Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

[Andrew Reid]

Yes the 120fps seems to have major issues. A lot of moire and heavy aliasing.

Looks like A6500's 120fps.

I wish they'd upgraded the sensor.

[Yurolov]

What's people's thoughts on the autofocus video above? Seemed fairly useable - perhaps on par with a6500?

[Emanuel]

Seems pretty decent, even though Johnnie Behiri had found the version he got access only inconsistent. Devices require a fair learning curve so I guess we'll find better samples in most skilled hands-on from then on.

 

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

Sorry, @anonim, all out of likes for today!

Two's company, three's a crowd.

6 hours ago, anonim said:

(...)

So many posts later along this thread, I am really flattered by this time... The last or almost every single post from yours contempt citations from my own posts, you're a loyal reader I see. I thought all that because of a tool... You're fully right on that one: how naive I am! *Sigh* (may I? :D) So, I am in doubt which one to choose right now LOL Man, I won't sleep tonight. My babbling dictionary is all out of entries to follow you after hours here, I'm sorry hehe Where exactly sits the playground we met before? A déjà vu crosses my mind ; ) on February 12 (same deal, same bitch, page 9, not too much or never enough?!... after all, tools like guns, triggers, etc don't kill, men instead do) you had advised me to not going on some "uber-patriarch" style you dislike, because of that our good sailor "here in EOSHD" as you wrote "in the incarnation" of some "intonation" you're not colored with, we could all read. My deepest feelings, I'll try my very best to keep the topic (Hit The Road Jack, not the man, so never you!) in my thoughts and prayers if I find a place for such :-D

 

 

"Life's more complex than an arc of a screenplay" (~ Ben Wheatley)

Hard to find twice the same color (E :-)

[jonpais]

@Emanuel Instead of repeatedly bludgeoning us over the head with the mantra that (1) Fuji color is equal to a mini alexa, therefore (2) it is the best mirrorless system in the entire world and (3) anyone who disagrees must be blind, I’d suggest a different tactic.

A year and-a-half after its release, following thousands of positive reviews, the X-T2, which has the identical sensor and same color science as the X-H1, continues to trail far behind the competition.

I only chose to compare the X-H1 to Panasonic because that’s the only other system I’m familiar with. And the design philosophy of the two manufacturers couldn’t be more different. In fact, Fuji design departs radically from that of other camera companies. In their promotional materials, they boast about the camera’s responsiveness and ergonomics, and how the X-H1 is like an extension of the mind’s eye: so I think it’s worthwhile exploring these claims. Camera reviewers seem to agree - as no reviewer worth their salt, whether talking about a Red Weapon or the GM5, overlooks things like handling and UI.

But Panasonic is small change.How about Sony, with its convoluted menus, handling issues and color science? Why do nine out of ten filmmakers choose Sony over Fuji? Let’s assume for a moment that not all Sony users are unaware of the system’s shortcomings; that they are intelligent human beings who have spent hours scrutinizing footage; that they are fully capable of differentiating between good color and bad; and that, as demanding professionals, they are ready at a moment’s notice to sell off their camera for a better one. As it turns out, there are dozens of other considerations to take into account and it’s gonna take a whole lot more than just color science to get them to switch. Cameras are a little more complicated than television sets: I’ll purchase an OLED TV for its superior image quality alone; a camera, never.

[sandro]

I wonder if those features (still) missing and crippling are because they're really not able to do it technically or is it the trend CanonSony started? = "since others won't innovate that much let's just do little to no upgrades as well so we can get all the money that we can with zero costs".

Did we get ourselves a new Canon/a6xxx?

[Inazuma]

It took Sony years and multiple releases of consumer and pro (fs7) cameras before they became more dominant over Canon in the budget filmmaking sector. Can't expect Fuji to do the same with just one release

[jonpais]

@Inazuma Believe me, I didn't - but I would have loved it if they'd hit this one out of the ballpark.

[Inazuma]

46 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@Inazuma Believe me, I didn't - but I would have loved it if they'd hit this one out of the ballpark.

For a stills and video hybrid camera what do you think is it's closest competitor? I believe the only thing close is the Sony a7r iii. When you take into account stills quality, 4k and 1080 quality in good and bad light, features such as log profile, 120fps, phase AF (contrast AF is quite distracting for continuous shooting), ergonomics. The thing that makes a7r iii better imo are some things that Fuji stupidly skipped on such as bigger battery and headphone jack. 

(Disclaimer: above comments are going by previous experience with the XT2, not with the XH1 itself)

[jonpais]

I think you’re right - the a7R III is probably its closest rival in terms of stills and video. But since I’ve got no experience with Sony, I can’t really offer an opinion. 

[frontfocus]

I really don't get it. 2 years ago Fujis were probably the worst cameras you could get for video. Heavy moire, missing sharpness, no control over settings. The X-T2 changed a lot of it. The image quality was very nice and it added some controls. 

