RED and Foxconn to create range of affordable 8K prosumer cinema cameras

[jgharding]

10 hours ago, Laurier said:

And technologies wise I don t think Arri is leading in any ways, sony are by far the leader, but Arri have better branding/heritage and a more artist friendly approach. 

this is an interesting point.

it depends on your definition of "technologies". Sony certainly innovate, and are always coming up with variations in technology, image processing, sensor and memory architecture, absolutely ingenious things every single year that definitely push the boundary of what's possible technologically in terms of size and speed... in terms of innovation, I don't think anyone matches them.

But people don't watch innovation on a screen, and they don't want it getting in the way of a production. Each new Sony camera is full of bizarre processing with crazy acronyms, layers and layers of menus and so on, and the colour is still never very good, it usually feels cool and sharp and a little soul-less. Even the top line and indeed innovative f65 had a very cold and sharp look to it. Check out Oblivion, that's all i Know was shot on it. And they only used it because clinical detail was part of the brief. 

Arri may not have reinvented the wheel, but they made a beautiful sensor designed to have grain and response as close as possible to film. They focussed on beating film and making a direct digital replacement for it. Sure, around that sensor is a tank-like box that eats giant batteries like M&Ms, but once you get the footage back you don't care. That dual-gain architecture makes it SO clean and gives it insane range. You can pull in Log ProRes 422 from an Amira and you'll probably prefer it to your Red footage, raw or no raw, as I always did. It seemed to have more usable skintone range and nicer colour even when very compressed.

And controlling it is so easy. They focused on a simple interface and the image that ends up on screen, not on the spec sheet, and not on selling you a new one every year. 

http://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/tools/alexa_camera_simulator/ 

I've just realised I'm on the verge of sounding like an unbearable Arri fanboi  but really I'm only loyal to a great image. I wouldn't want to run around all day with one too often, though i have... the GH5 is my new fave

[Matthew Hartman]

IN UNEXPECTED MOVE, RED SIGNALS DEAL WITH APPLE INC. TO IMPLEMENT IN-CAMERA EMOJIS!

Cupertino just signed a deal today with illustrious high-end camera manufacturer RED, that would finally give the camera what many of it's users have been clamouring for ages...Emojis! Yes, don't adjust your focus rings folks, I said emoji. Happy face, sad face, meh face and yes, even turd and eggplant too. The whole set, as well as some special RED themed additions. 

Tim Cook, Apple's CEO said today in a press release via Skype with along with executives from RED that this partnership signals innovative ambitions for both companies, and gives it's customers the features they want the most. Cook said, "As the cameras in the iPhone have improved both in terms of in speed and quality over the years it only seems natural that we partner with the company that offers the best-in-class digital imagining, besides our own. That company is clearly RED" 

James Jannard, the CEO of RED and the popular Oakley franchise of the mid 90's said, "That's right Tim, we here at RED are looking for new and interesting ways to better engage our customers, and compete with today's technology and lower our costs to the consumer. What better way than to offer first-class emojis right inside our cameras?

Jannard also mentioned that they reached out to Google and Samsung, but ultimately felt Apple was the logical fit as their two companies believe in similar pricing structures and out-of-the-box user experiences.

When we asked both Cook and Jannard if they had a name in mind for this product Cook quickly jumped in, "We're calling it the Epicon Mini 6K" Both men chuckled sheepishly (and slightly uncomfortably) as I took another awkward sip of my luke warm mint Earl Grey in a paper cup brandished with an Apple and a bite taken out of it.  

The "Epicon Mini 6K" is due to be officially announced some time in mid 2019 according to a later call with representatives from RED.

Regardless of what you may feel about emojis inside of premuim cameras, get ready to set your white balance, peak your focus, adjust your aperture, shutter speed and ISO, and then go ahead and select that happy face. You know you want to. Cook and Jannard agree with you. ☺

 

 

[webrunner5]

16 hours ago, Laurier said:

They have very good brand images and are niche products, manufactured at high cost in western countries but in relatively small workshops compared to Chinese manufacturers.

China is working on throwing everyone out of their country. They only want to have Chinese company's there. So Arri is not going there any time soon. They even want it so Everyone there Has to buy Chinese products only down the road.

