with more bit depth and color sampling - less compression, more bits. All intra 400 Mbps is not close to ProRes 422 HQ, which is 1900 Mbps. Compression artifacts include banding and macroblocking that all the pixel peepers here obsess on. Also, you are bypassing a lot of other internal transformations of the data, perhaps the aggressive noise reduction. Also the GH5 cameras shoot 4K 60P at 8bit 420, but externally 10bit 422. With less compression, more color sampling, and more bit depth, the external recording will be much superior.

Now, sure, when viewed via YouTube, which is 8bit and highly compressed, the difference may indeed be marginal. But still, claims about camera performance should be based on the videos it records alone. By this argument, there is nothing the GH5 has over Sony cameras that shoot 422 8bit other than the highly subjective "color science." And with a tinier sensor and sub par AF.

Youtube supports 10 bit. So do most high end smartphones. I my personal experience I see (note:  real  world... "SEE") little if any difference to justify the added bulk of an external recorder. Also the camera does not output 12 bit, so you are not going to be recording 12  bits worth of data, regardless of what you have your external recorder set to.

[webrunner5]

9 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Yeah, for 3840 x 2160 24p, they say 707 Mb/s, not 1900.

Well for 60p it jumps right up there though. Slo Mo Hell.

[DBounce]

34 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

Have you actually shot with the GH5? If you grade your footage there is a ton to be gained from having 10-bit internal, no subjectiveness about it

I believe he's talking about ProRes 4:4:4:4 12-bit. ProRes HQ 4K footage is just under 800 Mbps.

Well the camera only outputs 10-bit.  So...

[markr041]

1 hour ago, Lux Shots said:

Have you actually shot with the GH5? If you grade your footage there is a ton to be gained from having 10-bit internal, no subjectiveness about it

I believe he's talking about ProRes 4:4:4:4 12-bit. ProRes HQ 4K footage is just under 800 Mbps.

I am sorry you completely missed the point - of course 10bit matters a lot. But so does bitrate (and you do not have to shoot with a GH5 to understand or view that), and at 60P the GH5 shoots at 420 8bit internally (did you ever shoot 60P on the GH5?). So any 60P videos from the GH5 shot externally would give a completely misleading "picture" of what the GH5 does internally. And also for 10bit internal at the lower bitrates than external recorders can do.

And, no, that is not what I am talking about - it would be stupid to shoot in 444 12bit when the external output is 422 10bit. When you shoot 60P 4K Pro Res 422 (10bit) HQ the bitrate is 1900 Mbps on the Shogun Inferno - have you ever shot 4K DCI 60P in ProRes HQ? At 240P 2K the bitrate is 1600 Mbps - ever shot that?

[DBounce]

56 minutes ago, markr041 said:

By this argument, there is nothing the GH5 has over Sony cameras that shoot 422 8bit other than the highly subjective "color science." And with a tinier sensor and sub par AF.

Hahahahahahaha... LOL. I'll remember  this  every time I watch a video that shows the crap highlight rolloff (fall off) of those 8 bit Sony cameras. I have Sony, Canon and Panasonic  for video Panasonic is all around best. For stills Canon rules the  day. Sony is ok, but with no weather  sealing it's not really in the same league for serious use.

 

[markr041]

10 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Hahahahahahaha... LOL. I'll remember  this  every time I watch a video that shows the crap highlight rolloff (fall off) of those 8 bit Sony cameras. I have Sony, Canon and Panasonic  for video Panasonic is all around best. For stills Canon rules the  day. Sony is ok, but with no weather  sealing it's not really in the same league for serious use.

 

Oh come off it. It is rhetoric like this that degrade forums.  I have Panasonic and Sony cameras too. The limited DR of the Panasonics make them not for serious use. And highlight rolloff is a setting in Sony cameras, ever tried PP's and their settings? My point, ignored by you, is that external recorders even out the differences across cameras. But in fact one thing not evened out is sensor size, which is a clear deficiency of Panasonics. The world is heading to FF video, and that can make a much bigger difference in visual quality than 8bit vs 10 bit. But 10bit is better than 8bit, and high bitrates are better than low bitrates.

[Lux Shots]

19 minutes ago, markr041 said:

...and at 60P the GH5 shoots at 420 8bit internally (did you ever shoot 60P on the GH5?)...

When you shoot 60P 4K Pro Res 422 (10bit) HQ - have you ever shot 4K DCI 60P in ProRes HQ? 

