This guy is hilarious

[Andrew Reid]

I encourage you to follow his channel, some funny stuff on there, but informative.

Apple wanted to cancel the Mac Pro 2013.

Problem is they built an entire Texan factory to build it in. What to doooo?

Agonise over cancelling the failed computer for years, before deciding to finally continue the line (with last year's weird pre-announcement of the 2018 update, which will have a different concept).

Personally, I think the Mac Pro is the Canon 1D C of the computer world. Totally overpriced. Totally underrated.

Sure it may not have the performance of even a 2013 iMac in some ways... But the multicore performance, dual graphics in such a small case, zero fan noise and bullet proof reliability is pretty useful.

PC owners will say "yeah but for under $1000 you can get way better performance".

Ah but Windows is a totally depressing existence.

Hackintosh owners (I am one!) will say "yeah but you can just put Mac OS on high spec pc hardware" and that is true! But mine doesn't work with WiFi or Bluetooth. I have a wired mouse and keyboard attached to it and a LAN cable. The performance advantage in the real world with shitty Adobe software is not actually much more than my 2013 iMac.

The Mac Pro 2013 is £1800 now in the UK for the mid-spec 6 core Xeon / 2x D500 GPU

I say that solves a fundamental problem...

You can pair it with LG's DCI 4K P3 monitor. No 5K retina bullshit required.

It is not a 2017 iMac.

It is not £5000 like an iMac Pro (WTF!)

It isn't a windy fat slob PC with constant errors.

Problem solved!?

[Andrew Reid]

I can't understand why there was never a glass case for the Mac Pro

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/glass-mac-pro.1932037/

It had heat drawn out the top, so I doubt it needed the trash can metal as a heat sink?

It would have looked so damned sexy.

Here's a more positive take on the Mac Pro 2013... After 3 years

I think this guy makes the case for it well.

1. Reliable

2. Much cheaper now (used)

3. Not an iMac (can connect it to your non-glossy matte 4096 x 2160 LG monitor)

4. Not a Hackintosh

5. Not a £5000 iMac Pro (bleeeergh)

6. Upgradable...right down to the CPU.

Buh bye!

[webrunner5]

He has a computer that has lasted 3 years and he thinks that is some sort of record or something? That thing is damn near new. There are Tons of computer, Mac and PC that are still going 3 times as old. WTF. For what he paid for it it out to last until he is dead.

[OliKMIA]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

PC owners will say "yeah but for under $1000 you can get way better performance".

Ah but Windows is a totally depressing existence.

I'm not here to re-start the stupid Apple-PC war but what's wrong with Windows? I understand people want to use Mac but Windows is very stable now, never crash, everything is mostly plug n play nowadays. So easy.

[Inazuma]

Andrew is an apple fanboy confirmed

[Samin]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hackintosh owners (I am one!) will say "yeah but you can just put Mac OS on high spec pc hardware" and that is true! But mine doesn't work with WiFi or Bluetooth. I have a wired mouse and keyboard attached to it and a LAN cable. The performance advantage in the real world with shitty Adobe software is not actually much more than my 2013 iMac.

I'm Hackintosh owner as well. I bought apple's official wifi/blutooth card really cheap from eBay.

This is the card you should be looking for:
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/working-100-official-apple-bcm94360cd-with-pcie-adapter-from-mallaid-taobao.137070/

But I get the point if you are not looking for troubleshooting your hardware and software issues, you better off getting a real mac.

[Mattias Burling]

3 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

I'm not here to re-start the stupid Apple-PC war but what's wrong with Windows? I understand people want to use Mac but Windows is very stable now, never crash, everything is mostly plug n play nowadays. So easy.

This is not my experience.

After countless crashes the IT dept at my company caved and made an exception to the rule of PC only. They gave me a Mac and its just like home, zero crashes.. ever. 

iOS just handles image prossesing, video editing and heavy webb workflow better. And for the same amount of spec/dollar.