That is why Apple made a Bullshit statement that there are going to invest Billions and Billions of dollars in the United States. They Have to, China is throwing them out along with others.

But here in the USA there is beginning to be a Huge kickback about China buying up too many company's here, and they own a Scary amount of the farms in this country right now. So we are seeing the beginning of a giant pissing contest between the two country's.

[Matthew Hartman]

15 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

China is working on throwing everyone out of their country. They only want to have Chinese company's there. So Arri is not going there any time soon. They even want it so Everyone there Has to buy Chinese products only down the road.

That is why Apple made a Bullshit statement that there are going to invest Billions and Billions of dollars in the United States. They Have to, China is throwing them out along with others.

But here in the USA there is beginning to be a Huge kickback about China buying up too many company's here, and they own a Scary amount of the farms in this country right now. So we are seeing the beginning of a giant pissing contest between the two country's.

 

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

IF RED, by extension of Foxconn, produces a $10k 8k camera it's going to force Arri to do the same. This is a good thing for everyone, regardless of budget size. 

 

It won't "force" Arri to do the same. What Arri would do is 5yrs later bring out an 8K camera at twice the cost.  (just look at their 4K cameras and their costs and release dates, my prediction is not unrealistic at all, if anything it is optimistic!)

 

 

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

I'm not sure about this my man. I take the viewpoint that the narrative will be flipped on it's head, in terms of producers budgeting cameras for a shoot. What the production saves in costs by renting 3 cameras for the current price of one they can allocate the rest of budget towards other production costs, which as you know are many. That's a boon for a producer (looking for industry respect) and ultimately the client. Just because a client gives a film a sizeable budget, doesnt mean they want the producer to go hog wild on equipment. It's the producer's job to inform their clients and make their investment count. 

Yes, producers don't want to just "waste" money. No one does! 

But I can also see his point, about producers wanting "prestige" (or "Industry Standard" or "quality" or "proven workflow" or whatever the hell you want to call it), and if RED makes $3K cameras that could possibly potentially harm that. 

However I disagree with him about the scale of impact of this announcement, and how quickly it will happen. 

I feel the impact will be smaller than he thinks, and might take years and years to be felt. So he doesn't need to change decisions made this year (such as buying a Panasonic EVA1 or not) based on this news (then again, he does have 2x RED ONEs, so maybe at his lower end he would feel it faster and worse than someone with say a Dragon).

 

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Haha, lots of shit films are shot on the most expensive Hollywood/Altantawood/Londonwood/Bollywood level cameras. Good films are the exception.?

But you're point is valid and I would add the relentless complaints about comparisions to Sony's high ISO parade. ?

Agreed! Bugs me out no end when people say "but I need that high ISO so I must buy Sony!" as if it is some kind of trump card to the discussion. 

Perhaps these poor people are just coming from a Canon T3i with a kit lens, and feel their biggest problem is poor lowlight and thus must go to the other extreme! Completely missing the point that even a Panasonic G80 with a Panasonic 25mm f1.7 would be a massive massive leap forward for lowlight over their current set up. 

And yeah, tonnes of shit films get shot on Arri/RED/etc (even worked on a few myself....) but at least the cream can still rise to the top and those brands get judged by the quality well shot films instead. But if thousands and thousands of crap films get made with $3K cameras then the crowd of crap could swallow up the exceptions.

 

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Then again, $10k body only is not a cheap investment for most ppl either. Yes, it's cheaper than what the 8k Epic costs right now, but the bar is set way higher than even small profesional productions can afford to purchase outright that need to recoupe short term.

Tricky to say exactly which camera is going to get slashed in cost (and size!) by a third, will it be their top of the line camera, a mid level one... or the likes of a RED Raven? 

As if if they made a camera kinda similar to the Raven but massively cheaper, then you're looking not at a $10K camera kit but a $3K ish one. 

 

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

The article made no mention of any of the addons coming down in price as well. If so, expect serious compromises in build quality and performance. 

Yes, all those accessory/media costs will be key as to how low down in the market RED is reaching. 

