Sony a7 III discussion

[Inazuma]

The different behaviour being that you spent 1/3 of the price of OEM?

[jonpais]

The shop threw in a free battery when I bought the camera, so I’m not paying a single dime more for anything. Not all cheap Chinese knock-offs are any good, and Sony can’t inspect each and every one to make sure they’re not going to swell up or whatever. Panasonic, Canon, Blackmagic and other companies do the same. If it’s a huge problem, just don’t update the firmware. lol

[Inazuma]

So my generic knock-off is still working fine. Displaying battery life and everything. You're right, there is probably cause for concern on the build quality of these cheap batteries but I've yet to ever actually hear of one swelling up or exploding *touch wood*

[jonpais]

Riddle - how is it that Sony's able to approach Canon's color science while at the same time being much more accurate? 

[noone]

I have never got that either.

I have found that in many instances Sony colours are more accurate to reality and in many cases people prefer Sony colours in blind tests.

I think it comes down to People getting used to Canon and Nikon colours more over many years and liking what they knew.

I have never had any issue with any brand for colours for stills and for video, I just use what I get from the camera.

Besides, there is always a much bigger difference in what I see between the various computers, monitors, TVs I look at stuff on.

[jonpais]

An excellent discussion about all the new lens mounts (without all the fanboy hysteria).

Do the new mounts mean that Nikon and Canon’s older mounts are by definition inferior?

Will Sony have to go back to the drawing board and design a new mount from scratch?

Has anyone in this forum ever felt that their current FF camera lens mount was holding back their creativity?

Lastly, will anyone be able to afford the new 3-pound f/0.95 lenses made possible by the newer mounts? 

[wolf33d]

On 10/14/2018 at 7:47 PM, jonpais said:

 

Do the new mounts mean that Nikon and Canon’s older mounts are by definition inferior?

Will Sony have to go back to the drawing board and design a new mount from scratch?

Has anyone in this forum ever felt that their current FF camera lens mount was holding back their creativity?

Lastly, will anyone be able to afford the new 3-pound f/0.95 lenses made possible by the newer mounts? 

1st question:  it’s just mainly the flange distance making it harder to have wide angle light lenses

2nd : no

3rd : no

4: afford yes. But for a 2kg piece of glass that only manual focus, absolutely not

[Inazuma]

I didn't know the Noct was manual focus until now. What are they playing at?! May as well just buy the existing f0.95 lenses

[Laurier]

Got mine couple of days ago.

The AF is really impressive ( coming from a a7rii) both in photo and video.
A lot more video friendly features as well, like gamma view assist and fully custom zebra ( now you can more or less use it as a replacement for false color for Slog exposure)
The big negative point for me is the temporal noise reduction in video, it don t look too bad in Slog-2, but then I get a lot of color noise from poor compression , I ordered a Ninja V so hopefully that will solve the issue.

Colors are very decent as well, especially if you use S-log with ACES , and actually look great with filmconvert.

I will also use it for street photography for my photo project https://www.instagram.com/ccinis/ , I did shoot a lot with the  original A7 and the zeiss 35mm 2.8, but on the A7iii ,from my initial test the autofocus is incredible, by the time I orient the camera toward the subject the face detection already kicked in and got the subject in focus, that will be fantastic for discreet shoots taken from the hips.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

On 10/10/2018 at 12:39 AM, webrunner5 said:

I just don't see a PK4 fitting into many peoples workflow to be honest. It ain't going to mix nice with many cameras. Who has many BMD higher end cameras? By the time you rig it it is going to look like a full blown Cine camera. I think it will be a great learning tool, and have damn good output, but for what, web bragging rights. What paid jobs you really going to use it for? Weddings, Sports, Docs, Corporate, hiking, Kids running around? Ehh don't think so.

Fun fact, I was just working with NFL Films for a Packers half time show, and all four cameras on set were Ursa Mini Pros. Talking to the camera crew, they were all very excited about the Pocket 4K for tricky rigs (such as Snorriccam) and, more importantly, low light. The 4.6k is a dog in low light, so a cheap camera that matches easily and delivers good results at high ISO makes a great complement. 

