Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

[kye]

9 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

54 pages on this freaking camera. (Or any) Why is this particular camera so controversial here? I feel bad for the people that actually bought and like this camera, I'm sure they came to this thread to enjoy talking about it with others that like it too.

THIS.

I was that guy - I did my research, bought the XC10 and then read the 50+ page XC10 thread on this board to try and learn how to get the most out of it.  The purchase was one of the top 10 most expensive things I've bought in my life and the result of much research and conversations with my significant other to get financial approval, and by the end of the thread I thought that I'd f*cked it up, both for buying the wrong camera and also not realising it was only worth about a third of new price on the second-hand market.

Now I know that not only had most of the critical people in that thread never even seen the camera in real life, but that many criticisms were factually incorrect (ie, they hadn't even read the spec sheet), they don't actually know much about film-making, and are just aggressive ass-hats.  

But I didn't know that at the time.

In terms of what that means for this forum - I registered to every other film-making forum before joining this one.  I read all threads on this board with the assumption that every second person can't read, can't make films, and is unpleasant.  I don't have that mindset on any of the other forums I'm on - it may not be related but they're all industry forums where almost every single person is courteous, respectful, and tries not to talk out of their a**es.

1 hour ago, kidzrevil said:

Agreed. I really want to learn about the camera but its hard finding the info I need digging through this thread. Especially with all the anti fuji hate an occasional aggression by some of our respected members

That's why I had a look here today.  I literally thought "I'll have a look in that thread - let's see if there's any chance that there's usable info there - I'll read the last page and if not then I won't bother reading any further".

[jonpais]

I actually learned a bunch from reading these pages. Such as that the mere suggestion that Fuji might have gone with a larger battery, a headphone jack and zebras will draw the ire of the entire EOSHD community. That a flippy screen is a deal breaker for everyone. That a full sized HDMI port is anathema. That a fully functioning app is utterly unnecessary and would be despised. That firmware updates have suddenly become the barometer by which we measure cameras. That there is no denying that Fuji color science is unsurpassed. That a thumbwheel might be more convenient than an aperture ring on the lens is complete BS. That $4,000 cinema lenses are an indication that Fuji is taking video seriously (even though nobody here can afford to buy them). That nobody here needs 10-bit, and anyone who does is an asshole. That nobody is interested in knowing whether the small bugs in the pre-production model have been fixed or not. That trading insults and down votes to silence forum members has become the new norm. That ergonomics is not a subject up for discussion. That in order to defend Fuji, we must launch an ugly counter offensive at Sony. That every statement of fact must be followed by ‘imo’. That everything I’ve just written is a lie and must be punished severely. That I should be banned for speaking the truth. 

The chief differences between the X-T2 and the X-H1 are (1) physical size (2) the addition of Eterna (3) IBIS (4) internal F-log (5) higher bit rate. I own the X-T2 and several thousands of dollars worth of lenses and have every reason to want Fuji to succeed. But the X-H1, particularly after the release of Sony’s a7 III, leads me to believe it’s a case of too little, too late. 

Down votes, anyone?

[Mattias Burling]

[jonpais]

3 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

 

[Emanuel]

Guys, please stop :X Let the thread go back to the right track, OK? (to be sincere, playground is more than enough, as well the leftover going along with extra downvotes polluting other threads too... thanks for your understanding : )

 

 

 

 

[KitaCam]

In terms of the 'Fujifilm X-H1 Video Autofocus Tip' video above, I wonder if the Auto DR setting is also hindering his performance (i.e. camera may choose DR400, who knows). At this stage i'd suggest that DR400 (and possibly DR200) should be avoided (pre hopeful FW tweak?) when requiring continuous autofocus.

In terms of Face Detection in video mode, I believe again the DR100 setting should be used of course, but I also believe it is important to select the 'multi' point focus option rather than 'Area' (i.e. smaller box in middle of screen). My experience is that Face Detection works pretty well using this approach, yes it's not 100% solid, but certainly is working and useable. When using the 'Area' focus option the face seems to be detected but focus is not updated so well. 'Multi' is better in this respect from my findings. Please others test this also so to help backup or contradict my findings.

