Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

[Kisaha]

54 minutes ago, Django said:

 

No offense but this is BS. There are a lot more than a few people making money with 8-bit cameras. From YouTubers, to wedding/corporate/commercial videographers, R&G, indie film etc.. one could argue 8-bit is "the normal thing".

Not sure what you consider the "industry" but there is now a whole new digital platform outside of broadcast television that doesn't care about any old "standards". (which btw is what.. BBC/EBU standards?)

Even cinema doesn't really care.. Soderbergh's next movie was shot entirely on iPhone 7+ and just premiered at Berlin Film festival last month..

Anyways i sense trolling.. because we all know only a single mirrorless/dslr camera exists on the market today that shoots 10-bit internally.  

So.. just get that or pony up for a pro video cam. Easy.

 

In fact, cable TV stations here require BBC/EBU standards, and this is the norm in EU, I know because I did sound on a couple of this last year. Most terrestrial channels ask for 4:2:2 8bit, but most of them are not very anal about it (a couple of years ago a C100 was enough), but on another 2 shows on private stations, they requested 10 bit, so we shot with GH5. A few other jobs I did this year needed top specs as well (a feature documentary we shot C300mkII, and a couple of shorts with Ursa mini pro), and this were just medium to low budgeted jobs. 

I do not thing that this conversation is relevant here though. Different tools and different needs. The @Alt Shoo expressed his opinion that this specific tool isn't right for his intended use. No one should have been offended by it.

This joke about Soderbergh's film will go on forever I guess. If you feel confident do your work with an iPhone 7+, be my guest, no one will judge you, and I support every artistic choice (my favorite films of all time are Italian neo realistic films and indies of all kinds from around the world), but this is not a serious argument for a dozen of reasons, thoroughly discussed on similar threads, or in all the other threads that this arguments out of the blue appears to bring off topic comments and confusion (e.g the thread about the Canon's, which suddenly became an iPhone Vs all the cameras challenge).

If I cared about photo and video, and I have  to choose between an iPhone 7 or a X-H1, I would choose the latter, in every possible way.

[sam]

4 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

 (e.g the thread about the Canon's, which suddenly became an iPhone Vs all the cameras challenge).

fun isn't it?!  now that phones can be used in the same sentence as cinema!

just wait till someone makes an app that simulates kowas, cookes, hawk vlites etc.

[Kisaha]

1 minute ago, sam said:

fun isn't it?!  now that phones can be used in the same sentence as cinema!

just wait till someone makes an app that simulates kowas, cookes, hawk vlites etc.

I do not know your age, but its the same story since the beginning of time.

It is fun, sure, do you know anyone do not want to pay 1000$ and have a phone/gaming machine/media player/cinema camera/photo camera/sound recorder/coffee maker on his pocket??! Even though you top the game a bit with the Cookes (especially).

This conversation happens now, because the first mobiles we had, were the size of your laptop, and barely could make phone calls. 

We had some political prisoners here, some of them the greatest artists of my country (sculptures, painters, poets) and the only way to express themselves were 1) carving coal from fires they could find 2) the occasional wood from those said fires 3) writing on packet of cigarettes. They had needs they had to express, and they used whatever they could. 

Sod could use his arse's hole as a pin hole camera, and that would be in all major festivals for sure, probably could have won some as well. When one is "no one" shooting an iPhone is the same like the dozens of millions shooting on their iPhones on youtube.

Also, you put those two words in the same sentence, negating all the arguments I made, and from the hastiness of your reply, I guess you didn't even bother to read my post! but I would like to add another point in your argument (because I am such a nice guy!), I would add an older film made by an iPhone, by an arguably excellent director (his first films especially), that shot a 30min film in 2010-2011 with 150.000$ (with inflation that is more with todays standards) 

http://entertainment.time.com/2011/10/26/park-chan-wooks-night-fishing-the-future-of-cell-phone-cinema/

 

 

[Django]

25 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

 

I do not thing that this conversation is relevant here though. Different tools and different needs. The @Alt Shoo expressed his opinion that this specific tool isn't right for his intended use. No one should have been offended by it.