And now, the X-H1 adds another bunch of nice features. No, it doesn't do 60fps or 10bit, but as a whole I think the camera looks very nice. It seems they improved the autofocus, they added a lot of features like 1/48s, linear response of focus or internal Log and added hardware like IBIS and the touch screen. 

No, it's not a GH5 killer, but I don't think it's supposed to be. "Jack of all trades, master of none", seems fitting. It's mildly cropped APS-C sensor won't match the low light performance of an A7S but it will be better than the GH5. Might be very close to the GH5s though. It's improved autofocus will probably not match canons dual pixel, but it might just be up there with Sony, close behind. And it doesn't have waveform or zebras yet (slashcam says Fuji might add those in an upcoming firmwareupdate) but it does have a lot of other small things, like the internal log profile, the 200Mbit/s codec, the DCI 4K option, 1/48s shutter speed, timecode, tally light and so on. And all of that with the very nice Fuji colors. To me it feels like a camera that might be very interesting to people shooting not video only, but both, photos and videos.

[Emanuel]

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

@Emanuel Instead of repeatedly bludgeoning us over the head with the mantra that (1) Fuji color is equal to a mini alexa, therefore (2) it is the best mirrorless system in the entire world and (3) anyone who disagrees must be blind, I’d suggest a different tactic.

A year and-a-half after its release, following thousands of positive reviews, the X-T2, which has the identical sensor and same color science as the X-H1, continues to trail far behind the competition.

I only chose to compare the X-H1 to Panasonic because that’s the only other system I’m familiar with. And the design philosophy of the two manufacturers couldn’t be more different. In fact, Fuji design departs radically from that of other camera companies. In their promotional materials, they boast about the camera’s responsiveness and ergonomics, and how the X-H1 is like an extension of the mind’s eye: so I think it’s worthwhile exploring these claims. Camera reviewers seem to agree - as no reviewer worth their salt, whether talking about a Red Weapon or the GM5, overlooks things like handling and UI.

But Panasonic is small change.How about Sony, with its convoluted menus, handling issues and color science? Why do nine out of ten filmmakers choose Sony over Fuji? Let’s assume for a moment that not all Sony users are unaware of the system’s shortcomings; that they are intelligent human beings who have spent hours scrutinizing footage; that they are fully capable of differentiating between good color and bad; and that, as demanding professionals, they are ready at a moment’s notice to sell off their camera for a better one. As it turns out, there are dozens of other considerations to take into account and it’s gonna take a whole lot more than just color science to get them to switch. Cameras are a little more complicated than television sets: I’ll purchase an OLED TV for its superior image quality alone; a camera, never.

LOL I'd love to choose a mirrorless system for its (superior... ah forbidden word! ; ) color science but I can't *crybaby* (now :D)

It is a pleasure to read your colorful juicy posts as usual, much better than when you are all out of likes hehe ;-)

[anonim]

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

@EmanuelLet’s assume for a moment...

I'm not optimist...

[Trek of Joy]

8 hours ago, jonpais said:

A year and-a-half after its release, following thousands of positive reviews, the X-T2, which has the identical sensor and same color science as the X-H1, continues to trail far behind the competition.

I only chose to compare the X-H1 to Panasonic because that’s the only other system I’m familiar with. And the design philosophy of the two manufacturers couldn’t be more different.

Ehh, on the video side they may not have the most cutting edge features in terms of frame/bit rates, because they're still very much like Nikon - more focused on stills. I'd say the XH1 is superior to any m43 cam outside of the GH5's on the video side. And its certainly competitive with every other APS-c camera on the market. It can give Canon FF a run for its money too. As a stills camera Fuji is - IMO - far better than anything m43. If you're a heavy stills/video shooter, I'd take the XT2 or XH1 over any m43 or Canon body until you hit the 1dx2 or 1dc. But even that's subjective based on your needs. And personally, as a natural light travel shooter, I hate higher ISO noise. NR has an impact on fine detail. Lots of debate over skin tones here, Fuji's are sublime in a few of their film profiles. Plus Pro Neg can be dialed to match Canon pretty well. 

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. Like most here, I'm looking for the unicorn. The perfect camera isn't there yet, and even when we do have a 4k60p, 10-bit body with IBIS, great AF, global shutter, and shoots amazing stills - there will still be warts. My definition of great will be different from you or anyone shooting narrative, because I'm very much a run-and-gun shooter that often doesn't have time to grade hundreds of clips for a 2 minute video. I like the final product to be as close as possible in cam. For me that point is much easier to reach with Fuji - despite its quirks. 

I have a love/hate relationship with Sony too, they still refuse to put two UHS-II cards in any of their bodies, even the $4500 a9. Its part of the reason I'm not buying the a7r3. The Xpro2/XT2 had them for a couple years, I can shoot to both cards without any card-writing delays. The Sony shutter sounds like a car slamming into a light pole, Fuji's is so much better, and the XH1 has dramatically improved on the XT2's already pleasing shutter with its floating mechanism. It goes on.

