Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

[Attila Bakos]

@frontfocus Can you please check if 1080p60 has more moiré/aliasing on the X-H1 than on the X-T2? I'd like to know if you can confirm this.

[frontfocus]

@Attila Bakos I will do. Don‘t know if I find enough spare time today or tomorrow, since I first have to get my X-T2, but weekend at the lastest I will do

[BTM_Pix]

Do you have the grip with it and if you do is it giving as significant a bump up on the AF  performance as we see on the X-T2 ?

I hesitate to say "should everyone who is considering buying the X-H1 get a grip" as that can be easily misconstrued and we'll end up needing this fella as a moderator.

 

[mkabi]

@Attila Bakos When you were shooting the slow motion videos, what was your shutter speed?

[Attila Bakos]

28 minutes ago, mkabi said:

@Attila Bakos When you were shooting the slow motion videos, what was your shutter speed?

That's not my video, I don't have any Fuji body atm.

[mkabi]

19 minutes ago, Attila Bakos said:

That's not my video, I don't have any Fuji body atm.

Okay then @frontfocus when you are doing the slowmotion tests, please do additional tests like increasing the shutter speed to match the 180 degree rule to the actual frame rate. So if you are planning to shoot 120fps, then try 1/240 - even though it has in camera conforming - I feel that people are setting it at 1/48 because it is recording it at 24fps.

Try various shutter speeds, see if Moire and Aliasing still exist. Thanks in advance.

[KrisAK]

14 hours ago, Stathman said:

Although the AF speed is waaaay faster with DR100, I think it is not so smooth.

Can anyone else see it or my eyes flipped out? 

Yes, even at DR100, it looks herky-jerky. Is that somehow usable? There's a difference between saying that it's less bad at DR100, and saying that CAF for video is actually usable.

Also, I find it disturbing that folks seem to be almost preemptively anticipating problems as inevitable; that they'll later be fixed in firmware as part of Fuji's world-class Kaizen.

My understanding is that Kaizen (the Deming cycle, Toyota Production System, call-it-what-you-will) was meant to discover and prevent flaws like this from being pushed into market in the first place; not to fix errors that were sloppily discovered only after the release.

A more accurate term for what Blackmagic, Sony, and now Fuji and others are doing is the well-known strategy of "Release it Now; Fix it Later."

For $1800, I expected more. (And a headphone jack.)

[Mattias Burling]

Imo there is huge difference between fixing bugs and adding features that wasn't there when announced.

Fuji and BMD does both while some companies does neither. 

[jonpais]

Fanboys can’t tolerate any criticism. Case in point: two X-H1 owners generously offered to do tests - but when simply asked to check for distorted audio; to see whether the touch screen sometimes unintentionally activates recording rather than focusing; or whether the feature that causes an external monitor/recorder to black out when waving a hand in front of the EVF has been resolved - facts that have already been documented and that should be of interest to any filmmaker - they reply that only amateurs use the camera’s built-in pre-amp, or that the camera freezing is part of the DSLR experience. 

[Mattias Burling]

7 hours ago, Attila Bakos said:

Sorry I don't have the originals anymore, and I also sold my X-T2 a few weeks ago. But this should be easy to replicate, if you have a Fuji now.

I tried. Both in standard PP. First one is default and levels set according to the waveform and the other is shadows -2.
I might have done it wrong or something but right now I just don't see big enough of a difference for it to be a big deal to me.

Regular

 

Shadows -2

[Attila Bakos]

@Mattias Burling can you share the source files?

[KitaCam]

5 hours ago, mkabi said:

Okay then @frontfocus when you are doing the slowmotion tests, please do additional tests like increasing the shutter speed to match the 180 degree rule to the actual frame rate. So if you are planning to shoot 120fps, then try 1/240 - even though it has in camera conforming - I feel that people are setting it at 1/48 because it is recording it at 24fps.

Try various shutter speeds, see if Moire and Aliasing still exist. Thanks in advance.

My suspicion is that if shooting at 5 x 24 then a shutter speed of 120 may have been used as that is what the camera seems to default to if you had been shooting 24fps at 1/48th previously. 

[Django]

in other news, Fuji finally released a FF camera.. via firmware update: https://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-gfx-50s-firmware-update-ver-3-00-released/

#kaizen#ftw

[Inazuma]

4 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I tried. Both in standard PP. First one is default and levels set according to the waveform and the other is shadows -2.
I might have done it wrong or something but right now I just don't see big enough of a difference for it to be a big deal to me.

Regular

 

Shadows -2

Perhaps the shadow setting doesn't do anything on the XT20 in video (much like the XPro2)?

 

[Yurolov]

5 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Imo there is huge difference between fixing bugs and adding features that wasn't there when announced.

Fuji and BMD does both while some companies does neither. 

There are really two ways of looking at this and you are choosing to look at it in a positive light; the alternative, and this is me being devil's advocate, is that fuji underdelivers across the board with respect to the hardware & software capabilities of their cameras and tries to solve this is later in firmware updates by 1) adding new features to fully utilise the capabilities of the hardware 2) fixing software issues/bugs and improving the camera from a software perspective - for example with new algorithms.

Manufactures like Sony, on the other hand, are able to provide a fully realized product with their initial offering. By this I mean that they are able to harness the full capabilities of the hardware. 

A simple example is providing 4k on the xpro2 - there is no reason this could not have been done upon release of the camera. 

I think Sony's strategy is better as 1) people are more likely to move to a new model, and 2) sony's products are getting better and better with each new iteration.

Meanwhile, fuji is offering a more expensive camera that can't even come close to the sony's performance in terms of af - in fact, they have gone backwards from the xt2. That's what makes this release all the more laughable. Not only that but it consumes 25% more battery than the xt2 so you are forced to get the battery grip to make it useable. 