2

sorry but no, he didn't say 8-bit isn't the right tool for his intended use, he claimed "fact remains these aren’t the requirements for any serious and aspiring professional in this industry" which implies 8-bit cameras cannot be considered serious professional tools for videography. i find that statement indeed offensive/inflammatory/ignorant.

as for the point about soderbergh, it was just to illustrate that "standards" don't mean much even in cinema. and btw he isn't the first to do it. george lucas shot star wars AOTC on a 8-bit Sony in 2002 as pointed out here recently. movie grossed $650 million.

 anyways, the fact remains if you need a 10-bit camera, it's either GH5 or 10-bit video camera. not much point debating it in any other current mirrorless/ dslr  thread imo.

[Trek of Joy]

Plenty of people do paid work with 8-bit material. I've shot a number of events and done a few cheap/free broadcast commercials. All were 8-bit, and I go back to the 5d2 in like 2008 or so. All of the spec was either 720/60p or 1080/30p and a minimum bitrate of 50mbps. I've never shot 10-bit or more outside of tinkering with a C300 and a Red a few times. Scratch that -  I had a BMPCC for awhile, so I did shoot some raw/prores. But I never did any paid work with it because the workflow didn't jive with my run-and-gun shooting style.

People keep repeating things like Netflix of BBC standards, which in most cases apply to them - not everyone. I know people that have shot stuff for Discovery, Nat geo and so on with gear below their published standards. If you're doing stuff for broadcast, then it might be an issue, but if you're shooting weddings or TV spots, its not an issue.

I never understand why people criticize specs from their own bubble. If you want a 10-bit camera, this isn't for you. If you want to shoot for 3 straight hours, this isn't the camera for you. Move on. Why keep repeating the same numbnut argument and clogging up this thread?

Back to the XH1- I absolutely love Eterna. 24p looks beautiful. I'm much more excited about this camera than the A7III. It looks like a winner. I'm looking forward to mine arriving soon.

Chris

[Kisaha]

I agree with all of you! not a lot of people need 10bit, and the vast amount of the masses do not need nothing else than their mid-tier smartphones camera [just a small minority owns top iPhones phones anyway https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/disappointing-response-to-iphone-x-forces-apple-to-halve-production/articleshow/62705797.cms that affects others too, because Sony had budgeted 120-160.000.000 sensors, and Samsung 40.000.000 OLED screens for this mobile phone only (each camera has its own sensor, while the screen is one obviously!)].

I will be glad to see some footage and real life experiences from the people buying the actual camera soon. 

[Alt Shoo]

I forget that in the world of cameras there are pixel peepers and in the world of forums, there are word wizards and sentence surveyors. Whoever feels some type of way about my comment is reading way too much into it. 

Matter of fact I agree with the majority, surprisingly that wasn’t read into, that you don’t need 8 bit, but once again for my needs it just doesn’t cut it. Regarding the Xh1 it’s great that it has DCI 4k! 

[Don Kotlos]

 

[Thomas Hill]

8 hours ago, Clovis said:

Indeed !

How come ??  I saw the video has (only) 23,98 fps. I would expect more jitter here and there ...

I don't know. What usually annoys me is jitter with movement across a static screen. It could be some Fuji magic dust sprinkled in the new 200mbit codec or her spinning across the screen is disguising it. Either way, the image is lovely.

[mkabi]

24 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

 

Noticed that motion cadence goes out the window with Face AF on...... Hopefully that is fixed in a future firmware update. 

[Don Kotlos]

2 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Noticed that motion cadence goes out the window with Face AF on...... Hopefully that is fixed in a future firmware update. 

The 70 degrees shutter angle was the most probable culprit. 

[Andrew Reid]

Had a go of one today.

They have badly messed up the ergonomics for video.

The silent control panel is a joke... Touch screen items are way too small to accurately select and the scrolling is unresponsive.

The exposure comp. button is programmable but you can't assign movie recording to it... there is also no movie record button whatsoever!

Strangely you can assign slow-mo frame rate options to the button, and select them any time you want... even in stills mode. But you can't shoot.

The movie mode is on the end of the drive selection lever again like X-T2 and it sucks balls. Finger nail grasping, clicking, takes ages... just horrible. Have to go through about 6 clicks to reach the movie mode.

Autofocus was poor. Didn't try all lenses though.

On the bright side... The stabilisation seemed REALLY effective.

[salim]

20 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Autofocus was poor. Didn't try all lenses though.

Thanks! That's all I needed to know...I guess, Sony A7iii is a much better practical option. 

[Yurolov]

2 minutes ago, salim said:

Thanks! That's all I needed to know...I guess, Sony A7iii is a much better practical option. 

