Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, Luke Mason said:

@Andrew Reid Max is right, it's a well-known fact in the Fuji community that Fuji cameras overrate their ISO values, causing both stills (RAW and JPG) and videos to be darker (around 2/3 stop).

It is not that they "steal" per se, they just have different ways to measure ISO.

The most abdusrd measurements are in the m43 camp.

Another first for the well know discontinued camera  

This is by another Max review by the way, for a Fuji camera.

[eyesuncloudedphoto]

On the matter of "ISO cheating", perhaps the following article would be helpful: 

https://photographylife.com/does-fuji-cheat-with-its-sensors

Please take note of Iliah Borg's (author of RawDigger) entries in the comment section. 

 

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, Luke Mason said:

@Andrew Reid Max is right, it's a well-known fact in the Fuji community that Fuji cameras overrate their ISO values, causing both stills (RAW and JPG) and videos to be darker (around 2/3 stop).

Who cares?

And in F-LOG, is the situation the same vs Sony? I doubt it.

[Prandi]

@webrunner

It's about time that you have a Fuji in your hand and are suffering under real circumstances. Unfortunately you only write negative about the x-h1 although you have no idea how good it really is. Otherwise it would be better to write the whole thing in a Sony thread.
Sorry ... but you've written a few times that you'll never buy a Fuji, so what are you going to do with it?

I do not write in a Sony or Pana forum if I do not use any of these brands .. Sorry

[Yurolov]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Who cares?

And in F-LOG, is the situation the same vs Sony? I doubt it.

People who need more than iso equivalent 6400 would care, I'm guessing. And even at iso equivalent 6400 the fuji isn't super clean. So I wouldn't say it is a great low light camera, but it certainly isn't no slouch either. 

Max claims eterna gives the best results for the Fuji. Take from that what you will. 

 

[webrunner5]

5 hours ago, Prandi said:

@webrunner

It's about time that you have a Fuji in your hand and are suffering under real circumstances. Unfortunately you only write negative about the x-h1 although you have no idea how good it really is. Otherwise it would be better to write the whole thing in a Sony thread.
Sorry ... but you've written a few times that you'll never buy a Fuji, so what are you going to do with it?

I do not write in a Sony or Pana forum if I do not use any of these brands .. Sorry

I have just as much right to say anything that is true about a Fuji than you do. Fuji sort of bends the rules a bit on ISO, it is fact. Plus I don't buy APSC cameras. Waste of time to me. I see no real gain to them.  When you state the truth on a camera I am not gong to dispute it. I have all the time in the world to research what I am going to say before I say it. So I back up x amount of stuff up with links if I can.

There has been some Bullshit statements about the X-H1 ehh both ways, right and wrong. Fuji is not the second coming of Christ trust me. I am sure it will probably take pictures and video just fine. But just not at my house. I am sure it will be welcomed with open arms in yours. And that is fine.

If people, me, make silly statements in the Sony forum please bring it up.I post on Every forum. I have owned just bout every camera brand there is over time. I even have a little piss ass Fuji P&S I have had for 15 years. I would hope, and I am sure others would also like to have the truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God, and well Andrew also. We are all here to learn, exchange stuff. I just hope it to be honest.

I would hope you do write in forums you don't own cameras in. There is interesting news everyday that apply to other brands. Experiences of people you know, shoot with, work with. I own 3 different brands of cameras. There is no One camera. Hell this Sony A7s I just bought is the first Sony camera I have had in 4 years. And on paper not much is not known about the A7s so I am not going to write anything about it here. It is old news here. But I am a big Sony fan Sensors wise. Hell they are in damn near every camera other than Canon FF ones and Fuji.. And they might be in the cheaper ones of Fuji for all I know?

I think unless a person has a bag full of Fuji lenses I would wait 2 more weeks to see what Canon, Nikon, heck even BM might spring on us at CES soon.

[Robert Collins]

Seems to me that a bit of 'camera bashing' is a necessary evil in every camera thread.

And it seems that the X-H1 has come through 63 pages of BS pretty much unscathed, so that Fuji is really onto something here, and that this camera is really growing on people.

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, Robert Collins said:

Seems to me that a bit of 'camera bashing' is a necessary evil in every camera thread.

And it seems that the X-H1 has come through 63 pages of BS pretty much unscathed, so that Fuji is really onto something here, and that this camera is really growing on people.

Yeah but talk is cheap. And that camera Ain't.   Same with the Sony A7 mk III.  But they all seem to be at 2000 bucks like it or not.

I sure would hate to buy one and Canon comes out with a Holly Shit FF Mirrorless in 2 weeks and Oh Boy!    But knowing Canon you guys are probably safe.

[frontfocus]

4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Fuji sort of bends the rules a bit on ISO, it is fact

an alternative fact, since there is no rule bending, it's all within the standards. 

but why even discuss such an unimportant detail? 

