Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

[jonpais]

@Emanuel You’ve done the very same yourself, my good friend of the boards. But thanks for trying to keep the peace. 

[mkabi]

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

If a few are going to suggest that I was flaming, I think it’s important to remember why I restated my points in the first place. When a forum member made a ridiculing comment that ergonomics had no place in the discussion, I was compelled to explain why ergonomics are important, and that just happens to be the first aspect reviewers talk about when evaluating any camera. When another forum member said the lack of certain features did not bother them, I tried to explain that not only would such features not interfere with their picture taking, but that thousands of other photographers found those features useful and had actually requested them. And when someone said I was a fanboy and had no business comparing one camera to another, I went back and rewrote my criticisms without referencing any other camera. Of course, I could keep my peace or just write positive things about the camera - but we are already inundated with hundreds of photographers and reviewers who are sponsored by Fuji. But I will say that if none of what I’ve said matters to you and the only thing holding you back from getting this camera is that you’re waiting to see more tests or sample footage, I would say just go ahead and buy it. The image quality and lenses are what sold me on Fuji in the first place.

You can be honest, I don't mind you comparing the X-H1 to the GH5. Or the X-T2 to the GH5.... From purely image quality standpoint (forget the ergonomics - assume both have the exact same ergonomics)... Straight out of the camera (you don't have time to edit the footage).... So forget color correction so you need to choose a profile (other than HLG or V-log) and stick with it. Which image would you rather deliver? The one from the X-T2 or the GH5?

[jonpais]

You’re probably not going to like my answer, @mkabi, but shooting HLG and throwing a LUT on it gets me closer to what I prefer. 

While some of my favorite films, like those shot by Christopher Doyle, are vibrant and full of color, I tend to favor a more muted palette. 

Classic Chrome is a lovely photo style, though. And I would have no hesitation recommending either the X-T2 or X-H1 based solely on image quality alone. Or if someone is shooting 50/50 photos/video. 

Here’s a video I’ve shared before, SOOC. 

Edit: There’s a new kid on the block now, so I guess I’d wait to check that one out too.

[Emanuel]

5 hours ago, jonpais said:

@Emanuel You’ve done the very same yourself, my good friend of the boards. But thanks for trying to keep the peace. 

I think we should always try to see the positive side of everything without leaving outside the shortcomings. People should know how to deal with less positive stuff coming from. For some reason there are workarounds to live with. I guess it is because of that I tend to accept the GH5 series AF performance in the same way I don't give ergonomics the importance others like you feel.

Something I can't handle though is to see people I've learned to admire or not even necessarily them to be attacked without mercy. As much as personal attacks in a forum, where people come civil to enjoy some common interests like ours to share. Only can ask for tolerance zero. Yet on flaming wars to keep going without coming back, especially when involves to let some other third party down. I believe we must always respect the adversary counterpart. People invariably have something to offer us. I wouldn't mind to end in a limbo if my integrity stands. Attitude is paramount. Much more important than camera ergonomics : D or any other camera feature others see as they can't live without it. Well, I must confess some releases have actually nothing to offer me too. But, I will survive : )

Last but not least, we can always learn with our mates anywhere even when we don't share the same opinion. I've really appreciated your entries on topic as usual BTW. And still find them rather interesting. Even though, IQ is what leads my interest about cameras including this device particularly. We are in a Fuji thread, what else we would find here after all? :-)

 

PS: In some other page over these same boards Glenn had mentioned or inferred IIRC your Fuji clips are beyond the GH5 ones. Despite my Fuji love, I can't concur. Same pilot who leads the grace when competent as happens in your case, not the tool. Kudos in the right place.

[j-oc]

I just got the chance to try out an XH-1 at a camera store. It’s awesome and I ordered it on the spot. Happy to answer any questions from my 10mins or so with the camera.

[mkabi]

9 minutes ago, j-oc said:

I just got the chance to try out an XH-1 at a camera store. It’s awesome and I ordered it on the spot. Happy to answer any questions from my 10mins or so with the camera.

