Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

[jonpais]

The whole firmware update nonsense is just a diversionary tactic by the hardcore Fuji fanboys. “Look there! No, look here!” Nobody with any common sense left in their brain purchases a camera for firmware updates. It’s certainly not in my top ten priorities, nor should it be in anyone else’s. “Should I buy camera A or camera B?” “Oh dear, camera B might turn into a toaster oven in time for Christmas - I think I’ll take it!” Firmware updates never added the one modest feature I needed most on my X-T2 - zebras. If you’ve got an ounce of wits about you, you purchase a camera that has the features you need now and that performs without malfunctioning. I don’t have the luxury of being able to wait six months to a year to get problems fixed that shouldn’t have been there to begin with; and I’m certainly not going to buy a camera with a dozen bugs  which not even the fanboys who purchased the X-H1 are willing to take a minute of their precious time to confirm whether they’ve been fixed or not.

[jonpais]

I’m also wondering whether anyone who’s purchased the X-H1 would be so kind as to determine if the much vaunted top E ink display still fails to distinguish between UHD and DCI 4K. Oh wait, you didn’t even notice? Guess that ornament wasn’t that necessary after all...

[Robert Collins]

Still, honestly speaking, I think this whole Sony/Fuji feud is pretty silly. Reading this thread you would think that both companies had just introduced virtually unusable cameras when, in fact, both companies are pushing the boundaries of features for a hybrid and especially the features at the given price point. 6 months ago, few would have imagined we would get these hybrids at this price point.

[IronFilm]

On 2/18/2018 at 5:47 PM, Matthew Hartman said:

I have a question for everyone. How do you purchase your gear? Cash? Credit? If it's credit, is the upgrade honestly worth going into debt over? 

 

Cash! Always cash. 

Credit is scary, easy to slip too far down that slippery slope....

So I never have. 

 

 

On 2/18/2018 at 5:47 PM, Matthew Hartman said:

4.) Set a custom white balance using a white or 50% grey card. This will help you greatly in post get an accurate color balance. You should fair well with your Fuji. 

 

A Colorchecker Xrite Passport is a good idea too.

 

On 2/18/2018 at 5:47 PM, Matthew Hartman said:

6.) Tiffen Pro Mist 1/4 (or silimar) helps reduce digital sharpness. Industry even uses them on $60k cameras. 

 

Very true. I've seen this used on sets on such cameras. 

 

[jonpais]

@Robert Collins I will agree in so far as getting a fully-featured full frame mirrorless camera for $2,000 seemed unthinkable just a few months ago. Reasonably priced, full featured crop sensor cameras that shoot 4K have been with us for a while now. As far as sheer functionality goes, reliability and usability should be taken for granted. And exactly how have Fuji been pushing the boundaries for features? I think they’ve missed lots of opportunities here myself. Zebras, anyone? A functioning remote app? A headphone jack? A larger battery? Sorry, I’m not buying it.

[IronFilm]

On 2/18/2018 at 11:30 PM, Emanuel said:

There's no other like FujiFilm color science. No matter what.

Reduser fella output:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?165603-Fujifilm-X-H1-announced-the-first-video-focused-stills-camera-from-Fujifilm&p=1785905&viewfull=1#post1785905

Sorry guys, but didn't resist either... ; )

 

I started that thread ;-) Wanted to convert a few redusers over! :-P 

 

 

[Trek of Joy]

3 hours ago, Yurolov said:

I am not saying Sony is better. I would never claim that. A lot of what you mentioned though is to do with ergonomics which I agree for Sony are pretty bad. But only a new model can solve ergo issues.

My whole point was whether the fuji firmware philosophy is really just a mask for incompetence. If they update the XH1's continuous video autofocus then clearly it is a mask, as the current autofocus is worse than that of the xt2s. It should really have been better from the start and not require a firmware update. 

