Sony a7 III discussion

[Inazuma]

36 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

Yeah I like the S&Q mode as well. It is very easy to create a nice output, slomo or timelapses. Just keep in mind that if you need the highest quality then the normal 120/1080p uses ~100mbps whereas the S&Q mode uses ~60mbps. 

Ah I was wondering why it looked quite compressed

[BasiliskFilm]

21 hours ago, jonpais said:

Then how can Panasonic offer unlimited recording?

I think you pay the extra tax. Panasonic assume most folks are buying for video or hybrid use, if you were just shooting stills you wouldn't need the GH5.

[jonpais]

44 minutes ago, BasiliskFilm said:

I think you pay the extra tax. Panasonic assume most folks are buying for video or hybrid use, if you were just shooting stills you wouldn't need the GH5.

When you know for sure, let us know. Meanwhile, I’ll take that as an ‘I don’t know, so I’ll just make stuff up as I go along’.

[Inazuma]

@jonpais unlimited recording is only offered on the GH5 afaik. And its because they pay the extra european tax

[BTM_Pix]

Its definitely a real thing if it the GH5 has come into the EU legitimately.

Digital cameras (EU Code 8525803000) have 0% tariff but anything that can record video for 30 minutes (EU Code 8525809190) has a 3.3% tariff.

If it can record for more than 30 minutes and has a video input capability (EU Code 8525809900) then it has a 7% tariff.

Both of those figures are far reduced from what they used to be and it was the latter one that caused a stink with the DV cameras as the firewire input had to be disabled for EU models to avoid the extra duty which was 14% at the time.

Both of those tariffs will be reduced to 2.5% and 3.5% respectively in July of this year.

So if its here and it can record 30 mins or more then the duty has been paid and Panasonic have either absorbed it into the price or passed it on. Its probably a bit of both as they will get some cost savings from not having to create and support different firmwares.

Of course for those of us in the UK all of this will be a thing of the past from next year and we can merrily capture our demise on film in unrestricted chunks while waving our blue passports and tending to the enormous hole in our foot where we've shot ourselves.

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

The UE defending the non-existing european camera producers with unrequested taxes. Or are they defending ARRI Alexas??

[BTM_Pix]

The tariffs pre-date the Alexa - and digital film cameras in general - by many years to be fair. It was for European broadcast manufacturers like Thomson and Philips to compete with the Japanese and US manufacturers.

The upper rate was/is a leftover from the VCR days.

[JurijTurnsek]

But the meager 3% and 7% tariffs shouldn't be an excuse to limit a7SIII to 30 minutes ... it makes more sense for the "budget" a7III variation. Or they could at least offer a paid FW upgrade for the few that absolutely need it.

[jonpais]

51 minutes ago, JurijTurnsek said:

But the meager 3% and 7% tariffs shouldn't be an excuse to limit a7SIII to 30 minutes ... it makes more sense for the "budget" a7III variation. Or they could at least offer a paid FW upgrade for the few that absolutely need it.

overheating.

[JurijTurnsek]

Time to google results with the 30min limit removed then. I seem to remember people had some impressive running times.

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The tariffs pre-date the Alexa - and digital film cameras in general - by many years to be fair. It was for European broadcast manufacturers like Thomson and Philips to compete with the Japanese and US manufacturers.

The upper rate was/is a leftover from the VCR days.

I had to buy a Mini-DV walkman because in Europe we couldn't have DV-in enabled through Firewire. I love the idea of UE, but hate how it has been implemented. 

[ntblowz]

1 hour ago, JurijTurnsek said:

Time to google results with the 30min limit removed then. I seem to remember people had some impressive running times.

Only for Camera with APP,  Cameras like A9/A7RIII/A7III dont have APP anymore, so no more 30min hack to them. 

 

I personally bought a bunch of those app, the timelapse app is what I used the most, sucks you can't use it on new Sony cam anymore argh.

[JurijTurnsek]

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

Only for Camera with APP,  Cameras like A9/A7RIII/A7III dont have APP anymore, so no more 30min hack to them. 

 

I personally bought a bunch of those app, the timelapse app is what I used the most, sucks you can't use it on new Sony cam anymore argh.

Yes, of course. I was just refuting the claim that the a7 series were overheating, which they haven't since the second generation. So the third generation of a7S should be more than capable of recording longer clips and the limit could be removed.

[jonpais]

15 minutes ago, JurijTurnsek said:

Yes, of course. I was just refuting the claim that the a7 series were overheating, which they haven't since the second generation. So the third generation of a7S should be more than capable of recording longer clips and the limit could be removed.

