NX2 rumors

[salim]

Interesting post today at Mirrorless Rumors. I actually don't believe Samsung is going to bring back their camera line back.  But the CPU numbers match the claimed speck. 
I would rate this as 5-10% plausible, but you never know with Samsung 

https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/good-true-high-end-samsung-aps-c-camera-based-exynos-9810-soc/

 

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-optimizes-premium-exynos-9-series-9810-for-ai-applications-and-richer-multimedia-content

www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/exynos/products/mobileprocessor/exynos-9-series-9810/

[Andrew Reid]

Lots of convincing detail in the rumors post. USB C with DisplayPort enabled for 4K video output is a good idea, for instance. The gyro shutter thing is interesting.

I have no idea if real or not but one thing that strikes me as strange is that the NX1 is was never based around one chip (like the Exynos) and instead had lots of different custom hardware, dealing with separate tasks, like AF tracking, video encoding, etc. So not sure if building a prototype around one chip even makes sense with NX1 architecture the way it is (or was).

Also to develop a brand new sensor for a prototype seems like an expensive thing to do if they have no intention on releasing it.

Would be amazing if Samsung made an NX2 as a tent-pole of some kind to say to the world - look what we can do in cameras, now buy our S9 for a taste of the same specs.

[Geoff CB]

Please be true..please be true.

[Damphousse]

Oh, brother.  They burned a lot of people with their last outing.  Expensive lenses that were obsoleted within a couple of years.  Who is going to want to build a system around yet another Samsung camera?

Maybe they should have some type of active m43 mount and a super 35 sensor.  At least that way we wouldn't be held hostage by a lens line that may evaporate at any moment.  Or an active version of some legacy mount so we can buy cheap lenses on ebay while we wait to see if they are going to kill off the system in two years.

[Andrew Reid]

Burned? Not sure about that mate. NX1 owners are a very satisfied bunch. I should know, I am one. And the 16-50mm F2 is the best S35 zoom I own.

Would do it all again in a heartbeat if they brought out another camera.

[DBounce]

I can tell you now, save for DR the NX1 was a great camera. It took me a little while to squeeze magic from it, but if you take time to understand you will be rewarded. If they make a NX2, I would like it to use a different lens system... Canon EF or MFT.  I think this will go a long way toward people feeling like they are not going to get burned when investing in new glass. 

There is no doubt in my mind that if Samsung is determined to make a great camera, they will produce one that is best of class. I will take 10 bit, oh hell, make it 12 bit, compressed raw, with the option for 10 bit internal also. Oh, and can we have a realtime HDR sensor? Throw in SDI outputs on the extended grip. Put me down for two!

Edit: I just read the proposed specs... Holly mother of god. Sounds amazing. Would love to see it happen.

[mkabi]

22 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Edit: I just read the proposed specs... Holly mother of god. Sounds amazing. Would love to see it happen.

Exactly!

If they do this.... everyone else can call it a wrap and head back to the drawing board.

In fact, they should do this... afterall... isn’t RED infiltrating the android cell phone market??

[ryne275]

doesn't the nx1/nx500 still provide a sharper image over gh5s?

[DBounce]

40 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Exactly!

If they do this.... everyone else can call it a wrap and head back to the drawing board.

In fact, they should do this... afterall... isn’t RED infiltrating the android cell phone market??

Samsung is the sleeping giant in the camera market. We all know if Samsung wanted to put a cinema grade sensor with HDR with great low light and battery life into the NX2, they are in a good position to do so. Much of that tech is already going into their smartphone sensors. But the smaller format requires many more compromises.

[sanveer]

 

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

I can tell you now, save for DR

I thought the Dynamic Range was substantially improved after the firmware update. 

I remember reading the Exynos 9810 specs to be a 24MP for Rear and Front Cameras (down from 28MP in the Exynos 8895). I am sure the exact camera specs can eadily be changed with a minor ISP refit. Also, everyone knows the Exynos 9810 can do both 10-bit video and high frame rate 4k.

If even 75% of this rumour is true, Samsung is going to be back in the race.

Like someone mentioned in 43rumors.com, Samsung should just buy out Nikon, and leverage that for a long term goal. 

[Kisaha]

@Damphousse dude! we are far from burned! most friends and professionals have changed 2-3 systems since 2014 in search of a better system, and I am confident in my equipment for at least a year or two! 16 and 20mgpxls were the sensor's technology back then, and for some even now, Super Amoled EVFs and touch screens were a luxury or a total miss, and for some even now, uncroped APS-C 4K/no overheating/H265 are still novelties (even latest A6500 does not comply). The first and truest pro APS-C mirrorless (until A9 and A7Riii). NX1 was a hybrid for the future (which is now!).