For some of the webb publishing I do the time efficiency in a side by side was 4h vs 20min on the Mac. For the same tasks.

[Inazuma]

Everyone has different experiences. I really disliked the Mac interface when I tried it years ago. Windows gives me no problems. 

[Andrew Reid]

5 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

I'm not here to re-start the stupid Apple-PC war but what's wrong with Windows? I understand people want to use Mac but Windows is very stable now, never crash, everything is mostly plug n play nowadays. So easy.

Matter of taste and personal choice. Just because someone has a strong preference for one system over the other doesn't make them a 'fan boy'.

There's a lot I like about Mac OS over Windows and all of it is to do with functionality, security, driverless plug & play, uninterrupted creative flow, aesthetics, app ecosystem, app exclusives like EditReady, codecs like ProRes, file encryption, Finder vs Explorer and a better user experience (for me) and nothing to do with the brand "Apple".

2 hours ago, Samin said:

I'm Hackintosh owner as well. I bought apple's official wifi/blutooth card really cheap from eBay.

This is the card you should be looking for:
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/working-100-official-apple-bcm94360cd-with-pcie-adapter-from-mallaid-taobao.137070/

But I get the point if you are not looking for troubleshooting your hardware and software issues, you better off getting a real mac.

Hackintosh is great, but even when you have every single aspect working fine, there's a lot of errors in the logs thats go unnoticed but do point to it not being just right, and updates could break things at any stage.

Mine has been rock solid, it's just the wirelesss stuff... At one point the WiFi was dropping out when I plugged things into USB! Since I'd rather be editing videos than installing custom KEXTs, I think going back to an official Mac would be a creative move.

With Windows 10, yes I know it has come a long way since 7 (shudder) but still the look of the UI makes me vomit. Not exactly easy on the eyes is it? And the control panel - holy crap - what a stinking mess. Two in one - an old one and a new one - the new one is practically useless - the old one is from 1995! WHY?! Why have two?!

[Samin]

27 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hackintosh is great, but even when you have every single aspect working fine, there's a lot of errors in the logs thats go unnoticed but do point to it not being just right, and updates could break things at any stage.

Mine has been rock solid, it's just the wirelesss stuff... At one point the WiFi was dropping out when I plugged things into USB! Since I'd rather be editing videos than installing custom KEXTs, I think going back to an official Mac would be a creative move.

With Windows 10, yes I know it has come a long way since 7 (shudder) but still the look of the UI makes me vomit. Not exactly easy on the eyes is it? And the control panel - holy crap - what a stinking mess. Two in one - an old one and a new one - the new one is practically useless - the old one is from 1995! WHY?! Why have two?!

3

Exactly I know what you mean, as I mentioned as well, when you go for Hackintosh you should accept the consequences of facing errors down the road, but luckily I'm a geek and developer so I kinda love to solve the issues. But even that has not stopped me to not to have a real Mac, so besides my beefy Hackintosh I have a MacBook Pro as well.

My issue with Windows is UI and Font rendering! Oh god, windows basically sucks with retina displays, even in Windows 10 (which I like the most among all other versions). I even prefer Linux over Windows. I'm not talking about performance aspect here, mostly representation of the OS.

[Andrew Reid]

I can understand the appeal of the problem solving, technical challenge, it's very satisfying, but sometimes you just need to work in Premiere, etc. and get stuff done. In those situations the last thing you want is for something to break.

Yes Windows scaling sucks for retina displays. Awful on my 4096 x 2160 cinema 4K LG display. Unusable. The aesthetics are all disjointed and cobbled together.

My Windows rig is now best off in my racing sim, set up next to a Playseat and occasional bit of VR gaming.

For creative stuff the Mac is much better suited.

[Axel]

As for serious CGI (he mentioned that in connection with Jurassic Parc asf.), you have to consider that in 2018 this still involves so-called render farms. Any traditional desktop machine won't cut it. These complexes are so expensive that you need exchangeable parts to keep them up to date. Compact size and design (Apples speciality) are not asked for. 

