DBounce Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 So as I wait for the pending arrival of my GH5S, I have been looking at some footage to convince myself that it is a smart move. In doing so I noticed that in a recent clip posted on YouTube, it compares the VLog-L mode to HLG mode (1.43). It seems that even after grading the HLG mode renders a better image, with correctly exposed whites, while maintaining details in the shadows. The whole image just looks better. So is HLG using the dual ISOs differently? Take a look and tell me what you think. PannySVHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Hello, HLG with its dynamic range and color is a great curve and color space of 2020 to work and in future to deliver in. It uses the full 10bit range, whereas VLOG uses a smaller range from 128 to 768 compared to the full range from 0 to 1024. On the camera, congratulations! Enjoy your 6400 iso 10bit lowlight camera with up to 100 fps slomo in pixel perfect HD resolution! Vlog l has some awesome color science, so a great thing to have. DBounce, webrunner5 and Rinad Amir 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 The V-Log looks a bit muddy to me in this particular video when compared side by side with HLG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, jonpais said: The V-Log looks a bit muddy when to me in this particular video when compared side by side with HLG. I could be wrong, but I'm starting to feel like the GH5S is a camera that should be used mostly in HLG mode. Whereas, I never really messed with HLG on the GH5. If this is the case, this further differentiates the 'S' from the regular GH5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 @DBounce I wouldnt write VLOG off. Check this comparison in real low light: GH5s and GH5 compared in VLOG at iso6400, 12LUX!, shutter 1/25, Fstop 2.8: GH5: GH5s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 10 minutes ago, PannySVHS said: @DBounce I wouldnt write VLOG off. Check this comparison in real low light: GH5s and GH5 compared in VLOG at iso6400, 12LUX!, shutter 1/25, Fstop 2.8: GH5: GH5s I honestly cannot tell any discernible difference comparing these two. But in scenes with a lot of contrast I have to think HGL on the GH5S is going to have the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 32 minutes ago, DBounce said: I honestly cannot tell any discernible difference comparing these two. But in scenes with a lot of contrast I have to think HGL on the GH5S is going to have the edge. right click and new tab to enlarge both and compare them. it´s a very obvious difference between the two:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, PannySVHS said: right click and new tab to enlarge both and compare them. it´s a very obvious difference between the two:) I’m on my smartphone, so not sure I’m gonna see it on this tiny screen. What are you seeing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 hour ago, DBounce said: I’m on my smartphone, so not sure I’m gonna see it on this tiny screen. What are you seeing? That´s how our films should be seen too:) There is a big difference in this super lowlight setup when you enlarge them to original size. Better check it out again on your computer:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, PannySVHS said: That´s how our films should be seen too:) There is a big difference in this super lowlight setup when you enlarge them to original size. Better check it out again on your computer:) Ok, just viewed it on a 4k monitor... wow, that's night and day. But I think we are not comparing this to HGL. In a high contrast scene, on the same camera (GH5S), I think HGL will prove superior. Granted, I did not realize how much color noise there was in the GH5's image at 6400 ISO, I just knew it always looked like garbage to me, so I never used it. Heck, I had my ISO lock to a maximum of 1600 on the GH5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 GH5s is a legit iso 6400 camera, without artefacts and Super Nintendo blocks and blotches of a Sony A6300/6500 in LOG mode. Giving a really usuable image at that sensitivity. Here is the HLG comparison between the GH5 and its S sister. Again 12Lux, iso6400, 25th shutter, F2.8 GH5 GH5s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 Well honestly, HLG makes a big difference on the GH5 also. But comparing the GH5S VLog-L to HGL, I am still going to give the win to HGL. What do you think? 15 minutes ago, PannySVHS said: GH5s is a legit iso 6400 camera, without artefacts and Super Nintendo blocks and blotches of a Sony A6300/6500 in LOG mode. Giving a really usuable image at that sensitivity. Here is the HLG comparison between the GH5 and its S sister. Again 12Lux, iso6400, 25th shutter, F2.8 GH5 GH5s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 hlg uses the entire range of the the 1024 values, so for low light it should give less artefacts. For SDR delivery i shouldnt make a difference on the GH5s at ISO6400. For HDR delivery we are not able to tell yet:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronChicago Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Been playing around with the GH5s and hope to have some samples up soon. I will say one thing about VLogL. The vast majority of people aren't properly converting V Log into a proper Rec709 color space. Using a LUT in Premiere just doesn't fully cut it. If you go to Resolve and set your input gamma to V Gamut, and output to Rec709 Gamma 2.4, luminance mapping to 500 nits, and saturation mapping ON (min 0.9, max 1.0) you get a full range of DR to manipulate contrast/saturation in Rec709. Rinad Amir, Geoff CB, TheRenaissanceMan and 3 others 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 @AaronChicago Thank you for posting! How did you come up with all the settings? AaronChicago 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronChicago Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 50 minutes ago, PannySVHS said: @AaronChicago Thank you for posting! How did you come up with all the settings? Juan Melaras introduced this technique for BMD Film and Arri Log C. It works the same with V Log. I was able to do a quick comparison with the GH5 before I sold it and the highlight rolloff is definitely better with the GH5s. Here's a quick highlight test in snow with the GH5S. No LUTS used. VLog color managed to Rec709 and a slight curve adjustment for contrast. Settings: VLog L C4K 10 bit All-I Speedbooster Ultra Shutter 180 ISO 400 Leica R 60mm @ F4 Tiffen 0.9 ND PannySVHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 @AaronChicago, thanks for posting again! I bet you would put that EVA1 to great use!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBounce Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 hour ago, AaronChicago said: Juan Melaras introduced this technique for BMD Film and Arri Log C. It works the same with V Log. I was able to do a quick comparison with the GH5 before I sold it and the highlight rolloff is definitely better with the GH5s. Here's a quick highlight test in snow with the GH5S. No LUTS used. VLog color managed to Rec709 and a slight curve adjustment for contrast. Settings: VLog L C4K 10 bit All-I Speedbooster Ultra Shutter 180 ISO 400 Leica R 60mm @ F4 Tiffen 0.9 ND Congrats on the new camera. AaronChicago 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Hilton Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 The difference is even more noticeable with a high-quality grade. (Exact same settings on both) Not just in the noise, but also the dynamic range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwhitz Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 15 hours ago, PannySVHS said: @DBounce I wouldnt write VLOG off. Check this comparison in real low light: GH5s and GH5 compared in VLOG at iso6400, 12LUX!, shutter 1/25, Fstop 2.8: GH5: GH5s Very nice! Did you turn down all the NR and Sharpening in camera? Because allot of the GH5s videos I've seen have been downright atrocious in the detail department... which makes me think they're ruining the image with the picture profiles somehow. Half the posted GH5s vids I've watched look no better than a GoPro or Cellphone (seen plenty of GH5 videos like this also)... horribly crunched and processed. But this looks very nice, full 4k, filmic-looking detail! Would love to see some properly shot GH5s vids soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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