In terms of this thread being continually derailed, it's seems clear by now that a new thread would be the best approach for those really interested in the X-H1 and what is without a doubt now in my mind a close to brilliant stills/video package. Surely this camera will be improved/refined further over time and my hope is that this will only be accelerated by a thread containing considered and relevant comments from a community with a lot of sense and experience to share....

[IronFilm]

15 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

54 pages on this freaking camera. (Or any)

I feel this is a complement of this camera!

Has any new release got quite this response?

[Matthew Hartman]

13 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I feel this is a complement of this camera!

Has any new release got quite this response?

Well it would be if 50% of it wasn't centered around adolescence. ?

[Mattias Burling]

Could someone with the camera shoot a second or two with for example Eterna in default and then the same scene with lifted shadows and different DR setting. And then share the clips?
Would be interesting to see if there truly is a difference or if its replicable in post.

[Attila Bakos]

22 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Could someone with the camera shoot a second or two with for example Eterna in default and then the same scene with lifted shadows and different DR setting. And then share the clips?
Would be interesting to see if there truly is a difference or if its replicable in post.

Remember the comparison I showed you earlier? I found the sources for it: link It's not exactly what you want, but it shows that the highlights and shadows settings make a difference you can't replicate in post if your scene is very contrasty. Remember to switch the clips to full range, if your NLE doesn't detect it as such.

[Mattias Burling]

19 minutes ago, Attila Bakos said:

Remember the comparison I showed you earlier? I found the sources for it: link It's not exactly what you want, but it shows that the highlights and shadows settings make a difference you can't replicate in post if your scene is very contrasty. Remember to switch the clips to full range, if your NLE doesn't detect it as such.

Cool, thanks  
When quickly comparing shadows -2 and shadows 0 I see no difference but I will have to take a better look later when I get home.
Just to make sure, these where exact same aperture/shutter/iso/ND/etc? Identical exposure?

[Attila Bakos]

2 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Cool, thanks  
When quickly comparing shadows -2 and shadows 0 I see no difference but I will have to take a better look later when I get home.
Just to make sure, these where exact same aperture/shutter/iso/ND/etc? Identical exposure?

I shot these almost a year ago, so I can't be 100% sure, but I believe exposure is identical. I'm not sure why you don't see a difference, to me it's clearly there:

0/0:

-2/-2:

[Mattias Burling]

Yes, but it contains the same information. There are no crushed blacks thats not recoverable with a simple preset. After a quick adjustment (one click) I see pretty much the same image. What Im trying to determine is if the -2 shadow gives you information that otherwise is lost. Because that was what I doubted from the beginning and that spurred this hole thing
 

[Attila Bakos]

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

Yes, but it contains the same information. There are no crushed blacks thats not recoverable with a simple preset. After a quick adjustment (one click) I see pretty much the same image. What Im trying to determine is if the -2 shadow gives you information that otherwise is lost. Because that was what I doubted from the beginning and that spurred this hole thing
 

I have already proven that they do not contain the same information when I posted my frame grabs (on page 51) where I pushed the shadows to the same level, and you could clearly see that the -2 version has more detail and less color noise in the darkest parts. Now that you have the sources you can easily replicate that.

But here is another proof for you, I cut down the bottom 694 pixels of the images, so that we only see the darkest parts:

This is the 0/0 version, it has 639 unique colors, and the green channel has 40 unique values.

This is the -2/-2 version, it has 1137 unique colors, and the green channel has 57 unique values.

The framing is not perfectly the same but it wouldn't make a difference. You are working with less shadow information in the 0/0 version.

[Inazuma]

7 hours ago, jonpais said:

I actually learned a bunch from reading these pages. Such as that the mere suggestion that Fuji might have gone with a larger battery, a headphone jack and zebras will draw the ire of the entire EOSHD community. Etc...