Hmm, no I haven't shot 60P on the GH5, but I have on the GH5S ?!

Point taken about bitrate, I was quoting DCI 24p numbers.

[DBounce]

2 minutes ago, markr041 said:

Oh come off it. It is rhetoric like this that degrade forums.  I have Panasonic and Sony cameras too. The limited DR of the Panasonics make them not for serious use. And highlight rolloff is a setting in Sony cameras, ever tried PP's and their settings? My point, ignored by you, is that external recorders even out the differences across cameras. But in fact one thing not evened out is sensor size, which is a clear deficiency of Panasonics. The world is heading to FF video, and that can make a much bigger difference in visual quality than 8bit vs 10 bit.

The world is not heading to full frame... The world is heading to smartphones with sensors that are on average  about 1/2.5". DOF will be handled with tech similar to what Lytro has... which btw was purchased today by Google. 

[markr041]

4 minutes ago, DBounce said:

The world is not heading to full frame... The world is heading to smartphones with sensors that are on average  about 1/2.5". DOF will be handled with tech similar to what Lytro has... which btw was purchased today by Google. 

You are correct. By world, I meant the world that matters here - serious videographers.

[Lux Shots]

8 minutes ago, markr041 said:

You are correct. By world, I meant the world that matters here - serious videographers.

Videographers? You mean the ones using 2/3" sensor ENG cams? Okay, this response tells me all I need to know mate ?.

[markr041]

2 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

Videographers? You mean the ones using 2/3" sensor ENG cams? Okay, this response tells me all I need to know mate ?.

Here we go again. You want Pro DP's? cinematographers? Wedding videographers? Or just wannabees posting rude remarks on video forums? I think, by your posts, you need to know a lot more about a lot more than video.

[Lux Shots]

28 minutes ago, markr041 said:

 ...I have Panasonic and Sony cameras too. The limited DR of the Panasonics make them not for serious use. And highlight rolloff is a setting in Sony cameras..

And that's where the Dual Native ISO in the GH5S shines! Dynamic range is the maximum at the native ISO. By the time the Sony's get to ISO 2500, their DR has dropped from 14 stops to 12. That's slightly under the DR of the GH5S at the same ISO.

And Panasonic also has highlight roll off control curve, but you knew that already because you have Panasonic's too right? It does come in handy!

7 minutes ago, markr041 said:

Here we go again. You want Pro DP's? cinematographers? Wedding videographers? Or just wannabees posting rude remarks on video forums? I think, by your posts, you need to know a lot more about a lot more than video.

Mark, I'm not trying to be rude. But when you say videographer, I think ENG and I bet most everyone else does too. No matter your predictions, I doubt that'll happen. If so, why haven't they moved those cams up to at least m43 or APS-C by now? 

Discussions are one thing, heated debates are welcome, but insults will simply remove me from the conversation.

[markr041]

3 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

And that's where the Dual Native ISO in the GH5S shines! Dynamic range is the maximum at the native ISO. By the time the Sony's get to ISO 2500, their DR has dropped from 14 stops to 12. That's slightly under the DR of the GH5S at the same ISO.

And Panasonic also has highlight roll off control curve, but you knew that already because you have Panasonic's too right? It does come in handy!

I think the issue of the true DR of the GH5s compared to the Sony A7 iii is not as clear cut as you say. Highlight control is available on both Sony and Panasonic camcorders, so your overblown statement about rolloffs on Sony cameras indicates your ignorance of Sony cameras.

Look, this Sony vs Panasonic is just polluting this thread. My original point is that videos shot on external recorders can be misleading about internal video capabilities, and this relates to bit depth and bitrate. It is not a bash of any GH5 camera or a promotion of Sony or any other cameras. I do think m43 is doomed, but so what.

[Lux Shots]

36 minutes ago, markr041 said:

I think the issue of the true DR of the GH5s compared to the Sony A7 iii is not as clear cut as you say. Highlight control is available on both Sony and Panasonic camcorders, so your overblown statement about rolloffs on Sony cameras indicates your ignorance of Sony cameras.

I don't own or have used a video camera (camcorder, they still use that term?) from either company, so I'm not certain of any differences between them.

I don't recall making overblown statements about Sony. This thread is about the GH5S, which I own so felt I had valuable information that I could contribute. 

Nevertheless, you have distinct beliefs in my inability to offer any useful information. So for the well being of everyone, let's simply not interact on this forum in the future. ?

