Fuji X-H1. IBIS, Phase Detect 4K beast?

[Trek of Joy]

13 minutes ago, Attila Bakos said:

So in order to have working AF, don't use DR400 (or 200), don't use F-Log, and don't use a fixed ISO. And even then the transition is not smooth at all

Did you try it with something that has a little contrast and detail, like a human face, instead of a black leather chair with a set of black headphones draped over it? That looks bad, but your foreground subject with a blown white background gives the AF system little to lock on to as there's virtually no contrast.

Chris

[Attila Bakos]

Just now, Trek of Joy said:

Did you try it with something that has a little contrast and detail, like a human face, instead of a black leather chair with a set of black headphones draped over it? That looks bad, but your foreground subject with a blown white background gives the AF system little to lock on to as there's virtually no contrast.

Chris

Oh that's not my video, I don't have an X-H1 (yet?).

[jonpais]

I would think there was more than enough contrast there for autofocus to lock on to something.

[brianwahl]

I find the focus works pretty well. Compared to my A9 it’s not as good, but it keeps up with my 5 year old, which is no simple feat. 

I’ll also add that I owned an X-T2 briefly and the autofocus on that body did seem more reliable and accurate than my experience so far with the X-H1. 

[kidzrevil]

Damn if I needed AF as bad as you guys do I’d be out of canera options ? is it too much to ask to see if the camera is any good when taking the traditional route and manual focusing ? Im still one of those oddballs that thinks AF is too early and too unreliable of a feature to be used in the field. What the computer wants to focus on and what I want to focus on in a shot...lets just say we don’t always agree...even in stills LOL. 

I really want to know about the more critical things about the camera like is the image prone to macroblocking ? Is there heavy noise reduction like the NX1 ? How does it compare to the venerable gh5 or the sony a6500 ? What about that divine looking Eterna profile ? I want to know where this camera is on the food chain compared to the other bodies we have available today. Im seeing pages of AF talk and im over it. Do we need to make a seperate thread solely addressing image quality and usability ? 

[brianwahl]

1 hour ago, kidzrevil said:

Damn if I needed AF as bad as you guys do I’d be out of canera options ? is it too much to ask to see if the camera is any good when taking the traditional route and manual focusing ? Im still one of those oddballs that thinks AF is too early and too unreliable of a feature to be used in the field. What the computer wants to focus on and what I want to focus on in a shot...lets just say we don’t always agree...even in stills LOL. 

I really want to know about the more critical things about the camera like is the image prone to macroblocking ? Is there heavy noise reduction like the NX1 ? How does it compare to the venerable gh5 or the sony a6500 ? What about that divine looking Eterna profile ? I want to know where this camera is on the food chain compared to the other bodies we have available today. Im seeing pages of AF talk and im over it. Do we need to make a seperate thread solely addressing image quality and usability ? 

Here’s some (very slightly) graded Eterna footage shot at 120fps. 

I have a Sony A9 and a6500. I’ve owned an a7S ii and a7R ii. I can get the Sony footage to look this good (color-wise), but it takes a LOT of work, granted I’m no colorist. With the Eterna footage, it’s effortless - literally just a bump in saturation and contrast. 

The dynamic range may not net quite as good, and the slow motion footage may be slightly more prone to aliasing, but color is far more important to me than those things - I believe color has a much more emotional impact when viewing video. 

EDIT: Sorry for the double post of that video. I posted it a few days ago but my post was under moderation (just signed up for this forum), and I see now that it’s just been approved (on the previous page).

[Trek of Joy]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

I would think there was more than enough contrast there for autofocus to lock on to something.

With harsh backlighting and a black subject in the foreground? Many cameras would struggle with that in video mode. My XT2 and a7r2 hunt when shooting backlit portraits - sometimes it takes a few tries to get focus lock - and video AF is a step backwards from stills. Torture tests are good to see the limits, but I'd be willing to bet a rack between two people would produce better results. I see when mine arrives. Now I just need a black leather chair...

Chris

53 minutes ago, brianwahl said:

Here’s some (very slightly) graded Eterna footage shot at 120fps. 

I have a Sony A9 and a6500. I’ve owned an a7S ii and a7R ii a lot. I can get the Sony footage to look this good (color-wise), but it takes a LOT of work, granted I’m no colorist. With the Eterna footage, it’s effortless - literally just a bump in saturation and contrast. 

The dynamic range may not net quite as good, and the slow motion footage may be slightly more prone to aliasing, but color is far more important to me than those things - I believe color has a much more emotional impact when viewing video. 

Looks good IMO. Thanks for posting.

[kidzrevil]

@brianwahl sheesh ! Those skintones man...they look damn good ! The biggest giveaway that this camera handles skintones incredibly well is the fact that both the darker and lighter complexions in the same shot looked NATURAL. I’ve been looking for a camera that I can get good SOOC footage with because honestly grading can be time consuming and lately I notice clients are becoming more focused on quick turnover times. You think its a good idea to make the switch from Sony to Fuji ? 