[BTM_Pix]

It is definitely 'a thing' with Fuji.

Precisely how much of an issue it causes depends on what you are doing with it.

Just to illustrate eliminating a couple of variables (sensor size and lens), I've just done this little comparison shot for you with an X-T2 against another APS-C camera (Nikon D500) and the same lens (Sigma 35mm f1.4 ART) in manual exposure (ISO200, f1.4, 1/800th). Profile wise, they are both set to Standard which, of course, is not completely common but those differences aren't the major player here.

The top picture is the jpeg from the D500 and the bottom one is the jpeg from the X-T2 and the one in the middle is the X-T2 with a 2/3 stop boost in post.

I deal with this issue when I'm working in stadiums under floodlights when I'll set a manual exposure on my Nikon bodies which will be common across all of them but the same setting on the Fujis will look underexposed. I leave it as is though (as I don't want to reduce shutter speed just to make it look 'right') and I have an automatic preset on import to do the adjustment because I know that (as in this example) I can pull it up without any discernible noise.

So, for me, whilst its 'a thing' it isn't an issue and, of course, there is one obvious advantage when you think about it....

[Inazuma]

8 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I have just as much right to say anything that is true about a Fuji than you do. Fuji sort of bends the rules a bit on ISO, it is fact. Plus I don't buy APSC cameras. Waste of time to me. I see no real gain to them.  When you state the truth on a camera I am not gong to dispute it. I have all the time in the world to research what I am going to say before I say it. So I back up x amount of stuff up with links if I can.

There has been some Bullshit statements about the X-H1 ehh both ways, right and wrong. Fuji is not the second coming of Christ trust me. I am sure it will probably take pictures and video just fine. But just not at my house. I am sure it will be welcomed with open arms in yours. And that is fine.

If people, me, make silly statements in the Sony forum please bring it up.I post on Every forum. I have owned just bout every camera brand there is over time. I even have a little piss ass Fuji P&S I have had for 15 years. I would hope, and I am sure others would also like to have the truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God, and well Andrew also. We are all here to learn, exchange stuff. I just hope it to be honest.

I would hope you do write in forums you don't own cameras in. There is interesting news everyday that apply to other brands. Experiences of people you know, shoot with, work with. I own 3 different brands of cameras. There is no One camera. Hell this Sony A7s I just bought is the first Sony camera I have had in 4 years. And on paper not much is not known about the A7s so I am not going to write anything about it here. It is old news here. But I am a big Sony fan Sensors wise. Hell they are in damn near every camera other than Canon FF ones and Fuji.. And they might be in the cheaper ones of Fuji for all I know?

I think unless a person has a bag full of Fuji lenses I would wait 2 more weeks to see what Canon, Nikon, heck even BM might spring on us at CES soon.

I mean of course everyone has a right to share our opinions here but it just seems like a waste of time to continually write about a camera you have no intention of getting. Fair enough pointing out flaws - those are useful things to post about. But it gets a bit weird when you keep harping on about them as if you have some kind of vendetta. Especially when you start resorting to hyperbole like "Fuji is not the second coming of Christ trust me", which no one even alluded to.

Now the truth is we have no idea why Fuji's interpretation of ISO is so different. I need to do more investigating but I believe the DR setting does have an effect on this. 

[Andrew Reid]

I don't really think the ISO interpretation has to be a negative thing... On the contrary, it seems you get more latitude to play with and adjusting the F-LOG or Eterna image in post to bring out the shadows by 2/3rds of a stop is trivial, with hardly any loss of image quality.

[Kisaha]

I do not believe that is a good or bad thing, it is what it is, but the closest numbers are to reality the most helps with a lot of practical things.

Imagine if 12 o'clock was different for each one of us (which it is, in a sense!), certainly numbers have a definite and certain way of influence our lives and workflows.

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, Inazuma said:

Now the truth is we have no idea why Fuji's interpretation of ISO is so different. I need to do more investigating but I believe the DR setting does have an effect on this. 

When you do a Google search you will find the answer to your question. Go down to the conclusion and to the authors statement, and about Iliah Borg who knows just about everything about camera performance, and who invented Rawdigger,, you will find your answer.

https://photographylife.com/does-fuji-cheat-with-its-sensors

And the Christ statement comes off true to the people that are Not going to buy one. For a site that is pretty much devoted to Video, going goo gah over a camera, that on paper that is about the weakest video camera out there brand wise other than Pentax, Just because it has pretty colors, not Cine like, just pretty, is Pretty bonkers to me and others I have talked to on here. There are probably 5 people on here that even own a Fuji lens. So yeah it does seem like the second coming that you are going to get rid of your Canon, Sony, Panny, etc. and buy a bag full of Fuji lenses, and is well, you know what it is.. Now if you are going to start making a living as a Wedding Photographer sure that might work.