Wow... okay. Are you an existing Fuji owner, do you have lenses, other bodies, etc.?

Using a camera like this, what percentage do you figure you will use it for photography vs. video?

Did you buy it with or without battery grip?

Did you try the pre-production model or production model?

Depending on the answers that you provide, it will most likely incite more questions.

[j-oc]

3 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Wow... okay. Are you an existing Fuji owner, do you have lenses, other bodies, etc.?

Using a camera like this, what percentage do you figure you will use it for photography vs. video?

Did you buy it with or without battery grip?

Did you try the pre-production model or production model?

Depending on the answers that you provide, it will most likely incite more questions.

1. Yes, two Xpro2s, an x100s, the two big zooms, a 23mm, a 56mm and an 18mm.

2. I’ll use it for professional dance and theatre photography mainly. I shoot 3-4 little paid video bits a year but it’s not a huge part of my business.

3. Both.

4. According to the rep it was a finished production model. It should be in stores next week.

[Emanuel]

5 minutes ago, j-oc said:

1. Yes, two Xpro2s, an x100s, the two big zooms, a 23mm, a 56mm and an 18mm.

2. I’ll use it for professional dance and theatre photography mainly. I shoot 3-4 little paid video bits a year but it’s not a huge part of my business.

3. Both.

4. According to the rep it was a finished production model. It should be in stores next week.

I am fully in love for this one here... How have you found AF? Where are you based in?

[mkabi]

7 hours ago, jonpais said:

You’re probably not going to like my answer, @mkabi, but shooting HLG and throwing a LUT on it gets me closer to what I prefer. 

While some of my favorite films, like those shot by Christopher Doyle, are vibrant and full of color, I tend to favor a more muted palette. 

Classic Chrome is a lovely photo style, though. And I would have no hesitation recommending either the X-T2 or X-H1 based solely on image quality alone. Or if someone is shooting 50/50 photos/video. 

You are right, I'm not going to like your answer, but thats because you never answered my question properly.

And, I'll explain why.... this -> "You’re probably not going to like my answer, @mkabi, but shooting HLG and throwing a LUT on it gets me closer to what I prefer. "

Makes me assume that you like the IQ of the GH5, but I specifically told you - you can't use HLG or color correct meaning you can't throw a LUT on it.

Then you say, "And I would have no hesitation recommending either the X-T2 or X-H1 based solely on image quality alone."

Its a recommendation, but its not telling me which one you prefer - the GH5's IQ or X-T2's IQ.

I know you like muted colors, so turn down the saturation in camera and press record.

Let me ask the question again, you have to deliver what you have to the end-client straight from camera (no color correction) - which IQ do you prefer the X-T2 or the Gh5?

Be honest, I'm not going to be hurt, yeah sure.... I'm interested in the X-H1 - but I don't have a pre-order on it, nor do I own any Fuji lenses. If all the reviews say, stay away.... the image quality is worse than so and so camera and the so and so camera is cheaper than the X-H1, why would I buy the X-H1?

[j-oc]

2 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I am fully in love for this one here... How have you found AF? Where are you based in?

Love you too sugar!

The AF was very quick, responsive and smooth. But I was shooting mainly static things in a camera store not ballerinas so this wasn’t an exhaustive test.

Im in Manchester.

[mkabi]

9 minutes ago, j-oc said:

1. Yes, two Xpro2s, an x100s, the two big zooms, a 23mm, a 56mm and an 18mm.

2. I’ll use it for professional dance and theatre photography mainly. I shoot 3-4 little paid video bits a year but it’s not a huge part of my business.

3. Both.

4. According to the rep it was a finished production model. It should be in stores next week.

So you bought 2 X-H1s? Given that you only played with it for 10 min., how long did you get to play with the video functions?

[Emanuel]

16 minutes ago, mkabi said:

You are right, I'm not going to like your answer, but thats because you never answered my question properly.

And, I'll explain why.... this -> "You’re probably not going to like my answer, @mkabi, but shooting HLG and throwing a LUT on it gets me closer to what I prefer. "

Makes me assume that you like the IQ of the GH5, but I specifically told you - you can't use HLG or color correct meaning you can't throw a LUT on it.