Yeah me 2. It is a shame as the images are really nice, but for a portable camera autofocus would be nice to have for quick run and gun type work. I am waiting on canon as I know only they can get it right from both an ergonomics and image standpoint. I think we just have to pray the ff mirrorless will give us what we have been asking for.   

[Tim Sewell]

I have no skin in this game, but on the Fuji camera forum I frequent a couple of people who have received their X-H1s are reporting that the AF is noticeably quicker. Obviously that's for stills - and they haven't detailed the lenses used - but I guess we shouldn't dismiss it too early. Those of us who use Fuji cams know that there is a difference similar to that between the weather in England right now and that enjoyed in the Florida Keys in AF performance between lenses.

[Thomas Hill]

49 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Had a go of one today.

They have badly messed up the ergonomics for video.

The silent control panel is a joke... Touch screen items are way too small to accurately select and the scrolling is unresponsive.

The exposure comp. button is programmable but you can't assign movie recording to it... there is also no movie record button whatsoever!

Strangely you can assign slow-mo frame rate options to the button, and select them any time you want... even in stills mode. But you can't shoot.

The movie mode is on the end of the drive selection lever again like X-T2 and it sucks balls. Finger nail grasping, clicking, takes ages... just horrible. Have to go through about 6 clicks to reach the movie mode.

Autofocus was poor. Didn't try all lenses though.

On the bright side... The stabilisation seemed REALLY effective.

The video AF is surprising because it is excellent on the X-E3. 

[salim]

22 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

Yeah me 2. It is a shame as the images are really nice, but for a portable camera autofocus would be nice to have for quick run and gun type work.

The IBIS look good, the colors look pretty good. They almost got everything right to have a tiny camera that you can steal shots with and quickly create something. But if you are going to be fighting with AF, then it's going be a headache. But for some people who are going to focus manually along with Fuji's very reasonable zoom cinema lenses, it makes a good compact package still. 
 

24 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

I am waiting on canon as I know only they can get it right from both an ergonomics and image standpoint.

Not going to happen anytime soon. Canon is doing financially well and as a result there is no financial pressure on them to innovate outside of what they have been doing. Yes, canon mastered the AF technology with Dual Pixel technology. But they're not going to give you a camera in the $2-3k price point. 

I actually think there is more incentive on Nikon to create something great, but not sure they can muster the technology needed. 

So, it really comes down to Sony and they put a lot into their A7iii and I think it's a very reasonable price for a FF 4k camera. The question for me is still if their IBIS has improved at all or not for video stuff. 

[Kisaha]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Had a go of one today.

They have badly messed up the ergonomics for video.

The silent control panel is a joke... Touch screen items are way too small to accurately select and the scrolling is unresponsive.

The exposure comp. button is programmable but you can't assign movie recording to it... there is also no movie record button whatsoever!

Strangely you can assign slow-mo frame rate options to the button, and select them any time you want... even in stills mode. But you can't shoot.

The movie mode is on the end of the drive selection lever again like X-T2 and it sucks balls. Finger nail grasping, clicking, takes ages... just horrible. Have to go through about 6 clicks to reach the movie mode.

Autofocus was poor. Didn't try all lenses though.

On the bright side... The stabilisation seemed REALLY effective.

 

I am trying to be silent on this thread because of the recent bad blood, but I have to say it.

Some of the above negatives are the positives that keep us closely to our NX1's so many years after its release.

Super accurate and responsive touch control, that can change almost anything with one button (Fn + multi touch functions), plus Fn button on the lens, that can adjust settings rotating the focus ring (yes, it can do that as well).

Movie Record Button (programmable), and movie mode (on stand bye) with one button (no dials whatsoever for that, of course there are programmable positions in the program dial if you'd like), and almost everything on thumb and index fingers.

Those are small things for some, for others quite substantial, and only @Andrew Reid can confirm these!

[Inazuma]

^Do you work for Samsung? You know their camera line went out of business and you're not being paid anymore right? :P 

[Kisaha]

@InazumaSomeone should have copied simple things like those mentioned above though, and still haven't. I know for sure (I read a couple of top Fuji executive interviews in 2016) that they were following NX really close, it could be easy to just copy some of the things that were right in that camera. This are not small things when in the field and ergonomics matter. The line doesn't exist, but the cameras do, and work well, that a dead line from 2014 has some advantages to a newly manufactured camera of 2018, says more for the new camera than the old one though, and that doesn't sound well.