Emanuel Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 17 minutes ago, Kisaha said: @DaveAltizer Have run out of likes! But even if I hadn't, they wouldn't be enough for your rational judgement! Same here hehe @DaveAltizer Compelling insight man! : ) The best of my hats to you ; ) BTW once we are together in the same camera models vibe I guess, what about your input on GH5S vs X-H1? I'll be rather interested to hear from you towards it, especially with your surprising findings on both GH5 series' entries now. When? Any tip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, anonim said: No, I don't forget - that's because I wrote, and again, you are welcome. I mean, seriously - I'm really glad if you genuinely and sincerely loughs, no matter what/how you understand my word... or not. But calling in easily gruff manner someone's words crazy - I think that it doesn't fit to you. We have some experts in it here, but please, don't include yourself in such team. You say funny thing,s I guess I will also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 35 minutes ago, Kisaha said: ...and the fact that people got lazy, and people with GH5 rarely use tripods/monopods/cranes/gimbals anymore; and I am talking about professionals. Not always I find some wonderful location for my shots. Central Botanical Garden in my town and its witching, vast glass greenhouses - friend of mine is PR there, she will help me, but I have to shoot unnoticed with my children and hero actors crew, or I have to pay Garden's manager rent for using the space There's no chance I'll make it without ibis - even base gimbal called me professional instead of tourist... so GH5 is irreplaceable workhorse ... I wish I could afford or now justify GH5s also, maybe later, or maybe we will seen back of ibis sooner. But I'm playing with downloaded clips. As it seems to me, it is not at all hard task to highly match both cameras - in fact, it is, or it has to be marketing goal of Panasonic team. Some differences in accentuated color cast, sometimes better looking rollofs OOC from GH5s, or more detailed downsampled image from GH5. Yes, new sensor obviously has some brilliant mellow balancing ingredient, but images are in PP pretty achievable close, thanks to 10bit log flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 @anonim of course, every tool for the job. I wish there was a camera, offering EVERYTHING! but it isn't possible (and probably will never be, perfection does not exist in human creations, because we are not perfect either!). For the kind of job I do, IBIS is not a deal breaker, I mean, it wasn't for so many decades, can't suddenly become a huge problem in 18 months that cameras have IBIS, but what I said is true. I see people been lazy carrying tripods out of the car, because "it has IBIS, do not worry". A worked with a director before Christmas (and one of the older generation here), and he was complaining because I was using a tripod, he would prefer to do the shots, however, but immediately. For the same job though, at some interiors inside a car, the IBIS was very helpful, but I wanted my tripod shots, on a tripod! Funny thing, since then they didn't call me again for work! P.S haha I doubt the problem was my "tripod mania", there are already 2 cameramen and 2 sound men working there already! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 @Kisaha I had to admit that so long I envied Olympus to have ibis with for manual lenses... because of added range of freedom to play, to lay down to the ground and shot, to jump at shot, to dance and shot... just as expressionist's painting... what so much enjoy me is the side of some life-wise lesson: that you have to have some "obligation to be relax" for suggestive using of such technique... That said, I'm also quite aware of that what Dave complained about unpredictable jumpiness of ibis Nice to have option as GH5s and, above all, its direction of color science evolving. (Although, frankly, I don't know where it could progress more.) Now, we have mimic Vermeer out of camera - but low light Rembrandt, in spite all marketing persuasion, I'd say, yet not Regarding to freedom in using camera, I've learned (at least I hope so!) so much from Matty Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Yikes, too many cuts for my liking. But I like his grading.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Actually, the point of my lines was freedom in using free movement with camera, concerning dilema ibis-no ibis. About the others - in fact, it is not at all my kind of preferable style. Nor even the grading per se - but it was, obviously, some highly stylized goal, trying to match dynamic music of old Schubert with modern music video approach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I thought it might be interesting to upload here for the sake of comparing GH5/GH5s in real world cinematic shooting situation - so, an short movie and its brief behind the scene, GH5 + Voigtlander 17.5mm. (Maybe not to rush with GH5s.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 41 minutes ago, anonim said: I thought it might be interesting to upload here for the sake of comparing GH5/GH5s in real world cinematic shooting situation - so, an short movie and its brief behind the scene, GH5 + Voigtlander 17.5mm. (Maybe not to rush with GH5s.) It feels more made for TV than cinematic to me. I have both of these cameras, and I can tell you the GH5S hits a lot closer to the mark for "cinematic". But that said, there are other things in how this is shot, that help to keep it more "TV" than "Cinema" feeling. I think you just made the case for getting the GH5S for anyone that was on the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 @DBounce Thanks for the comment - actually I wrote "cinematic shooting situation", not determining genre or character of shots (i. e. author defined it as short movie). Out of discussion what is "cinematic" (after all, I think that notion needs little bit of subjective clarification), I think that this example is very well done and nice showcase of GH5+Voigtlander combo potentials. Idea was just to present some low light environments and capabilities out of usually marketed extremely high iso values, rarely used in similar production. For myself, I'd so gladly buy GH5s... as I wrote earlier, some clips with non-panasonic lenses are, for my taste, affordable pinnacle of neutral, non intrusive, natural color/detail balance. But not at all in iso values higher than 3200 - judging from so far presented clips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkabi Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 2/27/2018 at 11:55 AM, DaveAltizer said: Sorry man, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing. And, again... I'm sorry... but I have to use your own images against you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 33 minutes ago, mkabi said: Sorry man, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing. And, again... I'm sorry... but I have to use your images against you @mkabi You're seeing DOF and golden hour lighting (first image) and