I never claimed the current a7 series of cameras do overheat.

But I have my doubts that they can record indefinitely without overheating.

Longer clips is not the same as unlimited.

[sanveer]

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

overheating.

Actually the new A7iii seems to have a new processor and pipeline, thereby eliminating issues with overheating almost completely (according to Sony). I am guessing it also have an advanced heatsink built in. That is one the reasons Sony held its launch event in the dessert, to show that it's resistant to overheating and reasonably well weather sealed. 

If Sony is not providing a charger in the box with the A7iii, they obviously are cutting corners with things like taxes too. But considering that full frame sensors are Four Times the size of M43, the A7iii does offer a lot of bang for the buck.

 

Sony and Panasonic both have their strong and weak points.

Panasonic's stills (photos) could be much better (14-bit) and their autofocus in video is still a joke. Plus their 12 stop limitation in VLog-L (effectively pushing everything around 11.5 stops and below), is terrible and preventing the camera from realising it's full potential for video (Panasonic's main selling point). RAW won't be introduced because they don't want to destroy everything above the GH Series, but they can certainly do with more dynamic range in video.  

Sony could be generous with their recording time limit and have 10-bit (or 8-bit) 4-2-2 internal recording, apart from better colour science. It's just that the A7s series has sold well regardless of the 4-2-0 codec so they don't or disnt care. Plus their lenses are priced pretty high (especially their G Master lenses). 

 

[Don Kotlos]

On 5/15/2018 at 5:51 PM, Inazuma said:

Ah I was wondering why it looked quite compressed

The video bellow compares the two modes. That guy is confused though between the recording bitrate of S&Q which for 120p is ~60mbps and the final bitrate of the slomo file which ends up at ~12mbps (60/5). If someone intends to grade the footage then I would advise them to use the normal 120p setting from the movie menu, but for quick turnaround videos the S&Q should be good enough. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfYD9CPkgdk

[Inazuma]

I found something out quite useful today. You can actually change the steadyshot focal length WHILST recording when using manual lenses. Useful if using a zoom lens.

[Elv_Vin]

On 17/05/2018 at 9:34 PM, sanveer said:

Actually the new A7iii seems to have a new processor and pipeline, thereby eliminating issues with overheating almost completely (according to Sony). I am guessing it also have an advanced heatsink built in. That is one the reasons Sony held its launch event in the dessert, to show that it's resistant to overheating and reasonably well weather sealed. 

If Sony is not providing a charger in the box with the A7iii, they obviously are cutting corners with things like taxes too. But considering that full frame sensors are Four Times the size of M43, the A7iii does offer a lot of bang for the buck.

 

Sony and Panasonic both have their strong and weak points.

Panasonic's stills (photos) could be much better (14-bit) and their autofocus in video is still a joke. Plus their 12 stop limitation in VLog-L (effectively pushing everything around 11.5 stops and below), is terrible and preventing the camera from realising it's full potential for video (Panasonic's main selling point). RAW won't be introduced because they don't want to destroy everything above the GH Series, but they can certainly do with more dynamic range in video.  

Sony could be generous with their recording time limit and have 10-bit (or 8-bit) 4-2-2 internal recording, apart from better colour science. It's just that the A7s series has sold well regardless of the 4-2-0 codec so they don't or disnt care. Plus their lenses are priced pretty high (especially their G Master lenses). 

 

We have to remember that there is no perfect camera in this world. There will always be limitations to what a camera of one generation, give or take differing technologies that is given priority for a production model. Market segmentation is also another area for a business to protect if they were to be viewed as a long term investment for shareholders. So we can’t have everything. If that happens, one day we’ll have just one camera that we will not upgrade for the next decade. And judging by how the digital imaging segment is shrinking due to smartphone imaging technology, most consumers won’t even think twice about switching phones rather than cameras. That leaves an even smaller market for digital imaging device manufacturers like Sony and Panasonic. It’s a death spiral. For example,  if you want to make sure your native lenses stay relevant in the future, sometimes letting the camera bodies take the brunt of being disposable  is not a bad thing. Because investment always require a sacrifice one way or another. And it just happens that lenses are the better investment. (Just my point of view over a shot of whisky?)

[jonpais]

so deep. maybe cut back on the boozing...

[Kieran]

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

so deep. maybe cut back on the boozing...

What exactly is your problem, creepy robot-voice man?