Food for thought.

[webrunner5]

22 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Fun fact, I was just working with NFL Films for a Packers half time show, and all four cameras on set were Ursa Mini Pros. Talking to the camera crew, they were all very excited about the Pocket 4K for tricky rigs (such as Snorriccam) and, more importantly, low light. The 4.6k is a dog in low light, so a cheap camera that matches easily and delivers good results at high ISO makes a great complement. 

Food for thought.

Oh wow that is a nice match for them. Sure if you own a Ursa you are buying the PK4. Match made in heaven. And for the person that works at a slower pace the PK4 is going to be great if you are good at grading, coloring. It is a gift like I have said for the money. But it is going to frustrate the living hell out of a lot of people.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

31 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh wow that is a nice match for them. Sure if you own a Ursa you are buying the PK4. Match made in heaven. And for the person that works at a slower pace the PK4 is going to be great if you are good at grading, coloring. It is a gift like I have said for the money. But it is going to frustrate the living hell out of a lot of people.

I legitimately don't know why it would.

Lots of dynamic range, so easy to light and flexibility when you can't control the light. Good at high ISOs, so not much penalty for not bringing the right amount or size of lights--or even not being able to light at all. RAW and ProRes, so all the flexibility you could want in grading. One of the easiest camera brands to color, as well as having an easy, established workflow for LUTing your way to a simple r709 output. ProRes and CinemaDNG are both dead simple workflows now. Endless lens options. Three different storage media options. 

The only thing I can think is battery life and non-articulating screen, but an external battery adds very little to your rig, and you'd want an additional monitor for production work either way. Plus you can always strip down a small camera if needed; you can't disassemble a big camera down into a little one. 

I could see this doing tons of doc, wedding, corporate, narrative, and all manner of broadcast. Hiking and kids don't pay either way, so...not entirely sure where you're coming from here.

[Laurier]

10 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

I legitimately don't know why it would.

Lots of dynamic range, so easy to light and flexibility when you can't control the light. Good at high ISOs, so not much penalty for not bringing the right amount or size of lights--or even not being able to light at all. RAW and ProRes, so all the flexibility you could want in grading. One of the easiest camera brands to color, as well as having an easy, established workflow for LUTing your way to a simple r709 output. ProRes and CinemaDNG are both dead simple workflows now. Endless lens options. Three different storage media options. 

The only thing I can think is battery life and non-articulating screen, but an external battery adds very little to your rig, and you'd want an additional monitor for production work either way. Plus you can always strip down a small camera if needed; you can't disassemble a big camera down into a little one. 

I could see this doing tons of doc, wedding, corporate, narrative, and all manner of broadcast. Hiking and kids don't pay either way, so...not entirely sure where you're coming from here.

Because we live in age of Sensor stabilization, good battery life and good video autofocus.
That convenience over raw quality output.
I had a ursa mini 4.6k and when I got a a7rii initially for photo... well I sold the 4.6k.

I think you are right about the pocket 4k as B/crash cam for URSA pro users, but very few production run that setup, I always see canon C series or FS series for small/mid sized jobs, I only saw a handfull of blackmagic on production and is usually a random single guy run and gunning , not a small crew. 

I see the pocket the same way I see people speaking about LOG profiles, sounds cool on paper, but most user will have no clue how to use it properly, will end up blaming the camera because it s relatively cheap. 

Personally I think RAW is overkill for the majority of work I do ( prores-raw sound much more workable) so I always end up in prores LT or standard. 

I had seriously considered the pocket 4k as well , but then I got a a7iii + ninja V,
Being able to focus track faces, with a steady shoulder rigged  135mm at 2.8 in full frame, without a focus puller is priceless IMO.
In the end I have a much higher production value for a single operator with this kind of equipement than any traditional cinema camera .

[webrunner5]

Yeah I think peoples frustration will be more camera oriented than Editing. Even the Media cost are going to be expensive. I am not too sold on using a SSD to do this. A Tye C cable is really easy to pull out. And it stupid looking having cables running all over to get snagged. And CFast cards are Big money to get rid of the problem. Piss poor battery life, not really a problem for me, you need to change the media by then anyways.  But the average person is going to say WTH!. And no continuous AF that will suck for everyone like it or not. No tilt screen, on a tripod that is going to be a bitch in sunny conditions. It is going to be like Really owning a Cine camera. It is not even close to a Hybrid that most people Probably Really need. What do you mean little piss ass mp Photos LoL.

