Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

[Castorp]

Isn’t the main advantage with the two different modes to have different settings? I understand if using physical controls; a lot of operations are necessary, but is it the case that if using the silent touch controls the camera remembers aperture, shutter speed and iso set for video? So it doesn’t matter what the shutter and aperture dials are set to? It overrides them? That would be good.

Then there is separate focus settings and AWB settings. Not to mention picture controls. I can’t use them on my X-Pro 2 but even if I could I would have to change a lot of things before I would press that record button.

I rather like the idea of having two “cameras”, two completely separated modes. And it’s different from custom settings which I don’t like because I never remember what does what. To simply have a ? and a ? makes sense to me.

[BTM_Pix]

46 minutes ago, Castorp said:

Isn’t the main advantage with the two different modes to have different settings? I understand if using physical controls; a lot of operations are necessary, but is it the case that if using the silent touch controls the camera remembers aperture, shutter speed and iso set for video? So it doesn’t matter what the shutter and aperture dials are set to? It overrides them? That would be good.

Then there is separate focus settings and AWB settings. Not to mention picture controls. I can’t use them on my X-Pro 2 but even if I could I would have to change a lot of things before I would press that record button.

I rather like the idea of having two “cameras”, two completely separated modes. And it’s different from custom settings which I don’t like because I never remember what does what. To simply have a ? and a ? makes sense to me.

I don't necessarily think its a bad way of working myself either. It has caught me out a couple of times on the X-T2 when I've left it in video mode, brought the camera up to my eye, pressed the shutter and not been greeted by the comforting sound of a shutter firing though that serves me right for arriving so late on jobs! 

If my suspicion/crackpot theory about it being the reason behind the 720p recording limitation when controlling it from the app is correct though, then its far more of a drawback in that scenario.

A way of controlling it over wifi when its in video mode (even at the expense of it streaming a lower frame rate or resolution to the app if needs be) but the actual camera being able to record in all of its formats should definitely be on their to do list.

Though not before they've fixed the AF on it and done some of their kaizen loveliness and given us Eterna and/or internal FLOG on the X-T2  

[Andrew Reid]

@BTM_Pix No power grip yet but if I continue to enjoy it as much as I have so far, will consider it. Maybe the 18-135mm as well, which would make for a nice run & gun zoom.

The 23mm f2 and 35mm F2 primes are so small and light... I think the fuji lenses are a strength over Panasonic and Olympus... Super 35 for a start, yet just as small (mostly)

Interested to see what you get up to with the app and wifi.

Has anybody come across any Fuji LUTs for F-LOG yet? I read there were some. However, such is the interest in the camera, 62 pages on this thread alone is a bit of a haystack to go looking in for LUTs

Also has anybody tried the Canon EF / Nikon adapters with AF for Fuji X-mount on this camera yet?

[BTM_Pix]

16 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Interested to see what you get up to with the app and wifi.

I looked at it very briefly last week and managed to find the connection method but its a lot more buttoned up than Panasonic.

Early days yet though

16 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Has anybody come across any Fuji LUTs for F-LOG yet? I read there were some. However, such is the interest in the camera, 62 pages on this thread alone is a bit of a haystack to go looking in for LUTs

The latest pack from Fuji has the Eterna one in it now.

[Attila Bakos]

29 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Has anybody come across any Fuji LUTs for F-LOG yet? I read there were some. However, such is the interest in the camera, 62 pages on this thread alone is a bit of a haystack to go looking in for LUTs

Fuji already gives you Eterna, I built my own LUTs for the rest. They are created for the X-T2, but they seem to work with the X-H1 as well. Remember to switch your clips to video range, that's what the LUTs expect.

 

[Trek of Joy]

9 hours ago, Castorp said:

Isn’t the main advantage with the two different modes to have different settings? I understand if using physical controls; a lot of operations are necessary, but is it the case that if using the silent touch controls the camera remembers aperture, shutter speed and iso set for video? So it doesn’t matter what the shutter and aperture dials are set to? It overrides them? That would be good.

Then there is separate focus settings and AWB settings. Not to mention picture controls. I can’t use them on my X-Pro 2 but even if I could I would have to change a lot of things before I would press that record button.