Then you say, "And I would have no hesitation recommending either the X-T2 or X-H1 based solely on image quality alone."

Its a recommendation, but its not telling me which one you prefer - the GH5's IQ or X-T2's IQ.

I know you like muted colors, so turn down the saturation in camera and press record.

Let me ask the question again, you have to deliver what you have to the end-client straight from camera (no color correction) - which IQ do you prefer the X-T2 or the Gh5?

Be honest, I'm not going to be hurt, yeah sure.... I'm interested in the X-H1 - but I don't have a pre-order on it, nor do I own any Fuji lenses. If all the reviews say, stay away.... the image quality is worse than so and so camera and the so and so camera is cheaper than the X-H1, why would I buy the X-H1?

I am surely not our good Jon but I think I can answer you on that one : )

You can mimic whatever outcome you want when you have certain features. GH5 series have all the features and many others to achieve that and beyond this. It just depends on your skills.

SOOC any Fuji is better, from their unique color science.

There's no worse, just different approach for. Depending on your needs and taste of working.

Hope this helps! (E :-)

 

14 minutes ago, j-oc said:

Love you too sugar!

The AF was very quick, responsive and smooth. But I was shooting mainly static things in a camera store not ballerinas so this wasn’t an exhaustive test.

Im in Manchester.

haha I mentioned the camera, pal! : ) Nice to know brexit didn't pop up yet ; ) Always accurate AF? :-)

[mkabi]

1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

I am surely not our good Jon but I think I can answer you on that one : )

You can mimic whatever outcome you want when you have certain features. GH5 series have all the features to achieve that. It just depends on your skills.

SOOC any Fuji is better, from their unique color science.

There's no worse, just different approach for. Depending on your needs and taste of working.

Hope this helps! :-)

I just want his personal opinion...and I don't know about mimicking the outcome to match another camera's IQ. Also, its not something I want to spend hours doing... I remember saying that you have to find a camera where the end result must please the majority (who watches it)... Everyone loves the IQ of Arri cams... hands down, no questions asked... can you really emulate the GH5's IQ to be like any Arri cam, if not you, may be someone more skilled? If so, why havent the big wigs (in hollywood) caught on and saved money by using the GH5 instead?

[j-oc]

15 minutes ago, mkabi said:

So you bought 2 X-H1s? Given that you only played with it for 10 min., how long did you get to play with the video functions?

I bought one, it will replace one Xpro2. 

I dunno exactly how long. I was in the store for like 20 mins - did you want to know something specific?

14 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

haha I mentioned the camera, pal! : ) Nice to know brexit didn't pop up yet ; ) Always accurate AF? :-)

Yep, seemed good. Like all Fuji’s you have to change the size of the AF box to get the best results for each scene.

[mkabi]

1 minute ago, j-oc said:

I bought one, it will replace one Xpro2. 

I dunno exactly how long. I was in the store for like 20 mins - did you want to know something specific?

Did you get to take home footage? 

Just want to know if that moire and aliasing issue in 120p still a big issue.

[j-oc]

5 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Did you get to take home footage? 

Just want to know if that moire and aliasing issue in 120p still a big issue.

Could have done if I wanted but I wasn’t bothered. I didn’t try any slowmo so can’t help you with that, sorry.

[Emanuel]

21 minutes ago, mkabi said:

I just want his personal opinion...and I don't know about mimicking the outcome to match another camera's IQ. Also, its not something I want to spend hours doing... I remember saying that you have to find a camera where the end result must please the majority (who watches it)... Everyone loves the IQ of Arri cams... hands down, no questions asked... can you really emulate the GH5's IQ to be like any Arri cam, if not you, may be someone more skilled? If so, why havent the big wigs (in hollywood) caught on and saved money by using the GH5 instead?

I understand you. Jon's stubborn like hell :-) A bit wild kid at times, but who doesn't like him is because doesn't know how to appreciate his insights.