[Django]

1 hour ago, kidzrevil said:

Damn if I needed AF as bad as you guys do I’d be out of canera options ? is it too much to ask to see if the camera is any good when taking the traditional route and manual focusing ? Im still one of those oddballs that thinks AF is too early and too unreliable of a feature to be used in the field. What the computer wants to focus on and what I want to focus on in a shot...lets just say we don’t always agree...even in stills LOL. 

I really want to know about the more critical things about the camera like is the image prone to macroblocking ? Is there heavy noise reduction like the NX1 ? How does it compare to the venerable gh5 or the sony a6500 ? What about that divine looking Eterna profile ? I want to know where this camera is on the food chain compared to the other bodies we have available today. Im seeing pages of AF talk and im over it. Do we need to make a seperate thread solely addressing image quality and usability ? 

With the spreading use of gimbals and IBIS, good AF-C has become important.  Dual pixel AF is the benchmark.. to put it simply, it can put pro focus pullers to shame!

The importance of strong AF-C is even more important on Fuji cams as manual focusing is kind of dodgy with focus by wire lenses.

Actually I'd say this is Fuji's biggest setback for video imo.. I actually like performing a good manual rack focus and it's very hard to pull off (no pun intended) with focus by wire even with the best linear focus prime lenses.

So AF-C has to be great, ideally, flawless (a la Canon's DPAF).. nobody wants "OK AF-C" for video.. the slightest hunt or misfocus and your shot is ruined. So it's like get it right or leave it out.

XT2 with the latest AF-C update was really good. it remains to be seen if XH1 can match it at DR100..

As for the IQ.. the 200mbps codec really seems to make the image hold up better in post than the previous XT2 (100mbps) codec. This is especially true for FLOG where XT2 struggled a bit. Image here is very solid with low noise/macroblocking. There also have been comp tests which confirm this compared to Sony 100mbps XAVC.. Eterna is also a breeze to grade as stated above.

Solid AWB & overall color science is definitely Fuji's nicest asset IQ wise. It really shines in mixed light conditions where most other camera brands struggle/fail, while Fuji's seem to nail it every time. This is incredibly time-saving in post workflow.. 

 

[webrunner5]

16 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

@brianwahl sheesh ! Those skintones man...they look damn good ! The biggest giveaway that this camera handles skintones incredibly well is the fact that both the darker and lighter complexions in the same shot looked NATURAL. I’ve been looking for a camera that I can get good SOOC footage with because honestly grading can be time consuming and lately I notice clients are becoming more focused on quick turnover times. You think its a good idea to make the switch from Sony to Fuji ? 

Man I am just not seeing what you are seeing Kid. Yeah, the Kids look pretty good I will give you that. On my monitor, yes it is calibrated, it just is muddy looking. No way it looked like that in real life. I know the buildings in the background are mostly gray but they are a drab grey. Not very, hell I don't know the word, exciting looking. Just not my cup of tea. I just am not impressed with this camera other than some B&W stuff I have seen.

But I know it is new, people will get better with it.

[BTM_Pix]

I've just looked at replicating this DR impact on AF on my X-T2 and, unless I'm missing something, you can't change the DR setting when its in video mode.

If you set up two custom profiles, one with DR on 100 and one on DR 400 for example, it always defaults back to DR AUTO when you switch to video mode. (Obviously another of the 'quirks' of the X-T2 is that you can't switch profiles while its in video mode so you have to switch back to stills each time to make the change)

So is the 'bug' here that they actually allow you to change it in video mode on the X-H1 and they should've left it disabled?

[libyea]

On 17/3/2018 at 12:40 PM, libyea said:

Hi there!

I'm considering buiying this one for video purposes.. 

Do you know if unlimited recording 4K is possible with any Power Adapter + external battery USB?

Something like this:

https://www.tethertools.com/product/case-relay-power-bundle/

Or will you need an external recorder to avoid the recording time limit?

If someone have tried some other reliable and/or cheaper solution that would be great to hear about it!

At last, some crazy idea about external recording.. wouldn't it be great to record in our smartphones?? I guess I'm dreaming.. but would it be possible?? 

Just aproved as I'm new in the forum, so lost in the previews pages..

Any advise on this would be very apreciate! 

[Django]

22 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I've just looked at replicating this DR impact on AF on my X-T2 and, unless I'm missing something, you can't change the DR setting when its in video mode.

If you set up two custom profiles, one with DR on 100 and one on DR 400 for example, it always defaults back to DR AUTO when you switch to video mode. (Obviously another of the 'quirks' of the X-T2 is that you can't switch profiles while its in video mode so you have to switch back to stills each time to make the change)

So is the 'bug' here that they actually allow you to change it in video mode on the X-H1 and they should've left it disabled?

No DR200/400 for video is a new XH1 only feature. However it seems to be causing issues with AF-C which surely is a bug.

FYI only DR100 uses on sensor processing, my guess is DR200/400 causes strain to the AF-C off sensor processing hence the struggle.