This is one area where I really like Kinefinity, not only are their brains much cheaper, but so is everything else! (you can even use normal off the shelf SSDs)

 

 

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

$10k puts the RED in the same bracket as the Sony F5, Canon Cxx, BMD Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k, Panasonic EVA-1, etc. This is not exactly a amateur's bracket. 

Yes and no. Especially if you wait a few years for them to have price drops and enter the secondhand market. (one of the reasons why I disagree with my friend as to how quickly I reckon this will have an impact, as it takes time for new things to filter through....   few items change an industry overnight)

But I know plenty of amateurs with C100/C300/F3/URSA, I even know someone who just finished first year film school and purchased an EVA1!

Heck, even with their current high prices, here is this High Schooler who purchased a Scarlet-W (although yes, we can't call him an amateur, as he worked hard for it!):
 

 

 

5 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

IN UNEXPECTED MOVE, RED SIGNALS DEAL WITH APPLE INC. TO IMPLEMENT IN-CAMERA EMOJIS!

 

LOL! Stealing this

 

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

8K is good for VFX/360º only, but we will probably see it in wedding videos and porn too!

[webrunner5]

VFX/360º in  porn, Yikes! 

[jonpais]

and gear porn too! ?

[Matthew Hartman]

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

VFX/360º in  porn, Yikes! 

You guys do know that this is currently the biggest 360/VR market right? I've worked with several grips, (hehehe) both guys and gals that have side gigs filming porn for this medium. It's just another form of escapism, not to mention quite lucrative. 

Given current political world affairs, I can't say I blame people for wanting to wank their chains a little. Better to squeeze a nut than a trigger. 

[webrunner5]

45 minutes ago, Matthew Hartman said:

You guys do know that this is currently the biggest 360/VR market right? I've worked with several grips, (hehehe) both guys and gals that have side gigs filming porn for this medium. It's just another form of escapism, not to mention quite lucrative. 

Given current political world affairs, I can't say I blame people for wanting to wank their chains a little. Better to squeeze a nut than a trigger. 

Wow I can't imagine it in Porn. How do they hide the people shooting it? Hang it from the ceiling LoL? And yeah I had given some thought shooting Porn years ago with the gear I had, Late 90's. I even had 2 of the most popular Sony Cameras they used at the time for Porn among others. 2 Sony DXC-M7 cameras. My one daughter was in college at the time majoring in Creative Writing so I had a script writer. It was a damn great money maker, but you had to split with the Mafia, and the hell with that LoL. I knew a few of them, and they had NO Fing conscience trust me. Kill you in a heartbeat for 500 bucks.

But in the Cincinnati areas where I lived there were 6 big Colleges, and several smaller ones, so no shortage of talent LoL. I had a lot of models I shot portfolios for that I could have used. Getting people to do it is the least of your problems trust me.

[kye]

On 15/02/2018 at 1:14 PM, IronFilm said:

Heck, even with their current high prices, here is this High Schooler who purchased a Scarlet-W (although yes, we can't call him an amateur, as he worked hard for it!):
 

 

 

Seeing him talking about the RED while running B-roll of the a6000 made me think "Wow - those cameras aren't as large as I thought.....  oh, wait a minute!"

In terms of RED getting into the high-end smartphone game, that's an interesting concept.

Apple has been trying to strangle the market by keeping their entry-level offerings about the same price while simultaneously adding products at the top end:

I haven't heard of many examples of smartphones coming in above Apples flagship phone, but if someone was going to do it, having a RED branded camera in it would sure be a decent strategy.

[IronFilm]

18 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

My one daughter was in college at the time majoring in Creative Writing so I had a script writer.

Making porn with your daughter? 

Awkward!

Well, as my ex would say:
 

Quote

"families that play together stay together"

 

[Matthew Hartman]

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Well, as my ex would say:

"families that play together stay together"

Wrong on so many unspeakable and unholy levels.  

Quote

How do they hide the people shooting it? Hang it from the ceiling LoL? 

Various ways. But it's more of a first person vantage point with the ability to look either 180 or 360 around the environment. So think of the camera man as basically a stationary tripod in the center of the room. Although I doubt one would be more interested in the pen sitting on the desk in the corner rather than the action that's happening front and center. Eh hem. 

