Yannick Willox Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Hi all, I know this has been discussed to death, but I can buy this thing new for 700 euro (577 excl VAT, I have a VAT nr). I currently only have gx80, plan to get a GH5(s) later on. I need a more or less parfocal zoom lens for classical concert work. I have a couple of other good lenses for static shots. The 12-60 has the following advantages for me: - lens OIS (if I ever would buy GH5s this would be an advantage) - focus stays more or less perfect during zooming - slightly more reach than the old 4/3 14-50 panaleica I am using Is there an alternative I do not know of ? The price seems tempting ... AF is not absolutely necessary, but my old 4/3 zoom goes off focus badly, and C-AF does not work at all, only single AF, so during zooming the shot is useless garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PannySVHS Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 The non leica version with f3.5 to 5.6 would save you some money for the GH5s:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 The f3.5 is not parfocal, and it offers no real improvement over my 12-35mm pancake. Also, the price difference is quite small for the moment. The 3.5 is only 100 euro in a kit, so why pay 500 for it ? i can get the 2.8 for less than in a kit offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I would wager that it is not parfocal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted February 6, 2018 Author Share Posted February 6, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 ??? that í not a test I’m afraid. https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/03/mythbusting-parfocal-photo-zooms/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 5 hours ago, Yannick Willox said: The f3.5 is not parfocal, and it offers no real improvement over my 12-35mm pancake. It gives a substantial reach advantage, I'd go for that if I was doing run&gun event/doco work. Orangenz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 since when is the PL 12-60mm f/2.8-3.5 anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Yeah I wasn't bothering to correct that, I'm giving them the benefit of doubt they know about top secret new lens under development ;-) jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 You guys can sure avoid a good question. I am sure some of you own or used the PL 12-60, so you could just anser. my 14-50 Panaleica lens is 2.8-3.5, hence the awful mistake. So you are insinuating the standard 12-60 zoom lens is as good WHILE zooming ? On manual focus ? Does anyone here have actual experience with this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holder Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 use the 12-60 alot - i have the 12-35 too. The 12-60 is a great event lens where you don't have time to change lenses. The 12-35 is great in the studio or in controlled shooting environments. The voigtlander 25 gives you proper depth of field focus fall off if you need it The reach is great - with etc in 1080p you can get to 240 ff equiv at the snap of a button. SUPER HANDY (dont use etc at high iso thoug or you will be reaching for neat noise reduction) None of these lenses should be used for anything other than a snap zoom. Weird things happen mid zoom Reframe and then hit record - if you need a zoom lens then look at something with a servo on it. Orangenz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 And about the Parafocal part. There is No such thing as a cheap Parafocal lens. And by cheap I mean Thousands of Dollars or more for a good one. It just about has to be a Cine lens, and you know how cheap those are, to be built well enough. I am sure there is a few Cheap ones, but not many. The cheapest Parafocal lens I know you can buy is a B4 lens. I have had a bunch of them. IF it has, and it has to, a 2x converter in it it will cover m4/3 imagine circle when engaged. And, and a big And, it has to be a 2/3" one, not the 1/2" one. Most of them are the 2/3" ones. Now I am not sure if the new Sensor in the GH5s will work perfect. I have not been on the Facebook B4 lens section for awhile. I used to contribute to it a lot. I was one of the first to use them on m4/3. Not the first but just happened to have them laying around and got a good deal at the time from a guy in Germany making one off B4 to m4/3 adapters. Now you can buy them for 20 bucks, then 250 bucks and up. They are fun to try if for anything else. They make a Leica lens look like shit quality wise LoL. They are a thing of beauty.They work Really well on a BMPCC, and the BMCC if it is the MFT mount also. You don't have to have the 2x one for them. But you can NOT handhold a B4 lens. Tripod, and a Damn good one at that, only. But you can buy what used to be a $10,000.00 lens or more, for around 75 bucks or more on eBay, Adorama, etc. But for that money most, well all, will have the zoom servo Not working unless you are lucky as hell. The motors in them just flat wear out over time. I am a bigger fan of Fujinon lens than any of the rest. But none of them is junk trust me. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Matt Holder said: The 12-60 is a great event lens where you don't have time to change lenses. None of these lenses should be used for anything other than a snap zoom. Weird things happen mid zoom Reframe and then hit record - if you need a zoom lens then look at something with a servo on it. Ok, thanks for the feedback. I am using this mainly for concert or classical music recording (live or entire 5-20 min takes). I do not want to stop recording to refocus, as that results in too many clips to resync with my audio recording (which is what I do professionally, the audio part). That is the biggest problem with my old 14-50 in fly-by-wire MF. After a zoom I need time to refocus (too much time). It does not function in C-AF on m43, only single AF ! I am looking for a lens with slightly more reach (14mm is just not wide enough, often enough), as good light and optical performance (the 14-50mm still can be bought new for 1400...) and that will not loose focus while zooming. If I cannot use the zoom part of the clip, so be it, but after a zoom it would be nice to have critical focus within 1s. I could also buy a Black Magic 4K video assist, and keep using the 14-50m. I just thought the BM 4K seems like a dead path (SD cards remaining quite expensive, and the thing eats them), while the 12-60 seems like a lens I will use the next 5 years. Also do not forget the deal I can have on it for the moment. @Webrunner: I know there is "parfocal" and real parfocal, but I neither want a 10000 dollar lens, nor a bazooka :-) Maybe I should just buy the disposable flame thrower that has just been released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 How about just setting the camera on manual and using tap to focus. Super fast, accurate and no hunting. No stopping to re-focus. No pulsing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangenz Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, Yannick Willox said: Ok, thanks for the feedback. I am using this mainly for concert or classical music recording (live or entire 5-20 min takes). I do not want to stop recording to refocus, as that results in too many clips to resync with my audio recording (which is what I do professionally, the audio part). Sounds like you could use Plural Eyes for that part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, jonpais said: How about just setting the camera on manual and using tap to focus. Super fast, accurate and no hunting. No stopping to re-focus. No pulsing. Yes of course. My old 14-50 does not do tap to focus while recording. The new ones all do. I seem to keep forgetting as I have never used it that way. So, the next question: which one does it better, the panaleica or the cheaper pana ? Currently it is only a 200 euro price difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 both lenses have fast af, sharpness is comparable, bokeh will be similar - of course, build quality of the PL is much nicer. Color of the lumix may or may not match your 14-50 better. Personally, I’d get the leica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted February 7, 2018 Author Share Posted February 7, 2018 Since my 14-50 is a Panaleica, I guess I’ll go for the Leica. I’m flooded with an extra job this week, so money is no issue The Lumix has a full stop less light than my 14-50, I have the 4/3 panaleica 14-150 for that ! I have the Lumix L1, and found the 14-150 secondhand a few years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 17 hours ago, Yannick Willox said: Ok, thanks for the feedback. I am using this mainly for concert or classical music recording (live or entire 5-20 min takes). I do not want to stop recording to refocus, as that results in too many clips to resync with my audio recording (which is what I do professionally, the audio part). That is the biggest problem with my old 14-50 in fly-by-wire MF. After a zoom I need time to refocus (too much time). It does not function in C-AF on m43, only single AF ! I am looking for a lens with slightly more reach (14mm is just not wide enough, often enough), as good light and optical performance (the 14-50mm still can be bought new for 1400...) and that will not loose focus while zooming. If I cannot use the zoom part of the clip, so be it, but after a zoom it would be nice to have critical focus within 1s. I could also buy a Black Magic 4K video assist, and keep using the 14-50m. I just thought the BM 4K seems like a dead path (SD cards remaining quite expensive, and the thing eats them), while the 12-60 seems like a lens I will use the next 5 years. Also do not forget the deal I can have on it for the moment. @Webrunner: I know there is "parfocal" and real parfocal, but I neither want a 10000 dollar lens, nor a bazooka :-) Maybe I should just buy the disposable flame thrower that has just been released. How are you getting a 4/3 14-50mm to focus on anything but a 4/3 Olympus body or a m4/3 Olympus Em1 mk I, or mk II body with any real success? That is a phase-detect AF lens. I used to use a 12-60 4/3 lens on my Oly EM1. Worked pretty good on it. Heavy as hell lens though. But a sharp lens. They are pretty cheap these days. Well and if you want to play with the big boys you have to pay like the big boys. No free lunch. Pretend Parafocal or real Parafocal. Most lenses aren't too bad, but a real pain in the ass if you are in a hurry or doing Run n Gun. It helps to be rich and do video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannick Willox Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 The old 4/3 panaleicalenses or on the compatibility list of the new camera’s, so I guess they managed to get them to work somehow. Focus takes about 3 seconds with the 14-50, but is precise. With the (newer) 14-150, focus is rather quick, half a second at the most. Or it misses at the tele end, the focussing is near infinity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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