We tend to forget that products and companies are pushing the envelope. Back then, the GH4 was a big step forward, I have friends now saying the worst things about that camera, but they forget what were the other options, really. GH5, the same. NX1 was such a camera. We have to look at history when is happening, not of what we wish could have happened (history is my hobby!).

@Andrew Reid If anyone could do a prototype such this, then Samsung would be the one. The newer processor is so much powerful (eating Snapdragons for lunch and dinner!), and I am sure they would have optimized their older chips where it counted. They have unlimited resources and mobile phone cameras is one of the strongest selling point in that industry right now, and in the near future.

NX1 was made exclusively by Samsung, in house, and in most components (SAMOLEDs, touch interfaces, RAM, mobile processors and efficiency, data transfer etc) are the best in business, not just good.

[tyger11]

The problem then was - and still would be - the lens selection. Unless you go with adapted lenses, there were hardly any lenses that matched the quality of the camera itself. If they could do this with a different already-existing mount (E-mount, if they could get permission), or Sigma's mount, that would allay a lot of fears. Leaving the market so early was immense hubris, and if they want to try again, they're going to have to overcome that fear.

[Andrew Reid]

15 minutes ago, tyger11 said:

there were hardly any lenses that matched the quality of the camera itself

Yes absolutely agree @kisaha

Not even Sony could make all those components in-house... the OLED, Exynos, RAM and other custom semi-conductors.

[salim]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Lots of convincing detail in the rumors post.

The details is what gives it a small amount of plausibility. 

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Also to develop a brand new sensor for a prototype seems like an expensive thing to do if they have no intention on releasing it.

I  believe the new chip is for their next smart phone designed to go after, iphoneX, but reusing it for other product lines might just make sense.  
There are many factor involved: 
From one side, re-introducing their DSLR camera line makes no sense. Especially within the corporate politics. It's hard to tell your team why you need to close something and then have someone inside the team try to resurrect.
There is also their brand. It's hard to convince users to buy their product line only to later drop the product without any further update, support or lens lines. 

Then there is the other argument. Samsung already has the body, they have the basic lens mount and setup, they have the basic OS to operate a camera. So internal cost of developing it, once there is an all encompassing chip to handle it all, might be reasonable, even as a pet project. Perhaps someone argued internally, having a DSLR using their chip might help improve their video on galaxy or even perhaps be used as a marketing vehicle. "The new Galaxy uses the same chip that runs the most advance digital SLR". This might have been the internal way to have gotten the green-light on this. 

 

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

They burned a lot of people with their last outing

I see your point with this. Yes, there are niche users like Andrew and others here, who like the NX1. But for other users, the possibility of investing on something that might once again face a dead-end is a no go. So because of that, I think Samsung will have an uphill battle to get large enough buyers to buy this, for it to be justifiable. 

 

With Canon and Nikon lining up with their mirrorless camera, and Sony having a huge lead, I just don't see Samsung doing this, unless they can justify a secondary benefit to another product vertical. 
 

[Mark Holmes]

I sold off all my Samsung gear, as soon as it was clear they were killing the line, to switch to Fuji. I love my Fuji gear, but sometimes regret selling my NX1. Looking back at my dog pics; nothing compares. The detail was just astonishing, there’s something about the way the NX1 renders fur.. call me crazy but if the NX line is resurrected I’ll be taking a close look.

[Andrew Reid]

2 minutes ago, salim said:

I see your point with this. Yes, there are niche users like Andrew and others here, who like the NX1. But for other users, the possibility of investing on something that might once again face a dead-end is a no go. So because of that, I think Samsung will have an uphill battle to get large enough buyers to buy this, for it to be justifiable. 

They wouldn't do it for large volume sales.

They would do it for larger Galaxy S9 sales.

Marketing it as Exynos / 4K 120fps

Headlines all over the web... Then customer knows Exynos for the powerful chip it is, and associates the S9 camera with market leading camera specs.

[salim]

14 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

They wouldn't do it for large volume sales.

They would do it for larger Galaxy S9 sales.

I get this argument, but I'm not convinced. If I was a product manager inside Samsung, I am not sure if we could effectively market this. Not because the marketing message is not easy and convincing. But I would think it's still a niche group of people who would care. Beyond that, 99% of people just want to post some cool family photos on Facebook or a quick fun clip on Instagram or on messenger or Snap. When it comes down to it, consumers would go for a the "cool" brand recognition (especially at the high-end price points). That's what brands can do. And this is where Apple has such an edge. So I just don't know creating an entire DSLR line is going to help sell more phones for samsung. 