the BPM filter. That's it. Add those to the GH5S and you are pretty much there. But in post you have a 10 bit image to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Aren't these 3 images given in pretty low resolution for any comparatively fair comment? As such low-res, I see slight green or blue-veil cast in all of them and probably some sort of artistically added haze in second - indeed tender with chosen DOF angle and shadows under the girl's eyes to complete coming up of fragile face. Love this composition and its rich but mellow gamma. In full resolution it must be gorgeously 3dimensional. Dave Altizer's sample with singer has, as I see, pretty cold graded tone, clean with unobtrusive but present details and absence of predominant veil. I like how - in globally low saturated context and not so deep focus - that lovely distinctive nuances of white color of shirt discreetly help in leading attention to subject. Fine base, expected from modern 2000+$ camera, of course could be also and different variations of look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, mkabi said: Sorry man, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing. And, again... I'm sorry... but I have to use your own images against you The color science is improved; though the two cameras may safely be considered independent of color science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 21 minutes ago, Sage said: The color science is improved; though the two cameras may safely be considered independent of color science I'm not sure and am lazy to check - but @Sage is creator of GH-Alexa lut? Several topic above, I mentioned the same, quoting exactly this lut as obviously great help in tweaking. Kieza's shot of little Oriental girl and upper example of walking/talking woman fully enchanted me - but, playing with same clips from both camera, I've found that daylight color wise result of GH5s is not at all unassailable to that comparative of GH5. -Actually, if obviously worse roll-offs GH5 can be tweaked as showed in GHAlexa lut site, resulted images are near identical - and give to me time to collect money and maybe buy GH5s... (But I must admit that effect of provided intervention on singer I, owing to my taste, don't like - image suddenly looks flattened to me ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkabi Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 hours ago, DBounce said: @mkabi You're seeing DOF and golden hour lighting (first image) and the BPM filter. That's it. Add those to the GH5S and you are pretty much there. But in post you have a 10 bit image to work with. How about we work backwards then.... I have neither the 1dx mark 2 nor the gh5S; my friend did have the 1dc for a while but he gave it up. Technically, Im not supposed to have a bias, but I do favor the 1dx mark 2 as I am interested in one (though, I have a feeling that it's going to be a nightmare working with those huge MJPEG files) with that said... I want someone to convince me to side with the GH5S as Im fed up with anything Canon. Everyone is convinced with the malleability of those 10 bit files. But, as much as I am concerned color has nothing to do with image quality (and that's just my opinion) To prove that... Or disprove that (cause, remember... I want you or someone to convince me to side with the GH5S)... Let's work backwards... i.e. let's remove the color space and compare the images in black & white. @DBounce since you have both cameras... You can do a side by side. Your mission (should you choose to accept it) *cue the MI or Bond music*?: - Do some black & white video from both cams make them as cinematic as possible (do it side by side) and let's compare them... -Add filters, speed booster, whatever you want to equalize the playing field. But, at the same time, because so many of us like to say that anything the high end camera can do.... The GH5 can do too.... Same as how those iPhone X to Red, etc. Get the most beautiful (most cinematic) shot in black and white from the 1dx mark 2 (get those f1.8-2.0 shots) and try to mimic that black and white with the GH5S (just for good measure and no excuses) Editted to add: @DBounce I've noticed that you are still getting to know your cameras and you are still trying to get that cinematic image from your cams but I don't want you to mess around too much from the accepted norm so.... Please set your cams to DCI 4K 24p.... Shutter speed to 1/50 ( closest to 1/48) in the 1dx mark 2 and shutter angle at 180d on the GH5S, bring the sharpness down to the lowest on both cams (should you choose to do it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, mkabi said: Get the most beautiful (most cinematic) shot in black and white from the 1dx mark 2 (get those f1.8-2.0 shots) and try to mimic that black and white with the GH5S (just for good measure and no excuses) I will be able to match them exactly ; ) I need both cameras in my possession - the GH5S is already accounted for. If someone with the 1Dx is willing to lend out their camera for a day or two, I will gladly do this mkabi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkabi Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 30 minutes ago, Sage said: I will be able to match them exactly ; ) I need both cameras in my possession - the GH5S is already accounted for. If someone with the 1Dx is willing to lend out their camera for a day or two, I will gladly do this For those that say that the iPhone X can do what the GH5S can do.... Do the same test as stated above. Only the opposite, get the best black and white image out of the GH5S and try to mimic those cinematic shots. If it's shown that the gh5S is as good or better than the 1DX2 and the iPhone X is as good or better than the GH5S... lol By mathematical induction - the iPhone X should be as good or better than the 1DX2 (if A=B and B=C then A=C) Hopefully, it will justify Soderbergh's next movie and we may only ever need an iPhone X ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, mkabi said: For those that say that the iPhone X can do what the GH5S can do.... Do the same test as stated above. Only the opposite, get the best black and white image out of the GH5S and try to mimic those cinematic shots. If it's shown that the gh5S is as good or better than the 1DX2 and the iPhone X is as good or better than the GH5S... lol By mathematical induction - the iPhone X should be as good or better than the 1DX2 (if A=B and B=C then A=C) My sister happens to have an iPhone X. I will do this - does anyone know if exposure can be locked down and incremented on the iPhone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkabi Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Sage said: My sister happens to have an iPhone X. I will do this - does anyone know if exposure can be locked down and incremented on the iPhone? There is a special app.... I think it's Filmic Pro. Film Riot uses it: There may be other apps??? But don't use the built in camera app... It's too basic. Sage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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