I was playing devil's advocate. For me, I would not buy a product that is imperfect from the get go. They can add all the new features they want but the question remains why weren't these features included in the initial release. And by the time they release these new updates will most people have already moved on?

  

So you never buy a camera when first released? Because they are all flawed at release. I haven't seen one camera in the last few years that didn't have bugs out of the gate. The XT2 was a great camera at release, despite its flaws. The GH5's AF was also dumb at release. Go back and watch some of the videos to see how bad it was. Then they fixed it with an update. This was something none of the shills with the early test bodies bothered to point out. If you know of a camera that was perfect out of the gate, please enlighten me. 

As to Fuji, don't you think a team of engineers and programmers can improve on initial designs over the course of time? Instead of putting that work into new bodies like Sony, Fuji puts that know-how into making current models better. Olympus has done the same thing as well, years after a camera gets released in the case of the Em1. Like I said, its a different philosophy. I guess the alternative is to wait 5-years for a new generation like Nikon with the d850, but even then there were issues. You can take the glass is half empty approach and call them incompetent, but after shooting with the XT2 for the last year and a half that's just not the case. It was brilliant at release, and it keeps getting better. I shot 30k stills last year too, so I'm not evaluating any camera strictly on its video. YMMV.

From what I've seen, the XH1's AF issues stem from using DR200 or 400 in video, AF looks good at DR100. And it's AF looks really good when shooting stills. Canon is head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to video AF, Sony is great - but better with stills than video, and everyone else is playing catch up right now. Then there's the fantastic colors from Eterna...

Chris

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

The whole firmware update nonsense is just a diversionary tactic by the hardcore Fuji fanboys. “Look there! No, look here!” Nobody with any common sense left in their brain purchases a camera for firmware updates. It’s certainly not in my top ten priorities, nor should it be in anyone else’s. “Should I buy camera A or camera B?” “Oh dear, camera B might turn into a toaster oven in time for Christmas - I think I’ll take it!” Firmware updates never added the one modest feature I needed most on my X-T2 - zebras. If you’ve got an ounce of wits about you, you purchase a camera that has the features you need now and that performs without malfunctioning. I don’t have the luxury of being able to wait six months to a year to get problems fixed that shouldn’t have been there to begin with; and I’m certainly not going to buy a camera with a dozen bugs  which not even the fanboys who purchased the X-H1 are willing to take a minute of their precious time to confirm whether they’ve been fixed or not.

What happens when some of this is discovered after large numbers have already bought the camera - like the GH5's F-ed up AF when it was released? 

[IronFilm]

On 2/20/2018 at 6:16 AM, jonpais said:

@anonim And how are you set for lenses? Your two Voigtlanders aren’t compatible with Fuji. If you’re shooting professionally and $800 is a hardship, my advice would be to stick with the camera you’ve already got.

Better advice would be to find another career.... ? 
 

On 2/20/2018 at 10:14 PM, frontfocus said:

I really don't get it. 2 years ago Fujis were probably the worst cameras you could get for video. Heavy moire, missing sharpness, no control over settings. The X-T2 changed a lot of it. The image quality was very nice and it added some controls. 

And now, the X-H1 adds another bunch of nice features. No, it doesn't do 60fps or 10bit, but as a whole I think the camera looks very nice. It seems they improved the autofocus, they added a lot of features like 1/48s, linear response of focus or internal Log and added hardware like IBIS and the touch screen. 

No, it's not a GH5 killer, but I don't think it's supposed to be. "Jack of all trades, master of none", seems fitting. It's mildly cropped APS-C sensor won't match the low light performance of an A7S but it will be better than the GH5. Might be very close to the GH5s though. It's improved autofocus will probably not match canons dual pixel, but it might just be up there with Sony, close behind. And it doesn't have waveform or zebras yet (slashcam says Fuji might add those in an upcoming firmwareupdate) but it does have a lot of other small things, like the internal log profile, the 200Mbit/s codec, the DCI 4K option, 1/48s shutter speed, timecode, tally light and so on. And all of that with the very nice Fuji colors. To me it feels like a camera that might be very interesting to people shooting not video only, but both, photos and videos.

