Sony a7 III discussion

[tellure]

As much as I want 4k60p and as much as some of the competition is doing it so I'm sure Sony is feeling the pressure, I'm not super optimistic we'll actually get it, given that they can't even get 30p without cropping on the A7III.  That does not bode well for going all the way to 60p at 4K.  I'm guessing maybe we'll get a higher bitrate and maybe 10bit..

[Django]

7 minutes ago, jonpais said:

But if an a7s III had electronic ND filters and 4K 60p, wouldn’t it also be competing with the FS5?

not if it remains 8-bit 420. FS5 now ships with raw upgrade too. anyways electronic ND imo would make the most sense on a lowlight monster like A7S series, especially considering the minimum 1600 ISO for S-Log.

[Robert Collins]

An electronic variable ND filter would be a great feature but I read somewhere that Sony engineers said there wasnt enough room for one in an A7 body.

[jonpais]

That could be true, but Fuji couldn’t have IBIS either. ☺️

[Django]

I'm sure those wizard engineers at Sony could figure out.. speaking of Fuji they well managed to crunch a built-in selectable 3 stop ND in the tiny X100 series..

[aldolega]

I imagine it would be much easier to build an ND into a fixed-lens camera as you could locate the ND between the lens elements, or at least a lot closer to the rear element, as you don't have a mount and contacts to deal with. And don't the X100's have a leaf shutter? If so that's even more room to work with.

If they do an ND I can only see it being fixed, as there definitely isn't room in the body (even the bigger third-gen) for a 36x24mm filter to swing over away from the sensor. And I definitely I don't see them going to a different body, or handicapping their low-light model with a fixed ND that's always eating up two stops of sensitivity.

I also can't see Sony upstaging the FS5 in any serious way... compressed-to-hell 4K60, perhaps, but not 10-bit or NDs. That is, of course, unless their huge NAB booth this year is for announcing the FS5II. Then the A7sIII could follow at Photokina...

But as others have said... can Sony even DO 4K60 in the A7 body without it combusting? They don't have a single other consumer camera of any type with an LSI that can do 4K60.

[Beritar]

On 26/03/2018 at 11:10 PM, Young said:

There is something to be said about the A7III that goes beyond specs – I own the A7III and I own the A7rIII and I used to own the GH5 and after som extensive testing I must say the A7III is lacking. It's a fine camera, certainly at the price point. Small but by no means insignificant things make it less useful to me however. For starters the 4K full frame may be very detailed and sharp, but is plagued by a weird shimmer and a subtle stuttering when moving the camera and it seems to me it has more moiré than the A7RIII, barcode artifacts notwithstanding. I also find that the pixel binned 4K full frame readout from the A7rIII is more pleasant to the eyes and I think it has to do with better motion cadence, less rolling shutter and more efficient IBIS (that 0.5 step makes a big difference in real world usage without stabilized lenses). Not saying the A7III is not a good video camera, but I do prefer the image produced by the rIII. It would be interesting to hear if someone agrees/disagrees. I know the camera isn't available yet in the US, but here in Sweden and the rest of Europe it's been in stores for some time now.

I think you're right about the A7III stuttering. 

 

[Simon Young]

@Beritar I think that video was shot in 1080 60p, it’s worse in 4K, especially the strange shimmering thing.

[webrunner5]

17 hours ago, aldolega said:

I also can't see Sony upstaging the FS5 in any serious way... compressed-to-hell 4K60, perhaps, but not 10-bit or NDs. That is, of course, unless their huge NAB booth this year is for announcing the FS5II. Then the A7sIII could follow at Photokina...

But as others have said... can Sony even DO 4K60 in the A7 body without it combusting? They don't have a single other consumer camera of any type with an LSI that can do 4K60.

I really think since the GH5s has come out, I think Panasonic has thrown down the gauntlet to say on paper there really is not a need for a Sony FS5, hell even the EVA1, Arri Micro, etc. in a sense. If Panny added a few more features, ND filters, Raw what else on paper do you need on a small form factor camera? And with a SB on the GH5s you are past the s35 size. The GH series has a big enough body to support Raw, ND, well not sure about that.

I think the trend is going Really small instead of sort of small like a FS5, etc. And I think it is driven more by Gimbals and Drones to be honest. The days of Having to Have a 20 pound camera are over. I admit by the time you rig out a small camera it looks like Frankenstein, but so does a Arri Alexa in full shooting trim.

[Django]

 The Bloom has spoken.

[Robert Collins]

2 hours ago, Django said:

 The Bloom has spoken.