 

On 2/18/2018 at 12:33 AM, kye said:

I haven't heard of many examples of smartphones coming in above Apples flagship phone, but if someone was going to do it, having a RED branded camera in it would sure be a decent strategy.

Unfortunately Samsung is hell bent on increasing the prices for their flagship year over year. The S9/+ is rumored to have a price tag of $820-$960. 

[webrunner5]

On 2/18/2018 at 7:51 PM, IronFilm said:

Making porn with your daughter? 

Awkward!

Well, as my ex would say:
 

 

Why not, that way the money stays in the family!  There wasn't, and is, Very few men that write the scripts for Porn Movies.. It would get even more boring, and repetitive pretty quick if men wrote them. 

[kye]

15 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Unfortunately Samsung is hell bent on increasing the prices for their flagship year over year. The S9/+ is rumored to have a price tag of $820-$960. 

Still below the iPhone X 256Gb!

There's a principle I've heard of where you apply the 80/20 rule to product pricing, and it basically says that if you have X customers willing to pay $Y for something, then X/10 of them will be willing to pay $(Y x 10) for something else that's better.  I've been continually surprised that billionaires buy the same phones that the Apple store employees can afford because no-one has designed something way more expensive for them.

[Matthew Hartman]

7 hours ago, kye said:

Still below the iPhone X 256Gb!

There's a principle I've heard of where you apply the 80/20 rule to product pricing, and it basically says that if you have X customers willing to pay $Y for something, then X/10 of them will be willing to pay $(Y x 10) for something else that's better.  I've been continually surprised that billionaires buy the same phones that the Apple store employees can afford because no-one has designed something way more expensive for them.

Mobiado Grand Touch Executive $3,100.00 USD

 

Vertu Aster $7,000 USD

 

Goldvish Eclipse $7,700.00 USD

 

Ready? 

 

Savelli Jardin-Secret White Ice $10,000 USD

 

ARE YOU REALLY READY? 

 

Aston Martin Racing 808 $24,000 USD

 

The rich are not using Apple. All these phones run a custom fork of Android. 

[IronFilm]

22 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Unfortunately Samsung is hell bent on increasing the prices for their flagship year over year. The S9/+ is rumored to have a price tag of $820-$960. 

Ouch! Expensive. 

That is why I like buying older models secondhand, I picked up my new phone for only a couple of hundred bucks, a Samsung S7 Active:
 

 

 

[Jonesy Jones]

Can anyone think of a phone solution for me?

I hate touchscreen. I'm 6'6" with pretty large hands and all these phones are designed for high school girls. I can't hit the buttons with my fingers. 

I've tried going to a flip phone, which I love, but in the end the camera, maps, and dictate to text are invaluable commodities of the smart phone. I always end up back at the smartphone even though I hate the touchscreen. 

Is there a flip phone + smartphone tethering combo where I could have the best of both worlds?

I wish Apple had an 8 bit mode for their iOS where all the buttons were 5 times larger. I could care less how pretty the OS looks. I just want to be able to hit the intended button 100% of time.  Is that too much to ask? 

Way off topic. Waaaaaay off topic. Probably wrong forum altogether. It's just that all the talk of phones and new phones constantly reminds me that NO ONE has delivered a usable phone since 2007. 

[BTM_Pix]

49 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Can anyone think of a phone solution for me?

I hate touchscreen. I'm 6'6" with pretty large hands and all these phones are designed for high school girls. I can't hit the buttons with my fingers. 

I've tried going to a flip phone, which I love, but in the end the camera, maps, and dictate to text are invaluable commodities of the smart phone. I always end up back at the smartphone even though I hate the touchscreen. 

 

I wish Apple had an 8 bit mode for their iOS where all the buttons were 5 times larger. I could care less how pretty the OS looks. I just want to be able to hit the intended button 100% of time.  Is that too much to ask? 

 

Maybe one of the custom launchers might work for you?

They're primarily designed for seniors but they're equally practical for de-cluttering and making things more useful for those of us who only use a few apps.

https://www.maketecheasier.com/best-android-launchers-for-senior-visually-impaired-users/
 

As for hybrids, the BlackBerry Key One gives you a good option of Android and real keyboard.