I rather like the idea of having two “cameras”, two completely separated modes. And it’s different from custom settings which I don’t like because I never remember what does what. To simply have a ? and a ? makes sense to me.

Unfortunately that doesn't happen - at least with the XT2 (the XH1 shares the same controls), whatever your settings are, they carry over between stills and video modes. The ISO and SS control dials have to be moved to change settings. My solution is just just carry two actual cameras or to shoot with the top dial set to 'T' - so you can change SS with one of the control dials. You can scroll through them much faster using that method. For all of my frustrations with Sony, I can stab the record button at any time and start shooting video. If you're not shooting stills and video at the same time its less of a hassle. But I shoot for travel, so virtually everywhere I take a photo, I shoot some video as well.

Chris

37 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Has anybody come across any Fuji LUTs for F-LOG yet? I read there were some. However, such is the interest in the camera, 62 pages on this thread alone is a bit of a haystack to go looking in for LUTs

Fuji's LUT's are here: http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/lut/

[webrunner5]

On 3/22/2018 at 12:45 AM, IronFilm said:

Why don't people on dpreview rip into him every time he posts?!

Well sad to say other than some of the Reviewers, he is one of the few people that knows much of anything about video on DPR, bullshit or not. It is a Photography site, but few give much of a crap about video on there. But I see more and more articles and threads on video on there now..

[Castorp]

17 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Unfortunately that doesn't happen - at least with the XT2 (the XH1 shares the same controls), whatever your settings are, they carry over between stills and video modes. The ISO and SS control dials have to be moved to change settings. My solution is just just carry two actual cameras or to shoot with the top dial set to 'T' - so you can change SS with one of the control dials. You can scroll through them much faster using that method. For all of my frustrations with Sony, I can stab the record button at any time and start shooting video. 

They share controls but not exactly? The X-T2 doesn’t have the separate touch controls for video right? Would seem to me that this would store settings different from the physical controls. Perhaps somebody who has the camera can clarify? 

I didn’t get around to comment on your pictures. Thanks for sharing! You certainly need raw for that kind of look. Ultra wide angle, with raised shadows and lowered highlights is far from my cup of tea  I’m afraid.  I don’t like when the lens is strongly present in a photograph. Likewise I don’t like when I can see the editing.

Here the deep shadow, the angle and the posture of the man makes for a different story than if the deep immeasurably heavy shadow wasn’t there. Unnerving, unsure, a bit uneasy. Enough to tell a different story from the usual CDF riff.

[jonpais]

Low light performance, vs a7 III. Two of the chief reasons I would consider switching to a larger sensor format are low light performance and superior AF. Max finds around a 2-stop difference, although normally, a one-stop difference is to be expected between APS-C and full frame. Max is using the Eterna film simulation on the Fuji, PP1 (movie) on the Sony.

I  realize many here like the film simulations found on the X-T2, but I always found them a bit too contrasty for video. Eterna looks like an improvement over what was offered before, though Max finds it's still too contrasty. Generally, I find Max to be pretty objective, but if anyone here owns both the Sony (the a7r III I imagine) and the Fuji, I'd be interested in seeing another comparison.

 

[jonpais]

Some commentors are asking which lenses Max used. According to DxOmark, the Fuji 56mm f/1.2 R has a T stop of 2.1, so I suppose that’s relevant. Waiting to hear back from Max. But fairly certain that’s not the lens he used. 

[Trek of Joy]

3 hours ago, jonpais said:

Some commentors are asking which lenses Max used. According to DxOmark, the Fuji 56mm f/1.2 R has a T stop of 2.1, so I suppose that’s relevant. Waiting to hear back from Max. But fairly certain that’s not the lens he used. 

Both cameras have zooms as pictured - looks like the 16-55/2.8 and the 24-70GM - in the comments he says, "I did try my best to match them if you didn’t see the beginning section. Both are set to F4 and around 50mm full frame equiv."

The larger sensor certainly shows its advantage in this video.

Chris

7 hours ago, Castorp said:

They share controls but not exactly? The X-T2 doesn’t have the separate touch controls for video right? Would seem to me that this would store settings different from the physical controls. Perhaps somebody who has the camera can clarify? 