On your hollywood wondering, I never worked in hollywood but I have worked and am connected with people there. It is an industry. They are not focused to save pennies paying attention to most affordable players. They don't even want or care about other than their solid budget league. Certain stuff is not even welcome because it is too cheap. This will obviously have a consequence on some other items directly in the payroll if I make myself to be understood about. This doesn't mean the tools you have can't match their outcome with your craft or we would never have indies to begin with or IMNSHO I hadn't had the chance to produce a feature shot on 35mm BTW but awarded in Sundance and Berlin with Angelina Jolie as Executive Producer or to produce both shot on DSLR cameras a documentary in Indonesia with Spike Lee or yet to have a 2nd feature produced in the same Berlinale (Berlin International Film Festival) edition (E :-)

[Kisaha]

No offense (disclaimer: no offense), but I do not believe there are many people in this industry able to shoot Alexa, and choose Fuji, or GH5, or anything else, instead. 

I am not sure you know how the industry works. A 100.000.000 film won't cut money from the camera. Maybe they will choose a different actor, that will cost them 1.000.000 rather than the 10.000.000 of Brand Pitt and executive producer credits (and percentage of the profit), but a major film, will use the best equipment available.

Even here, a tiny market, and the big films and commercials are shot in Alexas or Reds.

But there will be a lot of low to middle clients, ask for 10 bit (it happened to me twice in 2017) that can't really afford it, but now with the GH is possible, and cheap.

No shame in anyone's choice of cameras. Different tools, for different people, for different jobs. The thing with the GH5 is that does a few things, that NO OTHER camera does for the price, or even 4 times the price.

The thing with the colors is overstated a bit. There is a similar discussion in the A7iii thread right now, there are people that like Sony colors (yes, there are) and there are others stating that whatever you want, you can achieve easily in camera by the settings. I have said before, that plug ins/luts/settings can achieve anyone whatever look he wants. Color science is a lot better right now, than 10 years ago, when digital was in its infant stages.

No offence. Fuji is a great company, I still own 2 of those from their early digital era, and I am still in the fuji.co.uk mailing list. For most people are enough, and probably the best choice.

[mkabi]

20 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

I understand you. Jon's stubborn like hell :-) A bit wild kid at times, but who doesn't like him is because doesn't know how to appreciate his insights.

On your hollywood wondering, I never worked in hollywood but I have worked and am connected with people there. It is an industry. They are not focused to save pennies paying attention to most affordable players. They don't even want or care about other than their solid budgets. Certain stuff is not even welcome because it is too cheap. This will obviously have a consequence on some other items directly in the payroll if I make myself to be understood about. This doesn't mean the tools you have can't match their outcome with your craft or we would never have indies to begin with or IMNSHO I hadn't had the chance to produce a feature shot on 35mm BTW but awarded in Sundance and Berlin with Angelina Jolie as Executive Producer or to produce both shot on DSLR cameras a documentary in Indonesia with Spike Lee or yet to have a 2nd feature produced in the same Berlin Film Festival edition (E :-)

I get brand power has some function in it. I remember in another thread (I think Webrunner5 posted a video) and it had some old school (experienced) DP reviewing other cams while holding a Varicam; anyway, he said something along the lines of using a cheaper cam as long as it produces similar or better results than the expensive cam, why not use it... "charge them for the expensive unit and pocket the rest." I know I would.... f*ck... if you want I would put a big wooden box around the GH5, label it ARRI and call it a day. Charge 1 mill, pocket 950K

[mkabi]

8 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I am not sure you know how the industry works.

Don't worry, I'm not taking offense; but, you shouldn't take offense when I say what I am about to say...

I don't think you know how the industry works... its a business first... then art... then tech.

Business first... they want to make the most amount of money by spending the least amount of money. How do you think the Blair Witch Project spawned a bunch of camcorder movies?

A budget of $60K (USD) - Box Office: $248.6 Million (USD). 

Today's consumer cam is far more advanced than yester-year's cinema camera - does the byproduct of yester-years cinema camera any less watchable?

For example: 

I know, I know bad example.... as the actual content is not exactly watchable... but you get where I am going for arguments sake.