[webrunner5]

Well this statement is from the Atomos Flame, a recorder that was pretty much made to order for the Panasonic GH5. And using it does give you the option to have higher quality footage to edit than you can do internally. But you pretty much have to have a Apple computer to do it. ProRes does not like PC's.   And Avid is Crazy expensive to own.

"Recording 4K and high frame rate HD within the camera might seem enough but unless you record with the right codec you're restricting flexibility in post and even run the risk of having your footage technically rejected. Along with the high pixel density of 4K, the Ninja Flame records higher resolution 10-bit color information, more precise yet efficient 4:2:2 color encoding and to visually lossless, edit-ready codecs like Apple ProRes or AVID DNxHR."

[markr041]

1 hour ago, Lux Shots said:

By the time the Sony's get to ISO 2500, their DR has dropped from 14 stops to 12. That's slightly under the DR of the GH5S at the same ISO.

Sorry, I mistook you for DBounce, who posted an ignorant rant about Sony cameras, and that comment about "overblown" applies to his comment, although you seem to be a fan of his comments. You did make a comparison of DR with Sony cameras, which is not fully informed about Sony's latest offerings, so do not hide behind your only making useful comments about the GH5, or tell anyone who to "interact" with.

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

But you pretty much have to have a Apple computer to do it. ProRes does not like PC's. And Avid is Crazy expensive to own.

"Recording 4K and high frame rate HD within the camera might seem enough but unless you record with the right codec you're restricting flexibility in post and even run the risk of having your footage technically rejected. Along with the high pixel density of 4K, the Ninja Flame records higher resolution 10-bit color information, more precise yet efficient 4:2:2 color encoding and to visually lossless, edit-ready codecs like Apple ProRes or AVID DNxHR."

I use Windows computers and work with those high-bitrate ProRes files produced by the Atomos Shogun Inferno, and I have zero problems playing or editing them. They are in fact easier to decode than highly compressed files. I certainly agree with the quoted statement that encoding in high bitrate codecs like ProRes does give better results than any camera produces internally at high compression rates., even at the same bit depth.

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, Lux Shots said:

And that's where the Dual Native ISO in the GH5S shines! Dynamic range is the maximum at the native ISO. By the time the Sony's get to ISO 2500, their DR has dropped from 14 stops to 12. That's slightly under the DR of the GH5S at the same ISO.

I really doubt either camera even has 12 stops of DR at base ISO let alone 2500 ISO. In Raw Photo mode maybe, video nah. You have to be shooting Raw 12 bit, 14 bit stuff to get that high of DR. Even the 5D mk III in ML Raw is not getting 14 stops. BMPCC is 13 stops. GH5s Ain't got no 14 stops.

[Lux Shots]

44 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I really doubt either camera even has 12 stops of DR at base ISO let alone 2500 ISO. In Raw Photo mode maybe, video nah. You have to be shooting Raw 12 bit, 14 bit stuff to get that high of DR. Even the 5D mk III in ML Raw is not getting 14 stops. BMPCC is 13 stops. GH5s Ain't got no 14 stops.

Check out this post. It ain't even at the native ISO!!

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?359026-GH5s-dynamic-range-tests&highlight=gh5s+dynamic

[webrunner5]

26 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

Check out this post. It ain't even at the native ISO!!

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?359026-GH5s-dynamic-range-tests&highlight=gh5s+dynamic

Yeah but 10 to 12 stops is pretty damn good to be honest. A lot of older cameras are at 8 stops, 8.5 stops. You have to figure pretty much the finial output to Rec. 709 is going to Only be 7 stops!

If you go down to the bottom of the page it shows the DR of a lot of cameras. And Anything we can afford to buy is lucky to be 12 DR tops.

https://wolfcrow.com/blog/where-cameras-stand-in-dynamic-range-film-vs-digital/

[Julien416]

The arri D21 had 10 stops of DR in 2010. At the time everyone was drooling and saying how cinematic and filmic it was, how film was beaten, bla bla bla... It was a dream camera for a lot of us. 

The GH5s is supposed to have around 12 to 13 stops of DR.

So, to read that the GH5s isn't made for "serious use" because of its "limited DR" just puts a smile on my face. All these cameras - sony, fuji, panasonic, canon - are all extraordinary tools that few people could tell apart, even on this forum. Instead of calling people names because of brand fanatism, some of us should spent more time using them...