Panasonic gives pre release until to lots of experiences video producers and it shows in pieces like Neuman's robot film. Fuji gave the XH1 to a few, they put together more release videos highlighting the video side of the XH1. They're definitely moving in the right direction. Adding 20 more pages to this thread is just shouting in a vacuum IMO - hit Fujiguys up on social, comment on their videos, comment to the Fuji honks that get test units to pass the word to Fuji, or even Fujirumors with your list of fixes. 

I do want to continue hammering Fuji to improve the video shooting experience, because they can make a lot of progress with FW updates. The last sentence quoted is accurate, Fuji has cultivated a user group that's very vocal about things like the exposure comp dial, and not about zebras. Just look at comments about a forward facing LCD, its all about the narcissistic selfie generation, not about its usefulness. Same goes for touchscreens, video, AF shooting video, and so on. Pick your poison...

Chris

[Tim Sewell]

Quote

Fuji has cultivated a user group that's very vocal about things like the exposure comp dial, and not about zebras.

Definitely right there. The Fuji users' forum I frequent is, in general, pretty sniffy about video. Most times, when someone comes up with a video related question, at least 25% of the responses will be 'buy a video camera'.

[Trek of Joy]

20 minutes ago, Tim Sewell said:

Definitely right there. The Fuji users' forum I frequent is, in general, pretty sniffy about video. Most times, when someone comes up with a video related question, at least 25% of the responses will be 'buy a video camera'.

Yes, I really hate that argument. Along with "Fuji needs to stop wasting resources on video to improve stills" as if the two are completely unrelated. Just like when the anti-IBIS crowd kept repeating the BS comments about how much IBIS degrades IQ, or how it won't work with the X-mount. SMH.

Chris

[mkabi]

29 minutes ago, Tim Sewell said:

Definitely right there. The Fuji users' forum I frequent is, in general, pretty sniffy about video. Most times, when someone comes up with a video related question, at least 25% of the responses will be 'buy a video camera'.

Thats how canonrumors.com is too.

These people are too stupid to know how good video can look coming from these large sensored cameras. 

In any case, this is smart of Fuji.... people that think that way, can't complain that they have to pay extra for video... I mean, yeah... you are paying extra for video in this case, but its the same sensor as the other cameras, if you don't want the video features go to the other cameras (plain and simple, and its cheaper too).

[webrunner5]

4 hours ago, mkabi said:

Thats how canonrumors.com is too.

These people are too stupid to know how good video can look coming from these large sensored cameras. 

In any case, this is smart of Fuji.... people that think that way, can't complain that they have to pay extra for video... I mean, yeah... you are paying extra for video in this case, but its the same sensor as the other cameras, if you don't want the video features go to the other cameras (plain and simple, and its cheaper too).

I think in the not too far future you won't even be able to buy a stills camera. It will have 8k and you just use frame grabs, or hell 10k or more, but I doubt it have the same usage for a shutter button as we have now.

And your right, "those people" are too stupid to see the benefit of it.

4 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

I guess it depends on what you're looking for. Like most here, I'm looking for the unicorn. The perfect camera isn't there yet, and even when we do have a 4k60p, 10-bit body with IBIS, great AF, global shutter, and shoots amazing stills - there will still be warts. My definition of great will be different from you or anyone shooting narrative, because I'm very much a run-and-gun shooter that often doesn't have time to grade hundreds of clips for a 2 minute video. I like the final product to be as close as possible in cam. For me that point is much easier to reach with Fuji - despite its quirks. 

 

Yeah it is pretty crazy that you have to buy Resolve to be a great Colorist in this day and age to get a decent look to video. This Fuji might be a start of a great output for not a ton of money that does that with reasonably cheap media to boot. The 1DC sort of did that, but neither camera, or the media for it was "cheap".

[Tim Sewell]

Quote

I think in the not too far future you won't even be able to buy a stills camera. It will have 8k and you just use frame grabs, or hell 10k or more, but I doubt it have the same usage for a shutter button as we have now.

I think you'll be able to buy cameras affordably that will do that, but I don't for a moment anticipate that that will result in the demise of the true stills camera. There will still be a substantial group of people who want to take individual shots - myself among them - for the art and craft of it. I can definitely imagine frame grabs becoming much more prevalent in commercial and reportage situations though.

[UncleBobsPhotography]

Isn't 200Mbit/s the highest non-intra bitrate of any of the cameras in its class? The GH5 only uses 150Mbit/s and the a7rIII only uses 100Mbit/s. Intra is a less efficient codec, so even though the GH5 has a 400Mbit/s codec, this could theoretically have the least amount of compression artefacts in its class.

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, UncleBobsPhotography said:

Isn't 200Mbit/s the highest non-intra bitrate of any of the cameras in its class? The GH5 only uses 150Mbit/s and the a7rIII only uses 100Mbit/s. Intra is a less efficient codec, so even though the GH5 has a 400Mbit/s codec, this could theoretically have the least amount of compression artefacts in its class.

In theory the NX1 is the best here

H.265 is double the efficiency of H.264 and it cranks to 160Mbit reliably with the hack.

That is equivalent to 320Mbit/s IPB H.264.

It's a very stable image.