I don't know what's going on with you but over the last few months I've noticed you've gotten quick to become aggressive. No one here is out to get you. Just because some people don't find certain features useful doesn't it mean it's an attack on you. Just like how AF isn't a priority feature for you, lack of 10bit might not be a deal breaker for others. Repeating the same things over and over isn't going to change people's minds. 

[Mattias Burling]

1 hour ago, Attila Bakos said:

Now that you have the sources you can easily replicate that.

I will try, first attempt there was no difference and with the XT20 they where also identical. But with your source material I didn't peep that much because I didn't have time. 
But like I said, I will try again. You really don't have to spend more time gathering "proof", Im just curious but its not the end off the world if I can't replicate it. The footage from our X-T20 looks good enough anyway. Thanks for your help anyway, really appreciate it.

[jonpais]

A sort of torture test of the IBIS. I believe Gordon Laing is simply holding the camera at arm's length with the absolutely gigantic 16-55mm f/2.8,. which is a gorgeous lens BTW. The lens has no OIS. It appears that he's just walking normally, no ninja walk, so the X-H1 does quite well considering. Obviously, not a vlogging camera, which I'm sure he's aware of. He's shooting with the new Eterna profile, which Fuji added after feedback from filmmakers. It would seem as though there's been no grading of the footage. However, because Eterna is a rather flat picture profile, I'm guessing that best results can be obtained by doing some color correction in post, not SOOC. 

 

[kidzrevil]

4 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Could someone with the camera shoot a second or two with for example Eterna in default and then the same scene with lifted shadows and different DR setting. And then share the clips?
Would be interesting to see if there truly is a difference or if its replicable in post.

The eterna footage I seen looks like it has a light version of the m31 LUT built in. The shadows are shifted towards teal ! Im waiting for some footage of eterna from someone in this forum so we can assess

[jonpais]

@kidzrevil I just shared a vid. Pretty sure it’s SOOC. 

[kidzrevil]

On 2/20/2018 at 4:14 AM, frontfocus said:

I really don't get it. 2 years ago Fujis were probably the worst cameras you could get for video. Heavy moire, missing sharpness, no control over settings. The X-T2 changed a lot of it. The image quality was very nice and it added some controls. 

And now, the X-H1 adds another bunch of nice features. No, it doesn't do 60fps or 10bit, but as a whole I think the camera looks very nice. It seems they improved the autofocus, they added a lot of features like 1/48s, linear response of focus or internal Log and added hardware like IBIS and the touch screen. 

No, it's not a GH5 killer, but I don't think it's supposed to be. "Jack of all trades, master of none", seems fitting. It's mildly cropped APS-C sensor won't match the low light performance of an A7S but it will be better than the GH5. Might be very close to the GH5s though. It's improved autofocus will probably not match canons dual pixel, but it might just be up there with Sony, close behind. And it doesn't have waveform or zebras yet (slashcam says Fuji might add those in an upcoming firmwareupdate) but it does have a lot of other small things, like the internal log profile, the 200Mbit/s codec, the DCI 4K option, 1/48s shutter speed, timecode, tally light and so on. And all of that with the very nice Fuji colors. To me it feels like a camera that might be very interesting to people shooting not video only, but both, photos and videos.

I personally think Fuji's goal is to become a hybrid camera manufacturer. An ideal balance between video and photo capabilities. As a freelancer I shoot both photo and video and sometimes you need to do both simultaneously for a client which is very hard to do with cameras who solely focus on video. I can even see this benefiting journalist who now are expected to do both video and photo on assignments. That plus fuji color and a 200mbps bit rate we can guarantee our footage meets the 4k uhd broadcasting standard. I think Fuji covered the basics very very well with how they went about it. I agree that not only isn't it a GH5 killer it was never intended to be. I think most of us our so obsessed with brands competing that we miss the point in their product. I do not think Fuji is threatened or even thinking about the gh5 when the gh5 users aint even their market LOL