I am a huge fan of fuji, but I am passing on this one for sure. If they can't get it right first time then they don't deserve our money. Simple as that.  

 

[Kisaha]

"One of the biggest enigmas surrounding the Fujifilm X-Pro2 is the omission of 4K video. Initially, it seemed that this was to do with not having the necessary heat sink to dissipate the heat produced, like the X-T2 was able to have, and that reasoning made a lot of sense–at least that’s what EIC Chris Gampat was told by Fujifilm’s reps. However, that sort of flew out the window when the smaller X-T20came out and it also had 4K video, again, without the beefy heatsink the X-T2 featured."

and later on by Fujifilm Managers Shugo Kiryu and Shusuke Kozaki.

"We asked users of the X-Pro 1 if they used it for video and 80% of them said no. By cons, of course, you can make high quality videos FHD with the X-Pro 2. But according to our studies users do not expect 4K feature on the X-Pro 2.Technically, we could add this feature with a firmware update but we do not plan to do so in the future."

Go figure..

[Trek of Joy]

1 hour ago, Yurolov said:

Manufactures like Sony, on the other hand, are able to provide a fully realized product with their initial offering. By this I mean that they are able to harness the full capabilities of the hardware. 

This is just patently false. I own the a7r2 and a7s2 in addition to two XT2's, so I can speak from extensive shooting with all of them over the last couple years. I don't want to get into a Sony vs Fuji vs. the world debate, but here's just a few warts off the top of my head. Sony can't figure out lossless compression with its raw files, while literally every other camera manufacturer has. The star eater algrothim still hasn't been addressed. Simple features like a "My Menu" and a toggle between FF/APS-c mode only came with new cameras. The FF/APS-c toggle should have been added to the a7r2, every review pointed out how stupid it was to have to menu dive for a function used so often thanks to the better video on the a7r2, yet nothing. None of the new cameras from the a9 on even have a simple intervalometer, something a cheap, 5-year-old Olympus has. I'm pretty sure the new hardware can support such a simple function in an entry level cam from 2013 can do it. And the app can't do it either, so you're forced to use a kludgy piece of plug-in hardware. Have you used Sony's version of a touchscreen next to the GH5 or even the much hated (on this site) 5dmk4? Its awful. Lets not forget the brilliant cost cutting decision to skimp on hardware and give the a7r2 a UHS-I card slot, giving us glacial write times with supersize files - when competitors at much lower price points have at least one UHS-II slot. And there's the annoying NTSC/PAL warning. Got a NTSC camera and you travel to another country? The camera does nothing until you bypass the message - every single time you turn it on. How hard would it be to not have that piece of stupidity show up? Sony doesn't seem to want to weather seal its cameras or lenses like others in the same price bracket - and various teardowns clearly show that. And the a7III looks like its showing its PDAF array in images with a strong light source - something not fixable in a FW update. Neither is the plastic construction, down spec LCD and EVF in the a7III, cameras at similar price points have better panels and magnesium bodies. I could go on, but calling any camera released in 2018 fully realized is simply being blind to the facts. They all - including Fuji - have issues that don't show up with the limited number of beta testers compared to when it hits the masses and thousands more shooting scenarios. 

I have no doubt Sony could squeeze more AF performance and make software improvements if they wanted to, but they clearly have a different way of doing things - push a camera out and then focus on its replacement. The a7's have seen little else outside of minor bug fixes, major issues get fixed in the next gen model. And before the a7r3 a few months ago, battery life was common in any Sony bashing thread, its not like they've used amazing batteries for years in E-mount bodies, despite years of complaints. Tinker with any Sony body and a XT2, one is clearly built much better than the other, and its not the Sony.

Since this is an XH1 thread, can anyone check the EVF refresh with the camera set to boost mode and tracking subject at the highest stills burst rate of 14fps? The release said it was faster than the XT2 - which is already really fast and close to blackout free.  Thanks.

Chris

[Vladimir]

57 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

2) sony's products are getting better and better with each new iteration.

completely agree here with you. and its great. its pushing both company forward. as a a7s/x-t2 user I'm totally ok with that. 

but for now I'm selling my e-mount lens to get x-h1 to pair with x-t2 . if Fuji will deliever Eterna and Flog to previous model then it's better to keep it as a second unit. and if not - to sell it and wait for the next iteration of technology race) and for our common happiness and satisfaction its better to wish some good luck to Fuji ( because sony can beat the Fuji and Fuji - doesn't )

 

for this iteration - i'm definitely want a new x-t2 with ibis) nor a sony or panasonyc cant beat fujis color science or awb (which is kinda important when u want to pack it all into 100-150mbit/s).

[Yurolov]

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

I don't want to get into a Sony vs Fuji vs. the world debate,

I am not saying Sony is better. I would never claim that. A lot of what you mentioned though is to do with ergonomics which I agree for Sony are pretty bad. But only a new model can solve ergo issues.

My whole point was whether the fuji firmware philosophy is really just a mask for incompetence. If they update the XH1's continuous video autofocus then clearly it is a mask, as the current autofocus is worse than that of the xt2s. It should really have been better from the start and not require a firmware update. 

I was playing devil's advocate. For me, I would not buy a product that is imperfect from the get go. They can add all the new features they want but the question remains why weren't these features included in the initial release. And by the time they release these new updates will most people have already moved on?

  

[Vladimir]

11 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

My whole point was whether the fuji firmware philosophy is really just a mask for incompetence. 

it can be a mask for anything. for ex. for a contract with sensor supplier (to not implement 4K until some certain date). who knows? but point is Fuji works on fw to a certain point that is way higher than sony's one (still Panasonic doing better job in this category) )