While this camera is certainly not for me, I love how quickly Fuji has moved forward over the last couple of years and it makes me excited for Fuji as to what the next couple of years will bring!

On 2/21/2018 at 2:47 AM, Tim Sewell said:

Definitely right there. The Fuji users' forum I frequent is, in general, pretty sniffy about video. Most times, when someone comes up with a video related question, at least 25% of the responses will be 'buy a video camera'.

Sad but true, there is still a significant segment on hardcore photography forums who are under the crazy belief that putting video in a camera MAKES IT WORSE!! ?? :-/ wtf

 

 

On 2/23/2018 at 8:52 AM, mkabi said:

We are already beginning to see Canon's crappy cards. May be they might pull a wildcard? C100 mark 3? Better than the C100 mark 2, but worse than the C200?

 

My guess is the C100mk3 will be like the C200 but without raw. 

 

[Robert Collins]

11 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@Robert Collins I will agree in so far as getting a fully-featured full frame mirrorless camera for $2,000 seemed unthinkable just a few months ago. Reasonably priced, full featured crop sensor cameras that shoot 4K have been with us for a while now. As far as sheer functionality goes, reliability and usability should be taken for granted. And exactly how have Fuji been pushing the boundaries for features? I think they’ve missed lots of opportunities here myself. Zebras anyone? A functioning remote app? A headphone jack? A larger battery? Sorry, I’m not buting it.

I understand the point you are making but I still think it amounts to a 'glass half empty' argument rather than a 'glass half full'. On the other side, what Fuji has done (that would be important to me' is 1. introduce ibis (which has always been a dealbreaker for me with Fuji) and 2. higher bitrate video than its competitors (generally speaking).

I think that when both Sony and Fuji are bringing so much to the party we should probably celebrate this rather than focus on the weaknesses. We are not talking Canon, Nikon and Olympus here because their relative deficiencies are rather more obvious.

[Yurolov]

13 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

So you never buy a camera when first released? Because they are all flawed at release.

Of course they are all flawed, so you pick your battles, but I don't expect that anyone will fix the issues I have with the camera, which can be fixed,  if they haven't bothered to fix them upon initial release, or if they haven't bothered to add them on release.

No one has assured us that the XH1's af will be fixed. 

They just seem incompetent releasing something that performs worse than their prior model. Firmware update or no - get it right the first time and there won't be these issues. GH5 has unusable autofocus regardless of the fix. And they only fixed it because people were complaining so much about how crappy the autofocus was.

It is up to you to decide whether that makes panasonic noble for updating their products or incompetent for failing to plan properly at the initial release when they know their competitors have strong af. 

Same thing with Fuji - you are just choosing to view it in a positive light. 

Just playing devil's advocate here but it is entirely possible that I am right and I think Jon has a point as well. Zebra's should be the first thing they should update but surprisingly they haven't - so you never know what you will get. 

[IronFilm]

On 2/23/2018 at 12:48 AM, Mattias Burling said:

The best part about this new Fuji imo is that it spawned this article: https://www.fujirumors.com/photographers-anonymous-hate/

Quoting this for no other reason than how awesome this article is. 

Read it. 

Laugh. 

Read it again. 

Laugh some more!
 

On 2/23/2018 at 9:42 AM, mkabi said:

But, ask yourself this... what spurred Canon's cinema line in the first place? It all started with the 5D mark 2 - instead of fueling that fire.... they threw water on it and said lookey over here... cinema line! XLR, built-in ND and everything video! Meanwhile.... Panasonic saw that and said.... holy shit!!! build that GH1 quick and push those video features. 