Forgot about the silent touch controls. That would be different. But you still have to move the mode dial from stills to video.

[Robert Collins]

3 hours ago, jonpais said:

Some commentors are asking which lenses Max used. According to DxOmark, the Fuji 56mm f/1.2 R has a T stop of 2.1, so I suppose that’s relevant. Waiting to hear back from Max. But fairly certain that’s not the lens he used. 

Its pretty well known that Fuji does a 2/3 stop fudge of its iso to make it look better as illustrated by his exposures.

I am a little skeptical though of his claim of a 2 stop difference based on essentially 'Sony' sensors with a one stop difference.

[Luke Mason]

4 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Its pretty well known that Fuji does a 2/3 stop fudge of its iso to make it look better as illustrated by his exposures.

I am a little skeptical though of his claim of a 2 stop difference based on essentially 'Sony' sensors with a one stop difference.

I think 2 stop difference is plausible, considering A7III has a brand new BSI sensor and 1.5x larger photosite, 4K oversampled from 6K while X-T2 oversamples from 5K.

BSI significantly boosts sensitivity/SNR while stacking boosts readout performance (both used in A9)

[webrunner5]

7 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

Its pretty well known that Fuji does a 2/3 stop fudge of its iso to make it look better as illustrated by his exposures.

I am a little skeptical though of his claim of a 2 stop difference based on essentially 'Sony' sensors with a one stop difference.

Why not, you just stated Fuji fudged the ISO almost a stop, and a FF is pretty well known to have a 1 stop advantage over APSC. So there is nearly 2 stops right there. Max stated it might be even more than that in reality. Sony sensors are just crazy good for low light. No real surprises here. Fuji X Trans sensors are not known for their low light ability to start with.

[jonpais]

 

[Andrew Reid]

13 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Why not, you just stated Fuji fudged the ISO almost a stop, and a FF is pretty well known to have a 1 stop advantage over APSC. So there is nearly 2 stops right there. Max stated it might be even more than that in reality. Sony sensors are just crazy good for low light. No real surprises here. Fuji X Trans sensors are not known for their low light ability to start with.

Not sure how they "fudged" the ISO? Care to elaborate?

One thing I do like is the exposure meter is accurate in both standard picture profile modes AND LOG mode, unlike on a Sony where you have to guesstimate 1.5 to 2 stops to the right for S-LOG.

F-LOG comes out perfectly exposed in aperture priority mode with exposure comp. bang in the middle at 0... Same with Eterna and Velvia, etc.

As for low light, actually X-trans sensors have been known consistently for their leading low light performance in their class.

It is on par with best Sony APS-C camera in low light (A6500).

Compared to my Leica SL the X-H1 looks a full 2 stops cleaner at ISO 1600 in the shadows when both are set to record LOG, 4K, Super 35.

I expect the Sony A7 III to be very good indeed, but not by 2 stops.

This is easily a ISO 12,800 camera in 4K and F-LOG... Which you cannot quite say about GH5... And with GH5S you lose the stabilisation.

[webrunner5]

59 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Not sure how they fudged the ISO.

 

Did you watch the Video?? Max had to raise the ISO 2/3 of a stop to get it even with the Sony! It was dark as hell OOC. He couldn't do it 6400 to 6400. That tells me Fuji lies like hell about actual ISO values. I know everyone fudges it in some way, but nearly a Whole Stop, come on. The X-H1 is not as sensitive as Fuji claims it is, plain and simple. Now the ISO 12,800 on it, you might be right.  And if true that is all most people, even on here need to get the job done. You are allowed to shoot in the daytime and buy lights also! I am sure you know more about it than I do. Just not interested in buying it.

  I don't follow the X-H1, well if you are on here you sort of have to. And if everyone on here that says they are going to buy one does, Fuji will sell 300 million of them! I am not going to buy a new camera system, let alone a APSC one, and all new lenses at my age. I am done with m4/3, and Never have owned a APSC camera, well maybe Sigma Merrills count?  I have had several APSH Canon ones. Its full Frame or nothing or bigger for me now. Back to the days when I was younger.There was really not a lot of Great APSC lenses made, now I will give Fuji credit, and even Samsung for some good ones, not like FF has though.