More and more, the GPUs do most of the job, preferably in realtime (we are on the verge of realtime already, see Blenders EEVEE), and it's paramount to be able to swap graphic cards AND motherboards with no restrictions by the hermetic OS or the undersized housings. 

Once you have successfully built a setup for the software you are working with, the operation system doesn't make a huge difference anymore.

I use an iMac because it's a simple all-in-one machine, not overpriced, if you count the parts and the time needed to frankenstein them together for a Hackintosh.

What I don't get is why anyone would want MacOS for Adobe, where this notoriously performs worse than on Windows 10 ...

 

[Andrew Reid]

Good job I am not doing CGI then!

Does the dual D500 get used in Resolve 14 (latest) or does only one do the rendering with the other one as display buffer?

[Grumble]

What's the model of the LG monitor you mentioned? 32UD99 ?

[Andrew Reid]

31MU97-B

http://4k.com/monitor/a-review-of-the-lg-electronics-ips-digital-cinema-31mu97-b-31-0-inch-screen-led-lit-monitor/

Very happy with it.

Not as glossy or reflective as 5K iMac screen.

[OliKMIA]

6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

This is not my experience. After countless crashes the IT dept at my company caved and made an exception to the rule of PC only. They gave me a Mac and its just like home, zero crashes.. ever. 

iOS just handles image prossesing, video editing and heavy webb workflow better. And for the same amount of spec/dollar.

For some of the webb publishing I do the time efficiency in a side by side was 4h vs 20min on the Mac. For the same tasks.

Different experience here with PC, everything is smooth on my custom built computer. But again, as long as you are happy with your Mac, that's good.

 

5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Matter of taste and personal choice. Just because someone has a strong preference for one system over the other doesn't make them a 'fan boy'.

There's a lot I like about Mac OS over Windows and all of it is to do with functionality, security, driverless plug & play, uninterrupted creative flow, aesthetics, app ecosystem, app exclusives like EditReady, codecs like ProRes, file encryption, Finder vs Explorer and a better user experience (for me) and nothing to do with the brand "Apple".

Yeah, nothing to do with "fan boy", I'm genuinely interested to understand why you prefer Mac. You made some valid points.

[Andrew Reid]

16 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

Different experience here with PC, everything is smooth on my custom built computer. But again, as long as you are happy with your Mac, that's good.

Yeah, nothing to do with "fan boy", I'm genuinely interested to understand why you prefer Mac. You made some valid points.

PC's can be smooth, fast, all that, I'm not denying it.

However security can be an issue. Lots of malicious PC-orientated stuff out there. Expert users will be more careful, install safeguards, etc. But Mac users - of all skill levels - don't even need to THINK about it. It just isn't a consideration. Keep it updated automatically, erm that's about it.

Little aesthetic things - there's more user interface and experience consistency across all visual elements of the Mac OS desktop, finder and apps you have open.

The Windows start menu is a piece of shit as is the control panel. So tacky. Makes me feel cheap inside. Look at the icons in Mac OS Launcher. Works of art. Look at the P3 5K display and the colour you get it on the latest iMacs. PC monitors are 90% plastic junk and look shit on the desk. Exceptions are exceptionally expensive yet you get aluminium 5K cinema P3 display practically for free on an iMac. It's these things that add up and make you feel like you are using something well engineered and well designed rather than just a work tool.

Drivers. Hate drivers. Mac so rarely needs them, unless it's an incredibly custom piece of equipment, again this is not even something Mac users think about. No need to tinker. No need to keep them updated manually or search the web. Windows can't even PRINT something without drivers having to be installed sometimes. And the constant updates... jesus christ.

Windows 10 feels like a more up-to-date facade on an old building. The structure feels like it is creaking. The 2 control panels situation is a mess. The boot screen is ugly as shit. The need to make it all work with infinite combinations of hardware involves fundamental compromises in long-term reliability and security. It can be "just working" and then one day it isn't.