The Panasonic GH1 came out long before the C300mk1

 

[jonpais]

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

So you never buy a camera when first released? Because they are all flawed at release. I haven't seen one camera in the last few years that didn't have bugs out of the gate. The XT2 was a great camera at release, despite its flaws. The GH5's AF was also dumb at release. Go back and watch some of the videos to see how bad it was. Then they fixed it with an update. This was something none of the shills with the early test bodies bothered to point out. If you know of a camera that was perfect out of the gate, please enlighten me. 

As to Fuji, don't you think a team of engineers and programmers can improve on initial designs over the course of time? Instead of putting that work into new bodies like Sony, Fuji puts that know-how into making current models better. Olympus has done the same thing as well, years after a camera gets released in the case of the Em1. Like I said, its a different philosophy. I guess the alternative is to wait 5-years for a new generation like Nikon with the d850, but even then there were issues. You can take the glass is half empty approach and call them incompetent, but after shooting with the XT2 for the last year and a half that's just not the case. It was brilliant at release, and it keeps getting better. I shot 30k stills last year too, so I'm not evaluating any camera strictly on its video. YMMV.

From what I've seen, the XH1's AF issues stem from using DR200 or 400 in video, AF looks good at DR100. And it's AF looks really good when shooting stills. Canon is head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to video AF, Sony is great - but better with stills than video, and everyone else is playing catch up right now. Then there's the fantastic colors from Eterna...

Chris

What happens when some of this is discovered after large numbers have already bought the camera - like the GH5's F-ed up AF when it was released? 

whataboutism - just another ploy by fanboys.

Constantly shifting the goal posts is another.

“Look over there!” “No, the target’s moved again -see?”

What does shit  CDAF have to do with anything?

Concerning Fuji’s famous color science, the reason Eterna was added in the first place was because filmmakers did not appreciate the film emulations in the X-T2. 

[Mattias Burling]

7 hours ago, Inazuma said:

Perhaps the shadow setting doesn't do anything on the XT20 in video (much like the XPro2)?

 

I guess. It was when saying that some angry fellow threw a tantrum. So I just wanted to check it out.

Personally Im fine with it either way.

One thing that confuses me is how thinking that companies that improve their products via firmware makes me a Sony fanboy when Sony never does it... its just weird.

All the people that raved about the Samsung firmware updates back in the day, where they Sony fanboys to?

[jonpais]

Name calling and personal attacks are the tactics of last resort employed by pathetic little fanboys with no moral character or reasoning ability.

[Mattias Burling]

I know, you have been doing it a long time now. But I think you are a bit hard on yourself. You shouldn't go as far as calling yourself scum. Imo troll is the proper term.

[Aussie Ash]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Sad but true, there is still a significant segment on hardcore photography forums who are under the crazy belief that putting video in a camera MAKES IT WORSE!! ?? :-/ wtf

 

One guy wanted a discount on a new camera if they would disable the video features !

[Castorp]

I am new, so please forgive my ignorance, but are there moderators? Why is the same individual allowed to repeatedly derail this thread? 

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Sad but true, there is still a significant segment on hardcore photography forums who are under the crazy belief that putting video in a camera MAKES IT WORSE!! ?? :-/ wtf

On some cameras I would have too agree. But over all having more features never hurt nobody.
The interesting question is if someone have found credible info on how it would change the price. Most of those folks are thinking that adding video has contributed to a higher price of the camera. I can imagine it has some impact but never seen any facts showing exactly how much/little. 

[KitaCam]

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

I’m also wondering whether anyone who’s purchased the X-H1 would be so kind as to determine if the much vaunted top E ink display still fails to distinguish between UHD and DCI 4K. Oh wait, you didn’t even notice? Guess that ornament wasn’t that necessary after all...

I can confirm that the E-ink display does not currently differentiate between whether UHD or DCI 4K is selected.

[jonpais]

2 minutes ago, KitaCam said:

I can confirm that the E-ink display does not currently differentiate between whether UHD or DCI 4K is selected.

Thanks.