Stabilization, I never owned a camera with it in my life other than my Cell Phones. And even then most don't have it in 4k. And you are just now buying cameras with it. How did you EVER shoot before. Poor me. Name me one Cine camera with IBIS in it. And I think that the GH5s is the closest thing to a Cine Camera you can buy for hell half the price of one. If they would have changed the form factor it would be one. It is the buy of a lifetime the way I see it. A Poor mans EVA1. Other than Raw, and that is external unlike the C200, , ehh what are you gaining other than a better body and with a speed booster on the GH5s it is even a bigger sensor. I know there is more, but not 3 times more money worth more. Not many speed boosters I know that are EF to anything for the EVA1? I guess you can use the PL adapter to adapt another adapter, you get my point. Yikes doubt that works out too well.

Well l lied, I had a Olympus EM1 that had IBIS. But I used it on a tripod for birding all the time and you need to turn it off in that situation.

[Andrew Reid]

Max jumped to the conclusion as did you that it was ISO sensitivity causing the darker image.

Look deeper and you can find a ton of other reasons for the difference.

1. It could be that his software interprets the luma range of the Fuji files incorrectly, clipping the first 16 brightness levels

2. It could have been the T-stop of the lens. Different lenses at same aperture are not always the same brightness

3. The highlights are preserved on the Fuji shot, which suggests Eterna is a very different picture profile to the one he was using on the Sony

So if you explore more, and exclude all 3 of those variables, then you are informed.

Everything else is just "lets blame ISO, because that seems the most obvious".

I have not got an A7 III yet, only just spent $3k on the A7R III! But when I am back from Barcelona, I'll do my own tests.

The X-H1 is a seriously good low light camera in my opinion.

Also bear in mind that Max just got back from his Nth Sony PR meet and greet, shaking hands with Sony people and playing with the new camera. Therefore, Max is being hyperbolic talking up the Sony over the other camera. He says that "if you go into a low light situation" with the Fuji, you will have raise the ISO "MUCH HIGHER!!"

Fuck off.

Is two thirds of a stop MUCH higher? No. It is an even smaller jump than from ISO 800 to 1600.

More like 800 vs 1250.

And that is allowing for Eterna processing the raw sensor data 'darker' to preserve highlights.

[Luke Mason]

@Andrew Reid Max is right, it's a well-known fact in the Fuji community that Fuji cameras overrate their ISO values, causing both stills (RAW and JPG) and videos to be darker (around 2/3 stop).

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Max jumped to the conclusion as did you that it was ISO sensitivity causing the darker image

 

 

I don't think he did, but it doesn't matter. I am not going to buy the Fuji and you are not going to buy the Sony. Hell nothing wrong with that. We have different likes and looks we like. Hell I just bought the original A7s because I like the look of it better than the new ones, and well it was cheap! That is good for all of us. Hell give Sony some credit for making Fuji and others pick up the pace on the X-H1 or loose sales. Video is taking off big time. And if you aren't sort of up to speed your ass is gone. I am glad Fuji is doing it. They have a lot of followers, rightfully so. And I can also see why IBIS is a big deal to most of the people that will buy it. They have finally caught up with a Olympus E-3 4/3 camera.

When Canon comes out with their FF Mirrorless maybe next month we will all be buying it. It will be the best thing since sliced bread, and hell it might be! I know @mercer will be drooling over it.  I was telling Jon that I have a hunch that I think it will have a snout just like the new Sigma Quattro cameras do, the SD, HD,  so they can use the EF lenses on it without having to buy an adapter. I sure as hell would if I was Canon. It could even house ND filters in the snout. But it may have to be too long, I don't know. Why the hell make all new FF lenses. There is a bazillion of them out there.  Hell I might be re united  again with them. I have owned a bunch of them over the years. They were the leader for years for a damn good reason. They just seemed to have lost their way on consumer video. I don't get it in the long run. I will take money I don't care how I get it. They have to wake up someday.

Cine cameras have to be a loosing business for how few you sell compared to the R&D and production cost. Sony has to be the Only one that is even close to making money on it with all their Broadcast stuff. They Own that market, and have for years and years.