Interesting he says that the video is slightly better on the A7iii than the A7riii. I guess he means the FF 4k video.

[scotchtape]

Decent colors (to me) here

Choppy with lots of motion though.  

[tellure]

Damn.. there does seem to be a ton of stutter / choppyness in the motion in that video.  Hopefully someone will do a side-by-side with the A73 vs. the A7R3 or even the R2 at various fps / shutter settings and nail down what is going on here.

[ThomHaig]

Yeah, that stuttering motion is not nice at all! You'd almost think the footage was interpreted at an incorrect fps, but I highly doubt that's the case 

[Attila Bakos]

I'm not sure it's a good idea to judge motion cadence by looking at videos that were most likely shot with very high shutter speeds.

[jonpais]

Not a single review of the thousands I’ve read or watched ever mentioned motion cadence - only in these pages, where people claim to see uneven movement everywhere. I’ve never heard an experienced filmmaker mention it either. Nor have I ever seen marketing boasting of superior motion cadence. There must be a half dozen reasons why footage doesn’t look right - many having nothing at all to do with the camera. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, just that I’ve never seen an instance of it. In the past, I’ve even uploaded videos in the wrong frame rate and nobody even blinked. I could have inserted a frame of squirrels munching on acorns every twenty-four frames and I doubt anyone would notice. ? Two common reasons for jerky motion are judder when panning, which can happen with the best of cameras; and breaking the 180 degree rule. I’ve also noticed it when using pan mode on my gimbal. And afaik, it can also be due to the monitor. And various other causes unrelated to the camera itself. I would however be very interested in seeing a side-by-side test of two cameras recording the same scene, one with poor motion cadence, the other with good motion cadence, to see whether I can notice any difference, because up till now, we just have anecdotal evidence. No need to create a new video - thousands of side-by-side comparisons already exist on YT - maybe someone can find one where they can see a difference in motion cadence.

[BasiliskFilm]

On 02/04/2018 at 1:22 PM, jonpais said:

Not a single review of the thousands I’ve read or watched ever mentioned motion cadence - only in these pages, where people claim to see uneven movement everywhere. I’ve never heard an experienced filmmaker mention it either. Nor have I ever seen marketing boasting of superior motion cadence. There must be a half dozen reasons why footage doesn’t look right - many having nothing at all to do with the camera. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, just that I’ve never seen an instance of it. In the past, I’ve even uploaded videos in the wrong frame rate and nobody even blinked. I could have inserted a frame of squirrels munching on acorns every twenty-four frames and I doubt anyone would notice. ? Two common reasons for jerky motion are judder when panning, which can happen with the best of cameras; and breaking the 180 degree rule. I’ve also noticed it when using pan mode on my gimbal. And afaik, it can also be due to the monitor. And various other causes unrelated to the camera itself. I would however be very interested in seeing a side-by-side test of two cameras recording the same scene, one with poor motion cadence, the other with good motion cadence, to see whether I can notice any difference, because up till now, we just have anecdotal evidence. No need to create a new video - thousands of side-by-side comparisons already exist on YT - maybe someone can find one where they can see a difference in motion cadence.

I think you are probably right that it is a bit of a myth that cameras have an intrinsic "motion cadence". There are a range of problems with shooting motion: incorrect frame rate conversion, wrong shutter speed, rolling shutter artefacts, jittery lens/sensor stabilisation; some of these come in the class of user error, or can be avoided by the skilled operator. Once these are ruled out, most cameras actually record motion in a very similar way, and I would be surprised if many could spot the difference at 24 fps.

[ntblowz]

Currently it have problems with flickering on 4K 25p, on 24p and 30p seems to be no problem?

No response from Sony atm.

https://***URL removed***/forums/thread/4263725?page=11

 

 

 

[Attila Bakos]

It seems those blinking pixels mentioned in this thread will be fixed with the new 1.01 firmware, which is already downloadable:

• Resolves an issue where blinking pixels may appear at bottom edge of the camera setting and with certain lenses, especially during XAVC S 4K (PAL 25p) recording
• Resolves a rare issue where the touch panel cannot be operated
• Improves overall stability of the camera

[Mark Romero 2]

3 hours ago, Attila Bakos said:

It seems those blinking pixels mentioned in this thread will be fixed with the new 1.01 firmware, which is already downloadable:

• Resolves an issue where blinking pixels may appear at bottom edge of the camera setting and with certain lenses, especially during XAVC S 4K (PAL 25p) recording
• Resolves a rare issue where the touch panel cannot be operated
• Improves overall stability of the camera

Good to hear this. Thanks.