Retina display scaling is atrocious in 4K. Fonts look like crap.

So that's why I do 99% of what I do on a Mac and leave my Windows rig as a Hackintosh with option to occasionally boot up in Windows 10 for gaming or VR.

Don't get me wrong - the hardware is super powerful. But then so is a Mac. People think they are simplistic, dumbed down and underpowered. It's not true and the power that is there is utilised better like a console. System OS is matched to the hardware 100%, whereas on a PC it is full of fallback legacy functionality and compatibility strands.

[Trek of Joy]

15 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

The Mac Pro 2013 is £1800 now in the UK for the mid-spec 6 core Xeon / 2x D500 GPU

I say that solves a fundamental problem...

You can pair it with LG's DCI 4K P3 monitor. No 5K retina bullshit required.

I had that exact machine. Sold it for a 2015 iMac.

After testing a 4ghz model with the 4gb video card and just 16gb ram - it was much faster than my MP and had a much, much nicer monitor. I sold the trashcan and bought a loaded late 2015 off craigslist for about half the price of new. My current machine has the 27" 4ghz i7, 32gb ram (easy upgrade from OWC, don't pay the apple tax for stock ram), 4gb video card and a 1tb flash drive.

The problem with the trashcan is the display lag and how it scales text and icons - the older video cards performance with 4k monitors is only so-so, and there are few supported monitors. 2013 was really the beginning of 4k display support, so performance isn't great. There are better monitors now, but the hardware is going to be a bottleneck - its just not great with a 4k monitor. I tried mine with a few different monitors and it consistently wouldn't see the monitor when waking from sleep or from startup if there was any sort of power outage (I live in Florida when not traveling, thunderstorms cause frequent power outages), so I had to plug an old 1080 monitor into the trashcan and open the monitor settings to re-establish the connection. Scaling text and icons was a constant struggle too, I had to keep changing sizes of everything when re-doing the connection to the 4k monitor because every time it made a new connection, it would revert back to the stock settings of impossibly small icons and text. It was a royal PITA to have to do this on a regular basis.

The late 2015 iMac update quietly added a wide gamut P3 monitor, its the sweet spot in the recent iMac lineup. You can find a fully loaded machine like the 4ghz model I bought for under $2000 US - some are selling in the $1700 range on ebay, and it'll wipe the floor with the trashcan. 

Just my 0.02

Chris

p.s. It was/is the quietest computer I've ever used though, how they achieved that much power without the crazy cooling PC towers use is amazing. Still, it wasn't enough for me to keep it.

[Andrew Reid]

Interesting to hear that.

The display compatibility issues are very worrying for me. Might have to go iMac 2017 route after all.

The i5 is quieter than i7 by the way, under load barely a whisper. The 2017 iMac i7 4.2 gets very hot.

On the GPU side, 2017 vs 2015.... New Radeon 580 Pro worth it as upgrade from 2015 model as it is newer chip and 8GB video RAM... Double the top spec 2015.

My late 2013 iMac still edits 4K smoothly though!! The old stuff is still good.

Will probably sell that and the Hackintosh and get the iMac 2017.

Mac Pro, the more you research into it, the more it could be a headache despite being really underrated as a trashcan

[fuzzynormal]

I'm not a fan of Windows at all.  I too "feel cheap inside" using it, definitely prefer to work in the OSX environment.  

Then again, to be fair, I've not had many crashes of Premiere on my PC.  FWIW, I keep my PC super clean software-wise.  Hardly anything else installed on it: pretty much the most minimal OS install I could manage, + hardware drivers, and then my Adobe apps.

Would certainly love to get back to Mac someday soon, but PC's are cheap and fast --and the modularity of that environment is nice.  OTOH, I'm fascinated by running Resolve on Linux.  Probably a stupid rabbit hole to crawl into, but still interesting.