So I can just see a lot of regular people just say piss on this I am going to get a A7 III or a X-T3. And I will buy one for 750 bucks used. Bingo for me. And then I get to cuss like hell also LoL.

[Laurier]

I just did some test with the ninjaV + A7iii in slog2.
Even if it s still 8 bits,I feel there is quite a massive difference in image quality, a lot less compression artifact and color noise ( not perfect but absolutely usable )
The colors and motion blur also look a lot better.

[heart0less]

Would you be as kind as to share some sample footage? 

I was looking for an external monitor, maybe I'll go for Ninja V instead. 

[Laurier]

1 hour ago, heart0less said:

Would you be as kind as to share some sample footage? 

I was looking for an external monitor, maybe I'll go for Ninja V instead. 

I will try to shoot something interesting over the week end 

[Mike Mgee]

I had to create an account to respond to your comments regarding the A7III and the Ninja V.

Quote

there is quite a massive difference in image quality, a lot less compression artifact and color noise

Oh nah. That's a negative. It can definitely not be classified as massive. I have both an a7III and an Atomos Inferno..while there is a difference, it is negligible. Here are some examples here and here comparing XAVC-S vs ProRes .  And once you upload the video online and youtube has its way with it, the difference with compression artifacts are even more negligible. The money you invest in an external recorder for 8bit Slog2 would be much better invested in an other things.

Quote

Being able to focus track faces, with a steady shoulder rigged  135mm at 2.8 in full frame, without a focus puller is priceless IMO.

Yah. If you are shooting 4k...you can't really track faces reliably. The LCD on the back of the A7III goes off and you get no green box on the external monitor. Sure it "tracks" but in more of a "I pray this works" sorta way. 

[heart0less]

The only unknown is the white balance on both cameras. Sean mentioned using a white card to properly set it, but this doesn't have to mean that it was set the same. 

 

Besides, have anyone heard about this C / M / Y correlation regarding skin tones? 

[Laurier]

On 10/26/2018 at 9:40 PM, Mike Mgee said:

I had to create an account to respond to your comments regarding the A7III and the Ninja V.

Oh nah. That's a negative. It can definitely not be classified as massive. I have both an a7III and an Atomos Inferno..while there is a difference, it is negligible. Here are some examples here and here comparing XAVC-S vs ProRes .  And once you upload the video online and youtube has its way with it, the difference with compression artifacts are even more negligible. The money you invest in an external recorder for 8bit Slog2 would be much better invested in an other things.

Yah. If you are shooting 4k...you can't really track faces reliably. The LCD on the back of the A7III goes off and you get no green box on the external monitor. Sure it "tracks" but in more of a "I pray this works" sorta way. 

Except that slog is unworkable internally ,you get color noise and compression artifact all over the place, so If you want to have all the DR that the sensor have to offer you need to record externally .
I do a lot of post work and when you start to move things around, it s immediately visible .
The youtube argument is a nonsense, because even in cinema your bitrate is limited to 250 Mb/s, it s about having some room in post to get your image where you want it before you compress it again.
But my work sometime get screened at festivals so to me it matters.

The motion blur look very different as well.

The examples you sent me have little motion to them.
But yeah, if you shoot cine4 and upload straight to youtube, that make less sense. 

 

I disagree with the face tracking comment , I shoot with Batis and it work very well, way better than any focus puller would manage on large format/long lens/large aperture , I do MV and fashion mostly and I can t always know where the model/performer is going to move ( and if it s dancer, I want to let him/her do his/her things).

Beside on a shoulder rig you can see both the rear screen and the recorder so you know when it lock in, the screen don t go off if you setup the video signal/trigger properly.

You need to go to the menu and force 4k 24fps out then deactivate the internal recording , and activate to control trigger over hdmi.

If you leave the default parameter, the screen go black and you loose face tracking.