The more I think about it, the camera line needs to be able to support itself and any auxiliary benefit to mobile line is icing on the cake. For that to happen, Samsung might need to go all in. With several different product line, like how Sony is doing it. Action cameras, 1-3 DSLR models, etc. 

[Mattias Burling]

A NX2 would be a no brainer imo.

The NX1 with the two S-zooms and a couple of primes surfaces for sub $2k every now and then. With just the short S-zoom and one or two primes they touch $1k. If this rumors reaches "probably" I will go for it just to have the lenses ready.

[Kisaha]

@salim no, no, no, no! Samsung did exactly this, and they do not care anymore. Samsung NX10 was the first APS-C mirrorless (and not dSLR as you said! Even though they had a partnership with Pentax and Schneider ages ago) camera in January 2010. There is no point really going back in history and the mistakes they did (their 1st pro camera was the NX1, 5 years after, too late in the pro game, didn't differentiate much before their latest models) but you need pros to push lower sales, like F1/moto GP/WRC, noone will ever buy a F1 car, but they fight hard to win the competition. Canonikon is everywhere, from sports events to red carpets all over the world, whatever you like,  whenever, has been probably photographed by a Canonikon camera, these things are written in the subconscious. Sony knows that (A7 series and now A9 and lenses), m43 group knows that (newer top m43 cameras with 20mgpxls substantially more expensive than the NX1 at release), Samsung may realized that after they finished the line!

What @Andrew Reid said, limited edition, show case camera. Nothing more, nothing less. The industry is too crowded as it is, and top mobile phones go north of 1000$/euros. Why to compete in the declining photo camera market? Seriously, I wouldn't care less. Samsung still is active in VR and 360 and offer some of the cheaper entry level options for both.

@tyger11 wrong! The lens selection brought me to the system (for my photographic hobby) back in the day. Excellent small, sharp and cheap pancakes (10mm - amazing tiny fish eye, 3rd favorite NX lens/16/20/30/45mm 1st favorite NX lens), a cheap and super sharp wide open ultra wide zoom, smallest and lightest in its category (12-24), a masterful 85mm (seriously, try to search some on Flicker, one of the best 85 lenses ever produced), 60mm macro (good for portraits), various cheap zoom (usually, and mostly, better than similar lenses in competing systems, even the ultra cheap kit 16-50PZ is a great little lens on its own, while the Sony, par example, is just useless), then the 2 pro S lenses (late in the game too) the one and only 16-50S (2nd favorite, most used) with IS (something the similar Fuji doesn't have) and starts from 2f (really like having 3 wide primes with 2f) and the amazing 50-150 (sadly I do not own that lens, still goes more than 1000$ used, or more), etc etc. I could go on and on. 

And this is a dead system, go compare with similar APS-C systems like Eos M (not even close to the Samsung, good for amateurs with the 22mm pancake and the 11-22 UWZ, a silly wide macro with a led light on and a few cheap zooms, nothing else), and the Sony one. Fuji has a whole lineup, no native fish eye though, no S workhorse, and inflated prices in most lenses.

[Trek of Joy]

15 minutes ago, salim said:

I get this argument, but I'm not convinced. If I was a product manager inside Samsung, I am not sure if we could effectively market this. Not because the marketing message is not easy and convincing. But I would think it's still a niche group of people who would care. Beyond that, 99% of people just want to post some cool family photos on Facebook or a quick fun clip on Instagram or on messenger or Snap. When it comes down to it, consumers would go for a the "cool" brand recognition (especially at the high-end price points). That's what brands can do. And this is where Apple has such an edge. So I just don't know creating an entire DSLR line is going to help sell more phones for samsung. 

The more I think about it, the camera line needs to be able to support itself and any auxiliary benefit to mobile line is icing on the cake. For that to happen, Samsung might need to go all in. With several different product line, like how Sony is doing it. Action cameras, 1-3 DSLR models, etc. 

This.

And I'm betting all this chatter is just R&D for future Galaxy phones.

Samsung isn't about to re-enter the same space they abandoned a couple years ago with little/no chance of turning a profit. Even if they could reach 10% market share - which would take years, that's still only a few hundred thousand units. Sony is killing it with high price/high margin bodies and lenses - but they also make sensors for most of the other camera manufacturers, which is why they're so far ahead of Canon in most respects - the costs of sensor development doesn't have to be recouped by selling cameras. Samsung can't just drop a $3,000 body and a few $2,000 lenses and instantly become a big player. Nor can they release a NX2 - or whatever you want to call it - and resurrect the old lenses to say "we're back", too many will ignore them because of their past. Casual photographers will still buy plastic Canon Rebels because that's a name they know. Outside of gear heads chasing the spec, it would be a complete flop.