[kidzrevil]

@Django hmm thats good to know ! Im not a gimbal guy but that helped me understand why people are going ape shit for AF. Can’t MF on a gimbal !  The increase in quality with bitrate is a good sign to me...I think im going to give it another couple months before I decide if im picking one up. One of the things that has been keeping me with my sony is the fact that the iq is awesome, my body doesn’t overheat and there is widespread support for slog not flog. For photography there is a lot of stuff for fuji but flog and fuji in general has little to no support for obvious reasons in the film community. Hopefully that changes within the next few months and we get some good luts made for this thing

@webrunner5 I think the draw for me is because I know how hard it is to grade both light and dark complexions in one shot. If Fuji engineers got that right in camera then that saved me a couple of hours of grading. As far as the image looking unlike real life I wasn’t really paying attention to that. It looked very bright and contrasty on my monitor and that is a look I love. The last thing I want my footage to look like is real life. I think the big draw behind cameras from different manufacturers is their choice in color pallette plus color is subjective and varies dramatically from person to person due to our differences in mental perception and physical makeup of our eyes. Your impression of “real life” colors will look different from the next man’s. Pleasing, vibrant, artistic colors is what I am after.

[libyea]

1 hour ago, brianwahl said:

Here’s some (very slightly) graded Eterna footage shot at 120fps. 

I have a Sony A9 and a6500. I’ve owned an a7S ii and a7R ii. I can get the Sony footage to look this good (color-wise), but it takes a LOT of work, granted I’m no colorist. With the Eterna footage, it’s effortless - literally just a bump in saturation and contrast. 

The dynamic range may not net quite as good, and the slow motion footage may be slightly more prone to aliasing, but color is far more important to me than those things - I believe color has a much more emotional impact when viewing video. 

EDIT: Sorry for the double post of that video. I posted it a few days ago but my post was under moderation (just signed up for this forum), and I see now that it’s just been approved (on the previous page).

It looks amazing to my eyes and I couldn't be more agree with what you say. That's why I'm stocked with Canon, but maybe not for much longer..  

[webrunner5]

22 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

I think the draw for me is because I know how hard it is to grade both light and dark complexions in one shot. If Fuji engineers got that right in camera then that saved me a couple of hours of grading. As far as the image looking unlike real life I wasn’t really paying attention to that. It looked very bright and contrasty on my monitor and that is a look I love. The last thing I want my footage to look like is real life. I think the big draw behind cameras from different manufacturers is their choice in color pallette plus color is subjective and varies dramatically from person to person due to our differences in mental perception and physical makeup of our eyes. Your impression of “real life” colors will look different from the next man’s. Pleasing, vibrant, artistic colors is what I am after.

The kids just look too red to me. But you are right different strokes. It just seems to me Fuji has taken a wrong turn from back in the days of the Fuji Finepix S2 Pro. Now that was color. This new one looks Digital as hell. But to me after the went from CCD sensors they all went down hill. The Original Olympus E1 was just beautiful also, and it was just like 5.1 MP. Very few new cameras other than Canon, have looked very good to me now. Well the Nikon D750 is great color wise. I guess it is their softness and CS that makes it happen with the Canon's..

Now my A7s is just funky looking to be honest, but I like it. So like you said, different strokes.

[BTM_Pix]

3 minutes ago, Django said:

No DR200/400 for video is a new XH1 only feature. However it seems to be causing issues with AF-C which surely is a bug.

FYI only DR100 uses on sensor processing, my guess is DR200/400 causes strain to the AF-C off sensor processing hence the struggle.

Yes, I meant that there must've been a good reason to have left it off the X-T2 and this is probably it !

Not specifically that they knew it would cause an AF issue but that the overall processor impact was too negative.

If thats the case, the quick fix will be an auto disabling of it when in video mode as it is on the X-T2.

Curious about if having IBIS off changes the outcome as well.

Ditto if using the grip with its extra grunt changes it too.

One of the great things about the X-T2 is the degree of AF tuning you can do but that flexibility might also be an achilles heel when it comes to tracing stuff like this.

[Attila Bakos]

I'm still interested if 1080p60 has worse quality on the X-H1 than on the X-T2, if anyone can test that. (There was a test earlier in this topic that showed significantly more moiré on the X-H1.)

[Django]

@BTM_Pix XH1 has double the processing power of XT2. It should be able to handle AF-C @ DR200/400. Hopefully just a firmware fix.

[Matthew Hartman]

2 hours ago, brianwahl said:

Here’s some (very slightly) graded Eterna footage shot at 120fps. 

The dynamic range may not net quite as good.

You could have mitigated the blown out sky by not backlighting your subject matter. Had you simply turned 90° or 180° you  (or had a bounce board) could have brought down your overall exposure and you wouldn't have had such a high contrast ratio. You had golden hour working to your advantage but didn't utilize it. 

You have to be more selective with your staging when working with cameras that have limited dynamic range. It's about knowing your tools and how best to use them, instead of trying to force them to do something they weren't designed to do and then blaming it. 

Please note: I'm using you and this post as a springboard for a teachable moment.