 

 

6 hours ago, frontfocus said:

an alternative fact, since there is no rule bending, it's all within the standards. 

but why even discuss such an unimportant detail? 

2/3 of a stop is Unimportant in video, really, your kidding aren't you. That 2.8 lens you have now is 3.5. Nah hell it doesn't matter.

[frontfocus]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

2/3 of a stop is Unimportant in video, really, your kidding aren't you. That 2.8 lens you have now is 3.5. Nah hell it doesn't matter.

wtf are you even talking about. the physical dimensions of the lens are unaffected. 

If you want your picture brighter, you can increase the ISO. But all your talk about ISO cheating just shows, that you have no idea about the iso standard. Setting up a modern camera to underexpose actually makes a lot of sense, if you would do a comparison over the last decade you would see, that all manufacturers are going the route. 

[Inazuma]

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

And the Christ statement comes off true to the people that are Not going to buy one. For a site that is pretty much devoted to Video, going goo gah over a camera, that on paper that is about the weakest video camera out there brand wise other than Pentax, Just because it has pretty colors, not Cine like, just pretty, is Pretty bonkers to me and others I have talked to on here. There are probably 5 people on here that even own a Fuji lens. So yeah it does seem like the second coming that you are going to get rid of your Canon, Sony, Panny, etc. and buy a bag full of Fuji lenses, and is well, you know what it is.. Now if you are going to start making a living as a Wedding Photographer sure that might work.

This is a video forum but that doesn’t mean everyone here shoots only video or has the same priorities. I agree it’s a bad choice for longform video shooters but there are a bunch of reasons this is a great choice for hybrid shooters. Want an EVF and IBIS? You can forget Canikon. Want a larger sensor than m43 with more megapixels and better DR/low light? You can forget Panolympus. Want sharp 1080p and non-dimming LCD in 4K? You can forget the Sony a6xxx series. I can also flip it though. Want smooth autoexposure transitions, reliable autofocus in video and fast lenses that don’t make a racket? Forget Fuji. 

[webrunner5]

2 hours ago, Inazuma said:

This is a video forum but that doesn’t mean everyone here shoots only video or has the same priorities. I agree it’s a bad choice for longform video shooters but there are a bunch of reasons this is a great choice for hybrid shooters. Want an EVF and IBIS? You can forget Canikon. Want a larger sensor than m43 with more megapixels and better DR/low light? You can forget Panolympus. Want sharp 1080p and non-dimming LCD in 4K? You can forget the Sony a6xxx series. I can also flip it though. Want smooth autoexposure transitions, reliable autofocus in video and fast lenses that don’t make a racket? Forget Fuji. 

You make some good points I can't deny that. No such thing as the perfect camera, especially for everyone.

4 hours ago, frontfocus said:

wtf are you even talking about. the physical dimensions of the lens are unaffected. 

If you want your picture brighter, you can increase the ISO. But all your talk about ISO cheating just shows, that you have no idea about the iso standard. Setting up a modern camera to underexpose actually makes a lot of sense, if you would do a comparison over the last decade you would see, that all manufacturers are going the route. 

Ever heard of ETTR? I think your thought process is ass backwards. Underexposure is about the worse thing you can ever do. You can't get back what you never had.

And I am not talking about physical specifications. The higher you go in ISO the shitter it looks, and Fuji is making you do it just to be where you Should have been to start with..

[webrunner5]

But yeah I can see what Fuji is trying to do, lower the noise floor. That sort of helps on the Photo side but not on the video side, especially F log. It is not the worse thing in the world but it still is not helping in the long run in more challenging situations which creep up shooting video in low light. It is just not as ideal as it ought to be. The X Trans sensor is better colors wise, but it or not so hot at low light. They have made probably a good compromise decision to keep Fuji fans happy. Great colors and pretty good low light. Probably the opposite of early Sony's mindset.

[jzagaja]

Is it possible control X-H1 through gimbal or lanc controller? One hand operation on e.g. bike):

1. electronic manual focus
2. power zoom
3. on/off
4. trigger (not via jack port)

Blackmagic Micro had nice interface for that. Why not through USB interface?

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, jzagaja said:

Is it possible control X-H1 through gimbal or lanc controller? One hand operation on e.g. bike):

1. electronic manual focus
2. power zoom
3. on/off
4. trigger (not via jack port)

Blackmagic Micro had nice interface for that. Why not through USB interface?

Unfortunately not.

For auto-focus (not manual focus) and stop/start you can use their app but even then it comes with that massive caveat of only being able to record 720p as when it comes to wifi and video, Fuji cameras are unable to walk and chew gum at the same time.

The USB options are as a lightroom plug in but that is stills only.

Its a pity they offer such woeful remote options, particularly as that cheap new 15-45 power zoom lens with OIS would be useful on a gimbal.